[sudo-discuss] 9/16 Meeting Minutes

[Pete Forsyth]

Thank you for taking care of the minutes, Jenny! Looks like this
"secretary" gig ain't gonna be so hard ;)
-Pete

[[User:Peteforsyth]] on the wiki

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 10:49 PM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas at gmail.com> wrote:

> Recorded for posterity at:
> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2015-09-16
>
> *Sudo Room Meeting 16 Sep 2015*
>
> =Intros=
> * Icebreaker: How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could
> chuck wood?
> * Patrick Xu: 2
> * Robb: As much as he had time to chuck
> * David Estrada: It's bodyweight, conservative estimate
> * Sigma: Depends on how much meth they've had
> * Romy: Why are woodchucks chucking wood to begin with, and why do they
> necessarily have to chuck wood at all? Is this an intelligence test? Am I
> part of an invisible algorithm, where my answers are being evaluated to
> avoid being thrown to the bottom of the pile?
> * rmt_daniel: Chuck is the diminutive of Charles.  Save the trees. :)
> * Matt: One food not bombs truck-full and three space pods full, as that's
> how much wood this chuck and his chuck-friends have chucked today.
> * yar: the only way to find out is through a massive controlled study of
> woodchuck wood chucking
> * jenny: doesn't matter to me as long as the damn woodchuck is happy
> * juul: Even if a woodchuck could chuck wood and even if a woodchuck would
> chuck wood, should a woodchuck chuck wood?
>
> =Announcements=
> * sudo-humans is borked, specifically that important part where you sign
> up to pay dues
> ** What is the exact issue? Can you describe it, provide a screenshot, or
> a url? For how long now has this issue occurred? Any other information?
> ** Waiting for information
> *** jenny: don't know where the logs are. log in, go to your profile, then
> click edit -> edit recurring payment. blank page. mewp. juul & cap'n morgan
> are looking into it
> * Rent party on Saturday
> ** You should come, you should help - Sat 9/19 @ 10am - 8pm
> https://omnicommons.org/rentparty
> ** Matt will sell his heart out over anything you identify (and remove
> from sudo room!) as "rummage"!!!!!!111
> ** Need to raise $5000 before the end of the month
>
> =Finances=
> * Paid October rent early to help buffer Omni's waning bank account.
> * Will need to pay imminently: $400 501c3 application filing fee, roughly
> $350 in shared utilities for September
> * After October rent, we currently have $976.49 in our account + $211.54
> in Paypal/Gratipayments that's currently in transit to our account =
> $1,188.03
> * Mid-August to Mid-September income:
> ** $1,064 in PayPal donations, weekly Gratipay payouts dwindling from $412
> (Aug 20) to $130 (Sep 10). Some members also pay their dues through PayPal.
> ** Is due to not a full 30 days?
> ** $2,215 in Stripe donations, with a $1K abberant one-time donation =
> ~$1,215 coming in monthly from Stripe. Let's try to get more people using
> sudo-humans and aim for $2K as the next milestone!
> *** Currently 29 members are signed up for recurring donations via
> sudo-humans, though there are 51 members in the system.
> ** Total income during this period (15 Aug - 16 Sep) - $3,279 but $2,279
> in regular donations so not quite breaking even atm
>
> =New Members=
> * New Member Script: https://sudoroom.org/wiki/New_Member_Script
>
> === david ===
> * David would like to become a new member:
> ** Been here a few days, working on javascript
> ** Like it here
> ** How did you find: Heard from a friend. Noisebridge also came up.
> ** Why: Excited about javascript community, and the makerspace community.
> Hardware
> ** Learn: More javascript
> ** Teach: More javascript
> ** Plan to abolish (10w): Abolish the world, nuke the world.
> ** End planet troubles (10w): See previous answer
> ** Plan to ensure freedom(10w): Open source annihilation, everything is
> open source.
> ** Know about sudo?: Subscribe to hacker ethics, all that jazz, everything
> open, open firewalls. Likes #6 alot.
> ** Know about history?: Heard only been around for about a year.
> *** correct answer is 4 :) maybe should write a history page..
> ** Know about SOS?: Reading
> ** Know about Safe space?: Also reading
> ** Been banned?: No
> ** Cop/etc/cat: No, no, no, not decided on status of cat.
> ** Happy: Getting in the zone, flow states, whatever gets me in the moment.
> ** 20+3: 23
> ** Captcha?: I have no idea
>
> * Robb: I like NB encourages bribes.i was joking,
> * Matt: Know a place where you have to farm for hours before becoming
> possible member. (serfdom?)
> * rmt_daniel: sefdom, new word for me (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom).
> * jenny: erm, 'nuke the world'?
> ** yar: at least it's slightly better than the 'nuke the middle east'
> people. but still. 'throw up your hands' at best, 'white supremacy is human
> nature' at worst.
>
> ==Pondering==
> * 9/2 - 9/30: Benji
> * 8/25 - 9/23: Brendan - pondering ends next week
>
> = Proposals =
> * Quorum is unlocked/supercharged
>
> ==Liberation Ministries revised proposal for 'active non-member
> participation'==
> * Full proposal:
> https://omnicommons.org/pipermail/consensus/2015-September/000638.html
> ** https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCTmZqcEV2F8mRiIO1eLbzQ
> * what is the longest trial period Sudoroom can consense on? 1 month? 3
> months?
> ** yar: 2-3 months kind of sucks because it puts them in limbo right
> around christmas and new years which is a season they are probably doing
> more work than usual. Oct 1 - Feb 1 might make more sense. +1 good point
> ** Patrick: Would give them a powerful opportunity to shine going through
> the Christmas season.
> ** Matt: Everyone of the folks who shared a contention isn't here, except
> Robb.
> *** Sigma: Your point is factually false, lists names of some people here
> *** Matt: I concede the point, there are people here who have shared
> concerns, forgot about a few, sorry
> ** Robb: Most of my concerns were just clarifying statements on how
> different than the others of the collective (sorry missed most of this Robb)
> ** Patrick: Want to speak to the kinds of objections: Going through notes
> about objections to spirituality, religion, especially Christianity.
> Objections are to brainwashy/pyramid-scheme style religions like mormonism,
> jehovahs witnesses, which I agree with, manipulative patriarchal bullshit
> is bad. But recognize spirtuality is very diverse, and has been a principle
> component of social justice movements. Examples: Gandhi, MLK, Malcolm X are
> old school examples.  Zapatistas are a contemporary example of a movement
> toward autonomy based on traditional mayan culture and religion, a case in
> point where anarchism and spirituality dovetail together. Objections are
> straw-man objections, so we should do trial period. There are valid
> objections, but there are big reasons to build these kinds of bridges.
> ** yar: if these people were anything like mormons, they'd already have a
> place. a big fancy modern place. also gandhi & mlk weren't anarchists...
> but anyway
> ** matt: Patrick is contending that many of the arguments by sudoers (on
> email and meeting notes) against working with Liberation Ministries are (at
> least in part) drawing that comparison, which ultimately seems misguided.
> ** Matt: Agree with Patrick, unfortunate that people on each side
> (supporting, or questioning) are seeing only distorted images of this
> eachother instead of the actual depth/complexity at hand here. This is why
> I am in pain, and why I have recused myself.
> *** yar will not be able to go to the delegates meeting tomorrow. matt, if
> sudoroom can consent to a trial period or abstain, are you willing to be a
> delegate then?
> ** yar: this is why a trial period is so important IMO. february will be
> here before we even know it. +1+1 Trial period! Woot woot!
> ** Romy: Uncomfortable going from 0 to 1 year. Trial period might be fine,
> we do that with our members.
> ** Matt: It seems like there might be a a dynamic between Cheryl and her
> ministry, where something they do in an event is perhaps a gesture of where
> their congregation is going to put their major energy. There hasn't been
> any effort so far in this space, and can't wrap my head around why that is.
> Maybe someone an omni person is advising that, maybe Cheryl's board, but
> unclear.
> *** Patrick: Inside their current proposal directly says they plan to be
> part of the Omni no matter what, even if there is no agreement.
> *** Sigma: Why haven't they done this already, in the current month since
> this got proposed? Seems like a red flag.
> *** Pat: direct response, peoples lives are crazy complicated, surviving
> in capitalism is hard. There may be good reason they haven't been able to
> devote time to hanging out in Omni without some formal commitment (long or
> short)
> *** Matt: Maybe a reason maybe not, maybe due to miscommunication that
> Cheryl believed she had to be a member in order to do stuff. Was clarified
> directly about a month ago.
> ****
> https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Event:2015/08/27_Delegates_Meeting#Liberation_Ministries
> **** yar: they asked permission first because that's what our website told
> them to do. and the reaction after this made them very skeptical about
> investing more time, energy & money if the omni community is going to
> reject them in the end.
> *** Sigma: listened to one of Cheryl's sermons and has an explicit
> objection to bringing in a christian organization that uses the bible and
> substantially supports things in the bible, unless things in there are
> specifically denied and crossed out, there are a plethora of bigoted,
> hateful, mysogynistic statements in the bible, an organization that uses
> this text and promotes it unquestioningly is a system of oppression.  THey
> need to go the extra mile to show that they do not subscribe to the hateful
> parts of the bible.
> **** yar: they said they're aligned with everything in Omni's statement of
> solidarity!!! that is a thousand extra miles.
> *** Pat: So maybe we could formulate that question, "What is LM's
> relationship with the text of the bible, in detail?"  And can we ask that
> question and explore it through a ~4 month trial period?
> **** yar: that is why we have a trial period. the answer is nuanced and we
> can learn this over time.
> *** yar: their practice is dependent on what people in their community
> need, it's not predetermined at all. these are not dogmatists, it's people
> who want to build community, infrastructure for mutual aid, and singing and
> dancing while doing it. feels like i'm talking to brick walls here.
> *** Sigma: Not at a point where I would block now, as the combination of
> support of a trial period and the non-member status makes LM's explicit
> bible support less tied to the values of the Omni.
> ** Matt: Thing in America where precident's matter, so it doesn't matter
> that law is established by judges, etc, but we shouldn't get trapped in the
> mindset where because we did it previously we should we do it this way. For
> ex, wasn't GWS founders who showed up, it was a chapter. We did explicitly
> scrutinized what they do, what they needed. They were excited to be working
> with other collectives. Several other collectives engaged in a trial period
> instead of forming a long-term committment at first.
> ** Sigma: Seems different as a christian church comes from a history of
> exploitation and oppression, so the default position is rejection and needs
> work to establish that it doesn't embody those patterns of history
> *** yar: they do. have you read the notes? these are our people. they are
> on our side.
> *** Matt: Agree with that, have talked about trauma as a default reaction.
> ** Max: There are many people here whose default reaction is "organized
> religion: no" and subsequently maybe this isn't the best place for LM
> *** yar: I am not ceding Omni to anti-religious bigots. I am simply not. I
> do not accept this argument. +1
> ** Max: Maybe this isn't the space for LM, maybe they should just have a
> landlord. [who is saying this?] (his name is max)
> *** maybe this isn't the space for you
> ** Mary ward (walks in, stage right!): They are soliciting us for space,
> they explicitly want to be here.
> ** Robb: They want year lease, do other collectives do a year lease?
> *** Matt: No, it's different because the collectives can decide their own
> fate (didn't understand this exactly, feel free to fill in with more
> details)
> *** yar: we are hoping to offer them a trial period. that is what's up for
> consensus right now.
> ** Romy: Is the logic of a lease they are just forming their ministry?
> *** Matt: Yeah
> *** Robb: She's indicated once the ball is rolling she wants to keep it
> rolling in the same space
> ** Romy: 300 seems like such a low number for this space
> *** yar: this is not what's up for consensus right now. it's derailing the
> conversation. we are talking about a trial period. we can figure out the
> rest later.
> *** Patrick: Optik Illusions (sp?) is at 100
> *** yar: we are an anti-capitalist space which charges based on need and
> ability, not market value
> ** Matt: It's complex because it's common space, like we have a computer
> there that they shouldn't move, in terms of Opti Allusions
> ** Matt: It also blocks off Sunday mornings so no other activities are
> possible
> *** yar: in the past year, only a handful of things happened on Sunday
> mornings. this may change eventually but probalby not much before February
> 1, which is the only period under consideration right now
> ** Robb: True for OI on friday
> ** Matt: Complex topic, many objections, many emotional responses.
> ** Patrick: Do we have consensus on trial period?
> ** Mary: It's really about the space, not used on Sunday
> ** Matt: Not true, data on the used space was incorrect, frustrated. Each
> side is not trying to understand all the issues, just pushing their
> perspective.
> *** yar: Ben's report from Commons WG was incorrect? Please can you back
> this up? Ben was a neutral third party in this, and this is new information
> for me, so it's not fair to use this as an example of me "not trying to
> understand"
> **** jenny: somewhat incorrect. as someone who stewarded a lot of events,
> many weekend events had early setup times or would come back the next day
> to finish cleaning. didn't account for the BACH unconference or the Free
> Marissa Caravan report-back, which maybe weren't listed properly on the
> calendar, just two events off the top of my head that I recall using the
> ballroom Sunday am. Also, our event requests are only increasing and we're
> likely to book more weekend-long events once we have our permits sorted.
> Just some points of info, I thought his report was otherwise fairly
> accurate.
> ***** +1, on top of that it's an infinite cycle
> ** Romy: Don't have bad feelings on this, necessarily complex topic.
> ** Sigma: Open question, given Omni slowness on making decisions, and
> given previous issues with La Commune lease termination, how would this
> trial period end? What happens if there are problems but not consensus on
> further inclusion? How would a problematic assocation be terminated?
> ** Romy: I don't understand why they didn't take the time to come here and
> get to know us?
> *** yar: see above. they followed the instructions on our website.
> **** Sigma: These were clarified about a month ago, nothing has happened
> since?
> **** yar: at that point they had heard so much deep anti-religious
> sentiment that they are clearly reluctant to invest much time without first
> getting a commitment from us that we can get past the religion thing
> **** Sigma: That interpretation contradicts explicit language in their
> proposal which says they will participate even if they aren't given a lease.
> **** yar: oh, i see what you're saying. yes it would be nice if people
> from LM could participate on a daily basis regardless. but i find myself
> having trouble with that lately, even.
> *** Mary: maybe miscommunication
> *** Matt: Totally agree, don't get it. "Not having services now" seems
> like cop-out.
> ** Sigma: Looks like Patrick is drafting a proposal, requesting explicit
> language that without an explicit Omni consensus to extend the trial
> period, if the trail period has elapse, their lease is terminated.
> Essentially want to avoid ambiguity, like as with happened with La Commune,
> and want to make a problematic sitation resolvable.
> *** yar: the issue with La Commune was leaving unexpectedly early and
> having a dysfunctional internal decisionmaking process due to everybody
> leaving, it's so not really comparable
> *** Sigma: Wasn't solely based on the La Commune situation, did want to
> provide an explicit outcome if their presence is problematic and there
> isn't a consensus that they should stay.
> ** Brendan: If this wasn't a church, would we be doing a trial period?
> *** Matt: Yes, this has happened before.
> *** Robb: In trial period now.
> *** Mary: Yeah and there is substantial scrutiny for each new collective.
> *** Pat suggests an Amendment to the LM proposal: Quoting from the new LM
> proposal, in the section "Summary": "[LM is] confident that their ability
> to collaborate and contribute to the space will manifest, whether they
> become a collective member now, later or never."
>
> As someone who is passionate about Inter-faith organizing and building
> broad based solidarity around radical values, I echo LM’s confidence that
> given a trial period, LM would be able to demonstrate beyond a shadow of a
> doubt that they are NOT trying to
> brainwash/mind-control/emotionally-manipulate anyone.  I am also confident
> that if other cultural mismatches were to arise, we would be able to
> resolve them. I am also confident that the connection to the warmth of an
> intergenerational, interracial, family-oriented membership that LM would
> catalyze would convince the skeptical that the benefits of LM's presence
> far outweigh the costs.  I am overflowingly confident that, as suggested by
> Yar at the 8/26 delegates meeting, a trial period of 3 to 6 months would be
> more than enough time to build trust between LM and the Omni community,
> after which LM could be confirmed as a long term tenant and/or
> member-collective.
>
> Most of my friends in the activist community would agree that organizers
> should build affinity/trust first before jumping into a long-term
> partnership together, it is totally unreasonable and naive to expect
> otherwise.  As Yar said at the 8/26 sudo meeting, "applying to be a member
> collective is like proposing marriage. so take us on a few dates first."
>
> text of amendment:
> LM will be a tenant for a trial period of (4 months? Yar proposed Oct 1st
> to Feb 1st) in which LM and the wider Omni community can build trust and
> affinity with each other.  If the Omni community does not reach consensus
> to extend the trial period or enter into an official long-term arrangement
> with LM, then the trial period will terminate.
> ** Sigma: For new people arriving, if you are missing context, please read
> the notes, because the notes are great, because I'm taking them.
> *** Marc: Thanks for taking notes :)
> *** rmt_daniel: thx Sigma. I am reading them. Not saying much, but
> reading. Thx! :)
> ** Romy: Feel like everything would be awesome if she came and talked to us
> *** Brendan: Maybe she feels anxious because we are like "omg you are an
> evil church ruler lady" and if we were actively open about talking to her
> then it would go better
> * Lesley (remote): I also support 4-6 month trial.+1
> ** Patrick: Maybe we should have an envoy of people who are not allergic
> to religion and want to meet her and talk to her
> *** Mary: I am in
> *** Brendan: I am in to envoy
> *** Pat: Can we get quorum to consense on Sudo requesting an amendment to
> the proposal that includes a trial period of 4 months?
>
> ===Vote===
> Proposal: Liberation Ministries (LM) will be a tenant for a trial period
> of 4 months, in which LM and the wider Omni community can build trust and
> affinity with each other.  If the Omni community does not reach consensus
> to extend the trial period or enter into an official long-term arrangement
> with LM, then the trial period will terminate.
> * Aye: Lesley, Yar, Pat, Francisco, Troy, Liz, Max, Mary, Anthony, Robb
> * Not Blocking: Sigma, Juul (but not feeling very happy about it), Matthew
> Stewart (Think this is a really bad idea), Jenny, rmt_daniel (I agree w
> M.Stewart).
> * Blocking:
>
> The proposal passes.
>
> ==New Omni Delegates==
> ===PatXu===
> * Proposal: Add Patrick to be on delegates list.
> ** Aye: Jenny, Sigma, Jake, Mary, Lesley, Matt, Romy, Robb, Karissa
> ** Abstaining: Francisco
> ** Blocking:
>
> The proposal passes.
>
> ===Sigma===
> * Proposal: Add Sigma to be on delegates list.
> ** Aye: Jenny, Jake, Mary, Patrick, Matt, Romy, Robb, Karissa, juul
> ** Abstaining: Francisco
> ** Blocking:
>
> The proposal passes.
>
> =Conflicts/Bans=
> * Dante C who reportedly spit at Niki was reminded again and issued
> interest in attempting to engage in conflict resolution. Has returned to
> Omni Commons since then many times,  and has been asked to leave on several
> occaisions, and needs to engage in conflict resolution, but until then is
> not welcome in the space.
>
> =Previously=
> * https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2015-09-09
> * https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2015-09-02
> * https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2015-08-26
>
> --
> Jenny
>
> Help open a people-powered common space in Oakland, California!
> https://omnicommons.org/donate
>
> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
> -Laurie Anderson
>
> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
>  -Hannah Arendt
>
> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
> -Stéphane Mallarmé
> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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