[sudo-sys] [Mesh] [sudo-discuss] Fwd: Re: Server Room Status

[Adrian Chadd]

hi!

One note - electronic equipment (And the ones that cost $$$) tend to
want to be in a slightly more humidity and temperature controlled room
than "oh just cool it with outside air."

The outside air may be cool enough but it may have more moisture than
you'd like. Repeated cycling of temperature and humidity can
dramatically decrease shelf life. I've watched racks of computers go
bad quickly because someone used the "open the door to the outside"
method of cooling.

HTH,


-a


On 7 July 2014 17:05, Somebody <somebody at riseup.net> wrote:
> David,
>
> Garbage cans in front of electrical panels are an OSHA violation, the
> front of that panel has to have about 4 feet of clear space. And about
> 1 foot on the side, someone correct me if I a wrong. Not to mention
> water splashing.
>
> All we need is a snitch within us to call on us, and we are in
> trouble. So we have to be careful there.
>
> The idea I presented is to bring it to Sudo and SudoMesh, so it can be
> killed there and not waste OOC's meeting times.
>
> Why not in Sudo?
> I personally would love to have the Server Room in the Sudoroom. But,
> it may incur into additional expenses (make windows, or install a AC
> unit) to make the area less hot than what it currently is.
>
> As you may know, in the Corporate world and Public places like the one
> I work for, we keep the equipment between 65-72 degrees. Have you
> checked how high is the temperature at the Sudoroom area?
>
>
> Did you know that our storage server, when in our old sudoroom
> location, crashed and a drive went down very likely because the high
> temperature of that closet?
>
>
> If we want to have a decent server room that will server Sudo+OOC, we
> need to think accordingly and decide.
>
> And not, we cannot just be moving the server room from one place to
> another, we need to run cables from that location to the whole
> building no? Long term location would be ideal, wherever we chose it
> to be.
>
> Anyhow, if a shitty physical network is okay with everyone, then I am
> wasting my time. That kind of server room can go anywhere.
>
>
> Matt, Luis, and I did two walks. We discussed some of those areas that
> you mentioned and also checked a place that Yar suggested.
> But some didn't qualify because the are right under the restrooms, so
> potential water leakage right on top of the equipment is a high risk
> to take. Also, at least the one that Yar suggested, the rack in mind
> doesn't fit, the ceiling is too low.
>
> And by the way, I almost gave up yesterday; ideas are not written in
> stone; besides being ideas consensus is used, at least in the
> Sudo/Sudo-Mesh world.
>
> And remember, OOC is the one that would decide at the very end, not
> Sudo/SudoMesh.
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/7/14, 4:01 PM, Matthew Senate wrote:
>> Don't micro-manage creativity. Be pleased that folks want to solve
>> communal (omni-wide) problems right now; this will not always be
>> true. Assume good faith.
>>
>> This being said, arguments exist on all sides. To me the questions
>> are:
>>
>> What are the problems? Need a place to put network utilities very
>> soon. What are the constraints? Only certain kinds of places work
>> for network devices, without intractable costs. What are the
>> opportunities? Two branches (a) places that are convenient and
>> already appropriate for setting up network devices (fast, easy)
>> and (b) places that allow for integrating network devices into the
>> heating/cooling systems (potential energy/cost-savings, require
>> coordination, approval, and implementation with potential extra
>> costs). What are the priorities? To me: speed, simplicity.
>>
>> In my opinion, we should put devices in the simplest place as soon
>> as possible and move on to the many other, more complex problems.
>>
>> // Matt
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 3:08 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:dkeenan44 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> (Also I am thinking, low-power solar fans for mellow airflow into
>> the basement venting, like the kind had on boats, would be cool.)
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 3:06 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:dkeenan44 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Also, re: ventilation in the basement - we have to recconnect the
>> blower from the room (the 1'x3' venting) on the east side asap. On
>> the west side, there is active cooling on the west side already (2x
>> fans, plus windows above the sidewalk. There is also a large
>> lightwell above the barr-room bathroom that could probably be
>> easily gotten to. So, re: cool air (without a/c) to the servers if
>> they are in the basement, we could pull cool air from the street or
>> roof to the cold side of the rack, and vent heat from the hot
>> side/top to the existing exhaust venting the furnaces use, or vent
>> heat directlty to the basement in the winter, or vent perhaps to
>> that lightwell... we can use thermostats in the room to trigger A/C
>> from the compressor to the rack only if needed, and use ambient the
>> rest of the time.
>>
>> In general, the ventilation setup in the basement - what needs to
>> exhaust separately, what venting is shared and whence does it
>> come/go - needs to be coordinated with the FNB, La Commune, Black
>> Hole, and OOC. It's a logistical issue that Sudoers I think would
>> be really good at help sorting out, and I would really love it if
>> we could.
>>
>> As others have stated, we need a working group just for the
>> basement and space there to hash out this stuff - plumbing is
>> another equally pressing aspect. It's enough work and discussion I
>> think it may be a good idea to set up its own email list perhaps on
>> riseup or google, but I am open to suggestions about how best to
>> comprise this.
>>
>> Love David
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 2:30 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:dkeenan44 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Again I am /super/ psyched that we are tackling where to rack
>> servers and very grateful to all who are putting energy and effort
>> into this.
>>
>> Whether it be for servers or any other ideas about how to use
>> others' space and shared space, I feel the only real missing piece
>> in the discussion here, and actually to various degrees within
>> pretty much /every/ member collective actually, is not keeping in
>> mind any other group's plans or ideas for a given space in the
>> building - especially for their very own space which they have
>> already been promised are technically in possession of.
>>
>> /For sure/, by all means, lets brainstorm about every possible
>> place things like servers could go. If we are imagining the rack
>> should /not/ go into sudo/ccl's room (why not?), but rather
>> elsewhere in the building, I think that's a conversation that
>> should include others in the building too, not just sudoers,
>> because it affects others' planning and use of space.
>>
>> The same I feel is true for anyone else's plans to do any
>> build-out, and all buildout really should be discussed within the
>> OOC as a whole. This doesn't have to be a nightmare of endless
>> meetings - its simply a way to try to act in a coordinated and
>> thoughtful manner in concert with other groups in the space.
>>
>> For example, in the hypothetical of Sudo putting a server rack into
>> what is presently another group's dedicated space (Backspace), that
>> particular conversation should be had with that _group_ from the
>> get-go. For sure, hash out pros & cons on sudo-discuss, walk the
>> building with other sudoers - yes! - but that discussion should not
>> take place /only/ on sudo-discuss (or sudo-mesh), or /only/ with
>> other sudoers (me and Andrew). Also, the Backspace area presently
>> needs a lot of work - apparently, many people can only envision as
>> a place for garbage, or to get to utility panels.
>>
>> Just because the Backspace area has not been fixed up yet, does not
>> mean it won't soon be. Backspace area is at a real disadvantage
>> here compared to nearly every other group, and I feel we all must
>> be understanding of this, as Backspace clearly needs more work (and
>> /time/ to do that) than pretty much anywhere else in the building.
>> I mean, Backspace has far more intense permitting and structural
>> issues to address - we're getting architectural drawings (I had the
>> architect over yesterday partly for this reason), and planning it
>> out thoughtfully - this is not going to happen in one week or even
>> one month. Also, Backspacers are a much smaller, newer group than
>> Sudo, in which almost everyone has day jobs and simply can't be
>> there alla the time - they are not on sudo-discuss, nor necessarily
>> should they be, at least any more than all of sudo should be on
>> backspace's list.
>>
>> For those that don't know - Backspace Wellness Collective is a
>> regularly-meeting group presently comprised of four healers /
>> bodyworkers, in addition to Andrew and myself: Samantha,
>> Margaretha, Athena, and Sarah. So, the notion of building Sudo
>> stuff into Backspace needs to be discussed extensively with
>> Backspace as a group. I see this model as applying to any group
>> wanting to build out in another group's space.
>>
>> As you can imagine Backspace is having their own internal
>> discussions about how articulate their model, including how best to
>> build out, refinish, and make use of that physical area. Consider
>> that if you blow away part of Backspace's area or an entire room
>> for a different use, you are also potentially actually talking
>> about removing an individual from Backspace, who would have used
>> that room for their practice. I think it might be best to think
>> about the pro's of putting servers into backspace in that way: Do
>> you really feel that strongly about having servers there that you
>> are willing to do ask that of another group? So you see what I mean
>> here.
>>
>> Anyhow, to a less intensive extent that conversation should also be
>> had with the Omni Oakland Commons as a whole (in the omnilogistics
>> list), especially if you see the servers as serving the entire
>> building, not just sudo (which would need to be explained to
>> everyone else too - easily enough done, but the common use of these
>> servers should be clarified.)
>>
>> Regarding server racks specifically and knowing sudo frankly I am
>> somewhat doubtful that racks would be simply be left alone in a
>> set-and-forget mode as much as has been inferred. Rather, I imagine
>> sudo will actually need not-infrequent physical access.. to hack on
>> things, install and upgrade new donated equipment, etc. Therefore
>> they should be in a space where physical access is not an issue,
>> and probably for permitting issues alone not infringe on the area
>> for electrical panels. The electrical panel area should be closeted
>> off no matter what and really never entered unless a breaker is
>> flipped which, with 200A (or is it 240A?) of power and solid
>> distribution throughout the building, and thoughtful planning re:
>> circuit load, I see as being rare. Yes, a number of the circuits
>> are powered off presently throughout the space - we will address
>> that, and then the electrical closet should be rarely entered, if
>> only for safety's sake if nothing else. My 2c.
>>
>> Best, David
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Luis Murillo
>> <luis.murillo.plos at gmail.com <mailto:luis.murillo.plos at gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey guys sorry I've been MIA today, been running some errands/TCB
>> will swing by sudo later tonight and monday night :-)
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Somebody <somebody at riseup.net
>> <mailto:somebody at riseup.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Excuse me for resending this email treat, but the Sudo-mesh list
>> was not linked from the first email that I sent out.
>>
>> Thx!
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message -------- Subject:        Re:
>> [sudo-discuss] Server Room Status Date:   Sun, 06 Jul 2014 17:12:03
>> -0700 From:   hol at gaskill.com <mailto:hol at gaskill.com> To:
>> David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com <mailto:dkeenan44 at gmail.com>> CC:
>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>> <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>> the compressor for that could also provide cooling
>> for the servers. i think doing experiments on heat recovery and
>> regenerative hx are good for longterm - using a compressor and
>> refrigerant to cool hot things may be less green than using fans
>> and just circulating fresh cool air and letting convection do the
>> work.  if there's no objection, we could set up temp racks where
>> daniel and others propose until we can run coax to a more optimal
>> area.  i finally have some time this week so i'll be around to
>> assist with low-level tasks in support of setting up basic
>> infrastructure
>>
>> cheers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2014-07-06 10:00, David Keenan wrote:
>>
>>> hey guys,
>>>
>>>
>>> I applaud the effort to find a good, secure server
>> space! I definitely
>>> wanna help.
>>>
>>> The main issue with using this particular room is,
>> as you can see by
>>> looking at the floorplan, the Backspace wellness
>> collective is
>>> already paying rent on that particular area (NW
>> groundfloor
>>> corner) and will be making their own changes to
>> that space. Backspace
>>> is myself, Andrew of course, Margaretha, Athena,
>> and Sarah.
>>>
>>> The wellness collective needs quiet - thats partly
>> an attraction for
>>> that corner of the building - and, a cabinet full
>> of fans plus almost
>>> certainly AC for the cabinet, is loud. Also, it
>> takes up Backspace,
>>> and to be honest, i have hard time inamagining
>> Sudo wont need to get
>>> into it alla the time, so it seems nonideal to me.
>>>
>>> In general I would think, before using other
>> essentially non-shared
>>> areas of the building for Sudo's servers, we would
>> have to
>>> actually rule out why building the room in other
>> locations, like Sudo
>>> room, wouldnt work, and why we think actually that
>> particular location
>>> in someone else's area is really the only place it
>> could work.
>>>
>>> Regardless of Bsckspace, having racked & stacked
>> for going on 20 years
>>> that would not be my first location in the entire
>> building for a lot
>>> of reasons.
>>>
>>> Also, a server cabinet / closet does not need to
>> be near the main
>>> electrical panel. Nor does it does not need to be
>> near the street.
>>>
>>> We could find a room in the basement. There is
>> excellent ventilation
>>> to the basement, that just needs a small fix. Also
>> the furnaces are in
>>> the basement, and heat from the servers could tap
>> into that venting to
>>> actually help heat the building, which could save
>> on energy. Also,
>>> there is a plan to build a walk-in in the basement
>> - the compressor
>>> for that could also provide cooling for the servers.
>>>
>>> In other words, in my view, we should attempt a
>> green solution that
>>> ties the serbers into the infrastructure for the
>> building.
>>>
>>> :) d
>>>
>>> On Saturday, July 5, 2014, Somebody
>> <somebody at riseup.net <mailto:somebody at riseup.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> === SERVER ROOM UPDATES === 2014/07/05: Today Luis, Matt, and I
>>> did the walk in the
>> building, and so far the
>>> only place that seems the most appropriate to have the server
>>> room is the
>> room by the bar.
>>>
>>> This area is the most ideal in the whole building
>> because the air
>>> flow, temperature, electricity proximity, and also
>> because it is where the
>>> Internet access enters the building.
>>>
>>> Since this area is not is not part of the SudoRoom
>> space, we will have
>>> to talk about it with the rest of the Sudo-Mesh
>> group and the group
>>> approves it, then we would have to present the
>> idea at our
>>> Omni Collective meeting for approval.
>>>
>>> If approved by the Omni Collective, we would need
>> to build:
>>>
>>> * A 2" or so high floor (two by fours and plywood
>> would do, I believe.
>>> * A 55" x 65" cage with chicken wire walls and a door.
>>>
>>> If this place is NOT approved by the OOC then
>> perhaps we should
>>> consider building the Server Room in the SudoRoom Space.
>> High temperature and
>>> noise levels are the main issues.
>>>
>>> If others have ideas/comments/or want to be part
>> of this process
>>> please jump in. You may contact Matt, Luis, or myself
>> (Daniel).
>>>
>>> This update and all other Network/Reboot project
>> is found at:
>>>
>> https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Network/Reboot
>>>
>>>
>>> This update and all other Network/Reboot project
>> is found at:
>>> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Network/Reboot
>>>
>>> Thx!
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss
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>> <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
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