[sudo-discuss] Steve causing problems at omni/sudoroom

Steve Leach stevenaleach at gmail.com
Sat Mar 10 15:46:20 PST 2018

---> "a ripped and empty envelope which you of course, left behind."

OK! We're finally getting somewhere. Your misunderstanding seems to be the
fact you thought I left. You seem to still be under the impression that I
had left. My laptop was on and still sitting there along with my coffee and
tobacco, I hadn't left for the night - I just had left the room for a
while. You seem to have left a note written to someone who had left all
their paraphernalia on the table ('left behind' as you said). For me,
returning to the place I've been sitting all day before taking a break and
stepping away for an hour or so, and find the note "STEVE: CLEAN UP THIS
TABLE", assuming that you know that I'm still sitting there and that the
presence of my laptop, caffeine, and nicotine supply clearly show that I've
not departed, it is naturally both confusing and perceived as intentionally

If it was your impression that you were writing a note to some jerk that
"left behind" all their stuff, then perhaps your note was reasonable -
however that was not a situation that existed or would reasonably exist.
And yes, I have also scrubbed both the table in question and the one it is
paired with many times and have scrubbed the big table assembly many times
- no clue how many, it never seemed like a notable event. I've also swept
the space countless times - usually late enough at night  that all
reasonable normal people are gone and I don't disturb others with the
resulting dust clouds.  What I'm not comfortable doing is throwing things
out that I'm not dead sure no one needs, and so I was quite happy that you
had cleared off the table and done the scrap/non-scrap sorting - my usual
method for maintaing those tables involves shifting the accumulated crap
entirely to one, scrubbing the other, swapping and scrubbing again, and
then organizing the stuff that doesn't have a logical space that still
seems like it might be out for a reason. That was temporarily not an option
while the second table was filled with SMT goodies, and I haven't cleaned
them in at least a couple weeks at this point.

Meanwhile: As soon as you posted your complaint yesterday, I find my
keycard no longer functions and can only assume that you took unilateral
action and turned it off. If I am wrong about this, please let me know and
if I am wrong and this is just a random coincidence then I apologize for
"still being shitty", in your words.

So again, if all of this is based on your having had a perception that I
had "left behind" all of my stuff, that I had left for the day, then you
were simply mistaken and I would absolutely agree that if someone were to
do such then that would be an arseholish and unacceptable thing to do.
Fortunately we do not have a problem with anyone doing anything like that.

And I was glad to see the stuff cleared, without having to do it myself and
to worry that I was screwing someone over by throwing out or misplacing
something important - I'd still help try to find anything if someone showed
up panicked because something important was gone that they "know they left
on that table", but I wouldn't have to feel guilty at having inflicted
their problem. With one table instead of two trying to contain the
stochastic drift of parts, it was very much getting absurd and I was
looking forward to seeing the SMT boxes sorted and gone so that I could do
another scrub and reset of both.  In fact both Sierk and I tend to tidy up
at least the big table and major floor scraps when we head out at night
whenever we call it a day at a reasonable hour with functional energy left.
Why? Because we're usually the last ones out and so we're the ones that
should try to minimize the morning mess if possible. It's just what is
reasonable and necessary to do in a shared space.

So: If your note was left out of confusion because you thought I had "left
behind" all of my things for the night, then I apologize for reading undo
hostility into it.  And if you did not unilaterally disable my keycard and
it is just a coincidence, then I apologize for assuming you did so --
always good to check one's assumptions, you know.

On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 2:48 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:

> First of all I want to say that the main problem here is not the fact that
> you
> leave messes in sudoroom.  The problem is that you're treating sudoroom as
> your
> living room and going feral on anyone who intrudes into "your" space.
> This is
> not surprising considering you're literally living right outside the door
> to
> Omni.
> I wrote a polite note asking you to clean the table you had made so
> disgusting,
> the same table you attacked Robert about yesterday, screaming that he had
> moved
> "your" table, and your response was basically a Fuck You.  So I cleaned the
> table and you're still being shitty about it.
> I'm going to ask at this Tuesday meeting that you take some time off from
> sudoroom and the Omni, because you're not taking any opportunities to
> cooperate
> with this community and you're causing harm.  It's not OK.
> we had to ask Chris to stop coming to sudoroom/omni because he was
> treating it
> as his home, and we liked Chris, and he tried to work things out as best he
> can.  You're just throwing shit at everyone.
> -jake
> PS the note I left said "PLEASE" and "THANK YOU", and your response was
> "DO NOT WrITE ON OTHER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY JAKE." and was written on the same
> "property", a ripped and empty envelope which you of course, left behind.
> On Sat, 10 Mar 2018, Steve Leach wrote:
> And yes, regarding your "disappointing interaction" - that began when you
>> made one of two bad assumptions. Your note appears to have been prompted
>> by
>> your either thinking the piles of junk filling the table were all or even
>> largely mine, if your complaint was the junk, or you had thought that I
>> had
>> departed for the  day when I was in fact still in the building and were
>> bothered by my unattended laptop, tobacco, coffee cup, papers and general
>> paraphernalia. The next day when you encountered the same table without me
>> or my possessions, you still seem to have been operating under the
>> impression that the piles of junk to include a car battery, multiple
>> laptop
>> chargers, and all sorts of other whatnot were things I had piled there.
>> Now, perhaps this is understandable since you aren't here most days and
>> don't know what people's routines and norms are that are here. You didn't
>> understand that I tend to find the least loved spot - a place where I
>> won't
>> feel like I'm in anyone's way to sit and that those spots also tend to be
>> the paces where crap in general gets piled. I'm careful not to disturb
>> things that I don't know for sure are garbage and that someone doesn't
>> need, so I just push a clear spot out to be able to place my laptop in.
>> You
>> then posted to the mailing list about the junk on the table and your
>> heroic
>> cleaning of it - but perhaps didn't notice my response re stuff being
>> thrown out, I said that yea I agree stuff shouldn't be stored on the
>> tables
>> and as far as things being thrown out that was why I'm especially careful
>> not to leave anything of mine there on Tuesdays because the hardware
>> hacking tends to need the space and have more purges and re-arrangements -
>> and that I certainly had no problem with anything being pitched because
>> none of it was mine, I wasn't in the room that night and I didn't leave
>> anything unattended in the room to wind up pitched. So yes, the whole
>> interaction regarding the table was, as you say 'disappointing'. Had you
>> just asked me: "Dude, wtf - is all of this junk yours?" I would have said
>> "No, I don't even know what most of it is. It's the contents of both
>> tables
>> pushed over on this one 'cause those boxes came in." I assume you would
>> have then said. "Oh." and we would have had no problem. Instead you left a
>> note that said "STEVE: CLEAN UP THIS TABLE!" written in colored marker on
>> the envelope sitting next to my laptop which you mistook for garbage. I
>> pondered whether you were complaining about my tobacco, notes, laptop,
>> etc.
>> because I had been out of the room for an extended time and you thought I
>> was just really stupid/brave and had left for the night without securing
>> my
>> laptop, or if you thought I was using all of the crap on the table (and
>> what kind of project someone would be doing to involve all of it?), so I
>> parodied your note and returned it: "Jake: Don't Leave Rude Notes." It was
>> fascinating that you describe your note specifically as "polite" and my
>> response as "rude" given that I had intentionally mirrored yours. I
>> figured
>> that the absence of me and my stuff the following day, a Tuesday (when I
>> tend to clear out since things tend to get a little loud and chaotic and I
>> need to be elsewhere if I want to think) would clear up whatever
>> misconceptions you were operating under and was quite surprised to see
>> your
>> post to the group complaining about 'my' junk.  I pointed that out in the
>> reply that you appear not to have read. You would have the "Oh" moment
>> when
>> you would realized that the table without me and my possessions was pretty
>> much as full as it was with, and that was why your note was returned.  You
>> did bring up the legitimate complaint in your message about tobacco
>> crumbs,
>> which again noted, I'm now rolling on a sheet of paper and asking others
>> to
>> do the same. I responded to your list message agreeing that stuff
>> shouldn't
>> be stored on the table - especially on Tuesdays - and that was why I am
>> sure not to do so.  And so yes, I find it quite 'disappointing' and
>> surprising that your latest message includes the words " he rejected my
>> request to clean up the table he had been treating like his living room".
>> At this point, I can't view this as reasonable behavior by someone
>> operating on unchecked assumptions, but intentional harassment.
>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 2:59 PM, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>> I am not there but I hear from Rayc that Steve Leach is causing problems
>>> by
>>> verbally attacking Rayc for moving a table in sudoroom.
>>> Steve is calling it "his" table.  And wouldn't stop yelling at Rayc even
>>> when
>>> Max from Phat Beets asked him to stop interrupting their meeting (Rayc
>>> had
>>> taken the table to the 48th street doors sidewalk area)
>>> I had a disappointing interaction with Steve earlier this week when he
>>> rejected
>>> my request to clean up the table he had been treating like his living
>>> room, but
>>> I didn't realize that he also has a history of blowing up on people and
>>> disrupting meetings, and now verbally attacking my friend.
>>> I would like to ask Steve to take some time away from Omni and Sudoroom
>>> and/or
>>> engage in mediation with me, and probably also with Rayc who has been
>>> attacked
>>> in the past and doesn't deserve to be stressed out like this at Omni.
>>> -jake
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
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