[sudo-sys] [sudo-discuss] [Mesh] Fwd: Re: Server Room Status

Mon Jul 7 17:17:37 PDT 2014

David is just one member of Backspace, we meet tomorrow and we will
consider as a collective that sudo room would like to use the utility room
for servers. I'm on your side, but Backspace has a serious lack of space
and if there are genuine arguments for our use of that space we will have
to consider those as well.

On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 5:05 PM, Somebody <somebody at riseup.net> wrote:

> David,
>
> Garbage cans in front of electrical panels are an OSHA violation, the
> front of that panel has to have about 4 feet of clear space. And about
> 1 foot on the side, someone correct me if I a wrong. Not to mention
> water splashing.
>
> All we need is a snitch within us to call on us, and we are in
> trouble. So we have to be careful there.
>
> The idea I presented is to bring it to Sudo and SudoMesh, so it can be
> killed there and not waste OOC's meeting times.
>
> Why not in Sudo?
> I personally would love to have the Server Room in the Sudoroom. But,
> it may incur into additional expenses (make windows, or install a AC
> unit) to make the area less hot than what it currently is.
>
> As you may know, in the Corporate world and Public places like the one
> I work for, we keep the equipment between 65-72 degrees. Have you
> checked how high is the temperature at the Sudoroom area?
>
>
> Did you know that our storage server, when in our old sudoroom
> location, crashed and a drive went down very likely because the high
> temperature of that closet?
>
>
> If we want to have a decent server room that will server Sudo+OOC, we
> need to think accordingly and decide.
>
> And not, we cannot just be moving the server room from one place to
> another, we need to run cables from that location to the whole
> building no? Long term location would be ideal, wherever we chose it
> to be.
>
> Anyhow, if a shitty physical network is okay with everyone, then I am
> wasting my time. That kind of server room can go anywhere.
>
>
> Matt, Luis, and I did two walks. We discussed some of those areas that
> you mentioned and also checked a place that Yar suggested.
> But some didn't qualify because the are right under the restrooms, so
> potential water leakage right on top of the equipment is a high risk
> to take. Also, at least the one that Yar suggested, the rack in mind
> doesn't fit, the ceiling is too low.
>
> And by the way, I almost gave up yesterday; ideas are not written in
> stone; besides being ideas consensus is used, at least in the
> Sudo/Sudo-Mesh world.
>
> And remember, OOC is the one that would decide at the very end, not
> Sudo/SudoMesh.
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/7/14, 4:01 PM, Matthew Senate wrote:
> > Don't micro-manage creativity. Be pleased that folks want to solve
> > communal (omni-wide) problems right now; this will not always be
> > true. Assume good faith.
> >
> > This being said, arguments exist on all sides. To me the questions
> > are:
> >
> > What are the problems? Need a place to put network utilities very
> > soon. What are the constraints? Only certain kinds of places work
> > for network devices, without intractable costs. What are the
> > opportunities? Two branches (a) places that are convenient and
> > already appropriate for setting up network devices (fast, easy)
> > and (b) places that allow for integrating network devices into the
> > heating/cooling systems (potential energy/cost-savings, require
> > coordination, approval, and implementation with potential extra
> > costs). What are the priorities? To me: speed, simplicity.
> >
> > In my opinion, we should put devices in the simplest place as soon
> > as possible and move on to the many other, more complex problems.
> >
> > // Matt
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 3:08 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com
> > <mailto:dkeenan44 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > (Also I am thinking, low-power solar fans for mellow airflow into
> > the basement venting, like the kind had on boats, would be cool.)
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 3:06 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com
> > <mailto:dkeenan44 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Also, re: ventilation in the basement - we have to recconnect the
> > blower from the room (the 1'x3' venting) on the east side asap. On
> > the west side, there is active cooling on the west side already (2x
> > fans, plus windows above the sidewalk. There is also a large
> > lightwell above the barr-room bathroom that could probably be
> > easily gotten to. So, re: cool air (without a/c) to the servers if
> > they are in the basement, we could pull cool air from the street or
> > roof to the cold side of the rack, and vent heat from the hot
> > side/top to the existing exhaust venting the furnaces use, or vent
> > heat directlty to the basement in the winter, or vent perhaps to
> > that lightwell... we can use thermostats in the room to trigger A/C
> > from the compressor to the rack only if needed, and use ambient the
> > rest of the time.
> >
> > In general, the ventilation setup in the basement - what needs to
> > exhaust separately, what venting is shared and whence does it
> > come/go - needs to be coordinated with the FNB, La Commune, Black
> > Hole, and OOC. It's a logistical issue that Sudoers I think would
> > be really good at help sorting out, and I would really love it if
> > we could.
> >
> > As others have stated, we need a working group just for the
> > basement and space there to hash out this stuff - plumbing is
> > another equally pressing aspect. It's enough work and discussion I
> > think it may be a good idea to set up its own email list perhaps on
> > riseup or google, but I am open to suggestions about how best to
> > comprise this.
> >
> > Love David
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 2:30 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com
> > <mailto:dkeenan44 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Again I am /super/ psyched that we are tackling where to rack
> > servers and very grateful to all who are putting energy and effort
> > into this.
> >
> > Whether it be for servers or any other ideas about how to use
> > others' space and shared space, I feel the only real missing piece
> > in the discussion here, and actually to various degrees within
> > pretty much /every/ member collective actually, is not keeping in
> > mind any other group's plans or ideas for a given space in the
> > building - especially for their very own space which they have
> > already been promised are technically in possession of.
> >
> > /For sure/, by all means, lets brainstorm about every possible
> > place things like servers could go. If we are imagining the rack
> > should /not/ go into sudo/ccl's room (why not?), but rather
> > elsewhere in the building, I think that's a conversation that
> > should include others in the building too, not just sudoers,
> > because it affects others' planning and use of space.
> >
> > The same I feel is true for anyone else's plans to do any
> > build-out, and all buildout really should be discussed within the
> > OOC as a whole. This doesn't have to be a nightmare of endless
> > meetings - its simply a way to try to act in a coordinated and
> > thoughtful manner in concert with other groups in the space.
> >
> > For example, in the hypothetical of Sudo putting a server rack into
> > what is presently another group's dedicated space (Backspace), that
> > particular conversation should be had with that _group_ from the
> > get-go. For sure, hash out pros & cons on sudo-discuss, walk the
> > building with other sudoers - yes! - but that discussion should not
> > take place /only/ on sudo-discuss (or sudo-mesh), or /only/ with
> > other sudoers (me and Andrew). Also, the Backspace area presently
> > needs a lot of work - apparently, many people can only envision as
> > a place for garbage, or to get to utility panels.
> >
> > Just because the Backspace area has not been fixed up yet, does not
> > mean it won't soon be. Backspace area is at a real disadvantage
> > here compared to nearly every other group, and I feel we all must
> > be understanding of this, as Backspace clearly needs more work (and
> > /time/ to do that) than pretty much anywhere else in the building.
> > I mean, Backspace has far more intense permitting and structural
> > issues to address - we're getting architectural drawings (I had the
> > architect over yesterday partly for this reason), and planning it
> > out thoughtfully - this is not going to happen in one week or even
> > one month. Also, Backspacers are a much smaller, newer group than
> > Sudo, in which almost everyone has day jobs and simply can't be
> > there alla the time - they are not on sudo-discuss, nor necessarily
> > should they be, at least any more than all of sudo should be on
> > backspace's list.
> >
> > For those that don't know - Backspace Wellness Collective is a
> > regularly-meeting group presently comprised of four healers /
> > bodyworkers, in addition to Andrew and myself: Samantha,
> > Margaretha, Athena, and Sarah. So, the notion of building Sudo
> > stuff into Backspace needs to be discussed extensively with
> > Backspace as a group. I see this model as applying to any group
> > wanting to build out in another group's space.
> >
> > As you can imagine Backspace is having their own internal
> > discussions about how articulate their model, including how best to
> > build out, refinish, and make use of that physical area. Consider
> > that if you blow away part of Backspace's area or an entire room
> > for a different use, you are also potentially actually talking
> > about removing an individual from Backspace, who would have used
> > that room for their practice. I think it might be best to think
> > about the pro's of putting servers into backspace in that way: Do
> > you really feel that strongly about having servers there that you
> > are willing to do ask that of another group? So you see what I mean
> > here.
> >
> > Anyhow, to a less intensive extent that conversation should also be
> > had with the Omni Oakland Commons as a whole (in the omnilogistics
> > list), especially if you see the servers as serving the entire
> > building, not just sudo (which would need to be explained to
> > everyone else too - easily enough done, but the common use of these
> > servers should be clarified.)
> >
> > Regarding server racks specifically and knowing sudo frankly I am
> > somewhat doubtful that racks would be simply be left alone in a
> > set-and-forget mode as much as has been inferred. Rather, I imagine
> > sudo will actually need not-infrequent physical access.. to hack on
> > things, install and upgrade new donated equipment, etc. Therefore
> > they should be in a space where physical access is not an issue,
> > and probably for permitting issues alone not infringe on the area
> > for electrical panels. The electrical panel area should be closeted
> > off no matter what and really never entered unless a breaker is
> > flipped which, with 200A (or is it 240A?) of power and solid
> > distribution throughout the building, and thoughtful planning re:
> > circuit load, I see as being rare. Yes, a number of the circuits
> > are powered off presently throughout the space - we will address
> > that, and then the electrical closet should be rarely entered, if
> > only for safety's sake if nothing else. My 2c.
> >
> > Best, David
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Luis Murillo
> > <luis.murillo.plos at gmail.com <mailto:luis.murillo.plos at gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hey guys sorry I've been MIA today, been running some errands/TCB
> > will swing by sudo later tonight and monday night :-)
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Somebody <somebody at riseup.net
> > <mailto:somebody at riseup.net>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Excuse me for resending this email treat, but the Sudo-mesh list
> > was not linked from the first email that I sent out.
> >
> > Thx!
> >
> >
> >
> > -------- Original Message -------- Subject:        Re:
> > [sudo-discuss] Server Room Status Date:   Sun, 06 Jul 2014 17:12:03
> > -0700 From:   hol at gaskill.com <mailto:hol at gaskill.com> To:
> > David Keenan <dkeenan44 at gmail.com <mailto:dkeenan44 at gmail.com>> CC:
> > sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> >
> >
> >
> >> the compressor for that could also provide cooling
> > for the servers. i think doing experiments on heat recovery and
> > regenerative hx are good for longterm - using a compressor and
> > refrigerant to cool hot things may be less green than using fans
> > and just circulating fresh cool air and letting convection do the
> > work.  if there's no objection, we could set up temp racks where
> > daniel and others propose until we can run coax to a more optimal
> > area.  i finally have some time this week so i'll be around to
> > assist with low-level tasks in support of setting up basic
> > infrastructure
> >
> > cheers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2014-07-06 10:00, David Keenan wrote:
> >
> >> hey guys,
> >>
> >>
> >> I applaud the effort to find a good, secure server
> > space! I definitely
> >> wanna help.
> >>
> >> The main issue with using this particular room is,
> > as you can see by
> >> looking at the floorplan, the Backspace wellness
> > collective is
> >> already paying rent on that particular area (NW
> > groundfloor
> >> corner) and will be making their own changes to
> > that space. Backspace
> >> is myself, Andrew of course, Margaretha, Athena,
> > and Sarah.
> >>
> >> The wellness collective needs quiet - thats partly
> > an attraction for
> >> that corner of the building - and, a cabinet full
> > of fans plus almost
> >> certainly AC for the cabinet, is loud. Also, it
> > takes up Backspace,
> >> and to be honest, i have hard time inamagining
> > Sudo wont need to get
> >> into it alla the time, so it seems nonideal to me.
> >>
> >> In general I would think, before using other
> > essentially non-shared
> >> areas of the building for Sudo's servers, we would
> > have to
> >> actually rule out why building the room in other
> > locations, like Sudo
> >> room, wouldnt work, and why we think actually that
> > particular location
> >> in someone else's area is really the only place it
> > could work.
> >>
> >> Regardless of Bsckspace, having racked & stacked
> > for going on 20 years
> >> that would not be my first location in the entire
> > building for a lot
> >> of reasons.
> >>
> >> Also, a server cabinet / closet does not need to
> > be near the main
> >> electrical panel. Nor does it does not need to be
> > near the street.
> >>
> >> We could find a room in the basement. There is
> > excellent ventilation
> >> to the basement, that just needs a small fix. Also
> > the furnaces are in
> >> the basement, and heat from the servers could tap
> > into that venting to
> >> actually help heat the building, which could save
> > on energy. Also,
> >> there is a plan to build a walk-in in the basement
> > - the compressor
> >> for that could also provide cooling for the servers.
> >>
> >> In other words, in my view, we should attempt a
> > green solution that
> >> ties the serbers into the infrastructure for the
> > building.
> >>
> >> :) d
> >>
> >> On Saturday, July 5, 2014, Somebody
> > <somebody at riseup.net <mailto:somebody at riseup.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >> === SERVER ROOM UPDATES === 2014/07/05: Today Luis, Matt, and I
> >> did the walk in the
> > building, and so far the
> >> only place that seems the most appropriate to have the server
> >> room is the
> > room by the bar.
> >>
> >> This area is the most ideal in the whole building
> > because the air
> >> flow, temperature, electricity proximity, and also
> > because it is where the
> >> Internet access enters the building.
> >>
> >> Since this area is not is not part of the SudoRoom
> > space, we will have
> >> to talk about it with the rest of the Sudo-Mesh
> > group and the group
> >> approves it, then we would have to present the
> > idea at our
> >> Omni Collective meeting for approval.
> >>
> >> If approved by the Omni Collective, we would need
> > to build:
> >>
> >> * A 2" or so high floor (two by fours and plywood
> > would do, I believe.
> >> * A 55" x 65" cage with chicken wire walls and a door.
> >>
> >> If this place is NOT approved by the OOC then
> > perhaps we should
> >> consider building the Server Room in the SudoRoom Space.
> > High temperature and
> >> noise levels are the main issues.
> >>
> >> If others have ideas/comments/or want to be part
> > of this process
> >> please jump in. You may contact Matt, Luis, or myself
> > (Daniel).
> >>
> >> This update and all other Network/Reboot project
> > is found at:
> >>
> > https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Network/Reboot
> >>
> >>
> >> This update and all other Network/Reboot project
> > is found at:
> >> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Network/Reboot
> >>
> >> Thx!
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss
> >> mailing list sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
> > <mailto:sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org>
> >> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
> >
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> >
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-- 
---------
Andrew Lowe
http://www.lostways.com
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