what is a good price for one of those and what prices have you seen so far? will it be prohibitively expensive? May 14, 2013 10:40:38 AM, di.franco(a)aya.yale.edu wrote: Sweet. motor. well-suited to vehicle applications. Proportional/servo valves as well, likewise. >On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Hol Gaskill hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote: >Just throwing out a few ingredients for cost estimation purposes. HYDRAULIC POWER Complete Hyraulic power unit $299 http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200329758_200329758?cm_ven=n… vs 11GPM 3000PSI hydraulic pump - $90, would need a motor and coupling, or a clutch/gearing to use power from an engine http://www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Gear-Pump-2-Stage-Brand/dp/B009OXYYS8/ Hydraulic motor $125 http://www.amazon.com/Chief-Hydraulic-Replacement-Char-Lynn-Diameter/dp/B00… 1.5" bore, 10" stroke - $50 http://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Cylinder/dp/B00BGZ9VNU 2.5" bore 14" stroke - $60 http://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Cylinder/dp/B009LQIXJ4/ this doesn't include valves - there are manual and solenoid easily available but I would like to also develop a standard servo-actuated ball valve _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi

how much are you looking to spend on this project overall? May 14, 2013 11:27:08 AM, di.franco(a)aya.yale.edu wrote: I've seen small displacement ones amounting to about 13 HP sustained capacity for a couple hundred. That's enough for highway speeds, barely, with good aerodynamics. Would like to find something capable of 40 GPM at around 2000 PSI, 3K RPM for pump, 1500 RPM for motor, very roughly, to be in the same ballpark as a mid-performance car. >On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Hol Gaskill hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote: far? will it be prohibitively expensive? May 14, 2013 10:40:38 AM, di.franco(a)aya.yale.edu wrote: Sweet. >Let me know if you come across a good value variable displacement pump or motor. >I'm not having an easy time finding those on surplus center and they're well-suited to vehicle applications. Proportional/servo valves as well, likewise. >On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Hol Gaskill hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote: >Just throwing out a few ingredients for cost estimation purposes. HYDRAULIC POWER Complete Hyraulic power unit $299 http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200329758_200329758?cm_ven=n… vs 11GPM 3000PSI hydraulic pump - $90, would need a motor and coupling, or a clutch/gearing to use power from an engine http://www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Gear-Pump-2-Stage-Brand/dp/B009OXYYS8/ Hydraulic motor $125 http://www.amazon.com/Chief-Hydraulic-Replacement-Char-Lynn-Diameter/dp/B00… 1.5" bore, 10" stroke - $50 http://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Cylinder/dp/B00BGZ9VNU 2.5" bore 14" stroke - $60 http://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Cylinder/dp/B009LQIXJ4/ this doesn't include valves - there are manual and solenoid easily available but I would like to also develop a standard servo-actuated ball valve _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi

dude http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/3788876652.html May 14, 2013 03:44:31 PM, di.franco(a)aya.yale.edu wrote: I'm still figuring it out as I play with options. actually want to drive regularly. Don't think I'd need to go over $5k though even with pretty fancy hydraulics. My sense so far anyway, assuming very economical frame and ancillaries. hydraulicinnovations.com's chopper was around $3k I think off the top of my head. I'm also trying to modularize the thinking somewhat so cost / performance can scale up / down, somewhat similar to wikispeed. >On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Hol Gaskill hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote: >how much are you looking to spend on this project overall? May 14, 2013 11:27:08 AM, di.franco(a)aya.yale.edu wrote: I've seen small displacement ones amounting to about 13 HP sustained capacity for a couple hundred. That's enough for highway speeds, barely, with good aerodynamics. Would like to find something capable of 40 GPM at around 2000 PSI, 3K RPM for pump, 1500 RPM for motor, very roughly, to be in the same ballpark as a mid-performance car. >On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 11:23 AM, Hol Gaskill hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote: >what is a good price for one of those and what prices have you seen so far? will it be prohibitively expensive? May 14, 2013 10:40:38 AM, di.franco(a)aya.yale.edu wrote: Sweet. >Let me know if you come across a good value variable displacement pump or motor. >I'm not having an easy time finding those on surplus center and they're well-suited to vehicle applications. Proportional/servo valves as well, likewise. >On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Hol Gaskill hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote: >Just throwing out a few ingredients for cost estimation purposes. HYDRAULIC POWER Complete Hyraulic power unit $299 http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200329758_200329758?cm_ven=n… vs 11GPM 3000PSI hydraulic pump - $90, would need a motor and coupling, or a clutch/gearing to use power from an engine http://www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Gear-Pump-2-Stage-Brand/dp/B009OXYYS8/ Hydraulic motor $125 http://www.amazon.com/Chief-Hydraulic-Replacement-Char-Lynn-Diameter/dp/B00… 1.5" bore, 10" stroke - $50 http://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Cylinder/dp/B00BGZ9VNU 2.5" bore 14" stroke - $60 http://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Double-Acting-Hydraulic-Cylinder/dp/B009LQIXJ4/ this doesn't include valves - there are manual and solenoid easily available but I would like to also develop a standard servo-actuated ball valve _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi

I think before jumping headlong into potentially a $10k project, we should figure out how to put together a hydraulic system. For the basics of fluid control, pneumatics are very cheap and simple compared to hydraulic systems. There is a compressor at the shop, and I have a small air cylinder we could use to do some closed-loop actuation tests. Also a few 24V air valves, and I'll be ordering a 24V - 15A power supply and some more air equipment that should round out the required bill of materials when i get back in town. So a quick and dirty control project using pneumatics would be very beneficial for us even though the behavior is alot spongier due to the compressibility of air. Afterall, that's what they used for robot air hockey. One we get the taste of controlling valves to actuate 2-way cylinders and/or motors, we can raise funds for a 12V hydraulic power unit which can be had for about $300 including reservoir and some valving. From there all we need is some hose and tubing, and I propose both a piston (~$60) and a motor (~150) so we can gain experience with the whole power loop needed for various projects. This is applicable to the CEB press, reverse trike, rocket thrust vectoring, well drilling, you name it. Just getting this basic technology under our belts would be pretty sweet and informative for alot of our people. I bet we could build a small drill rig for under a thousand bucks - groundwater harvesting, foundation drilling, secret stashing of cannon, plenty of options there. Anyway, just getting started is going to be a task of its own and I would propose picking something with a relatively short design-build-redesign cycle so we feel rewarded at regular intervals with a working machin e. On safety, I'm looking into veggie oil etc as hydraulic fluid since that stuff can be pretty nasty. Below are some links. Biodegradable hydraulic fluid: http://www.research.psu.edu/capabilities/documents/biohydraulic.pdf more info on different biofluid products: http://www.technologylubricants.com/Technical/Rexroth_90221_1.pdf On another note, I returned my car to an operational state recently and having never worked on a car (this was my first time to even change my own oil) it was interesting to open the hood with a freshly installed knowledge of some of the components, and actually feel like I had a rough idea of what was going on and how to debug the mechanical/electrical problems that I encountered. A cool project if we ever do incorporate an internal combustion engine would be a custom ECU using whatever standard automotive sensors etc we can get off the shelf and some creative 8-bit math. Any objections to designing around second-hand 90's volvo components? Cheers, Hol _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi

alot of car sensors are analog voltage or current straight into the ECU, though i commend your interest in CANbus and would like to put something together involving it if there's a chance do you know offhand what they use as a corrosion inhibitor? May 22, 2013 02:01:02 PM, di.franco(a)aya.yale.edu wrote: Hydro stuff sounds good. Don't let you stop me though. Water is also an option for hydraulic fluid, ironically enough, when properly purified and with a bit of additive. As for car ECU tinkering, finding something that uses can bus may be a good option since signals are standard and interface hardware is cheap and ubiquitous. On May 22, 2013 1:53 PM, "Hol Gaskill" hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote: I think before jumping headlong into potentially a $10k project, we should figure out how to put together a hydraulic system. For the basics of fluid control, pneumatics are very cheap and simple compared to hydraulic systems. There is a compressor at the shop, and I have a small air cylinder we could use to do some closed-loop actuation tests. Also a few 24V air valves, and I'll be ordering a 24V - 15A power supply and some more air equipment that should round out the required bill of materials when i get back in town. So a quick and dirty control project using pneumatics would be very beneficial for us even though the behavior is alot spongier due to the compressibility of air. Afterall, that's what they used for robot air hockey. One we get the taste of controlling valves to actuate 2-way cylinders and/or motors, we can raise funds for a 12V hydraulic power unit which can be had for about $300 including reservoir and some valving. From there all we need is some hose and tubing, and I propose both a piston (~$60) and a motor (~150) so we can gain experience with the whole power loop needed for various projects. This is applicable to the CEB press, reverse trike, rocket thrust vectoring, well drilling, you name it. Just getting this basic technology under our belts would be pretty sweet and informative for alot of our people. I bet we could build a small drill rig for under a thousand bucks - groundwater harvesting, foundation drilling, secret stashing of cannon, plenty of options there. Anyway, just getting started is going to be a task of its own and I would propose picking something with a relatively short design-build-redesign cycle so we feel rewarded at regular intervals with a working machin e. On safety, I'm looking into veggie oil etc as hydraulic fluid since that stuff can be pretty nasty. Below are some links. Biodegradable hydraulic fluid: http://www.research.psu.edu/capabilities/documents/biohydraulic.pdf more info on different biofluid products: http://www.technologylubricants.com/Technical/Rexroth_90221_1.pdf On another note, I returned my car to an operational state recently and having never worked on a car (this was my first time to even change my own oil) it was interesting to open the hood with a freshly installed knowledge of some of the components, and actually feel like I had a rough idea of what was going on and how to debug the mechanical/electrical problems that I encountered. A cool project if we ever do incorporate an internal combustion engine would be a custom ECU using whatever standard automotive sensors etc we can get off the shelf and some creative 8-bit math. Any objections to designing around second-hand 90's volvo components? Cheers, Hol _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi

I have an OBDII to bluetooth adapter that i use to check for engine codes and sensor faults. there's a mode where you can set memory registers directly but i didn't mess with it. is it typically just the ECU that uses canbus and all the sensors plug into the ECU? a canbus-TTL serial adapter is best for interfacing with arduino. as for purchasing things for use as a commodity, would you like to buy some wire and scrap steel from me? on May 23, 2013, *Anthony Di Franco* <di.franco(a)gmail.com> wrote: Not offhand, but it can be purchased as a commodity and scrutinized if needed. There's a hydraulics shop around 56th and San Pablo and I stopped in once to chat and the people were friendly and helpful. Here's canbus to usb for $10, bluetooth is also available, arduino may be just around the corner from this. Latency would hopefully not be too large to preclude usefulness for control purposes: http://www.amazon.com/OBD2-Diagnostic-Cable-KKL409-1-VAG-COM/dp/B002WIN8VQ/ On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Hol Gaskill <hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi