[sudo-discuss] shotspotter will be discontinued
GtwoG PublicOhOne
g2g-public01 at att.net
Fri Mar 14 17:18:16 PDT 2014
Re. Max B:
1) If you want to propose an experiment to test the hypothesis, I'm all
ears. However it's already well established in criminology that the
best deterrent to crime is the swiftness and sureness of getting caught.
The fact that shooting someone is an irrational action doesn't matter if
the shooter is irrational, impulsive, strung out on meth, or jonesing
for a fix. Really now, do you think robbers & street gang members sit
around discussing philosophy & science? "What do you think about the
Higgs boson?" "I think we're still pretty far from having a unified
field theory. Now let's go out and find someone to rob, OK?"
For some people, being sufficiently scared of the police is the only
thing that will stop them doing violent crimes. Go look up
"psychopathy" and "sociopathy", do some reading and get back to us.
Social justice reduces crimes of desperation such as the often-cited guy
who sticks up a store to get money to feed his kids. Social justice
doesn't do squat for predatory crimes committed by sociopaths & psychopaths.
2a) Shotspotter effectiveness: If there's a question about
effectiveness, you should be supporting efforts to make it more effective.
2b) Shotspotter abuse: If shotspotter is being used for "other
purposes," that can be stopped via city ordinances regulating its uses.
What I'd like to see is for shotspotter to also respond to the sound of
a particular combination of audio frequencies that can be produced by
whistles the city could issue to members of neighborhood watch groups
and persons with well-founded fears of violent crime. Better still if
the frequencies were ultrasonic.
3) Red herring. The vast majority of Oakland residents are far more
afraid of getting robbed, raped, carjacked, shot in a drive-by, etc.,
than they are of being "oppressed by the police." Crime is a form of
oppression, and inadequate public safety is also a form of oppression.
Criminals oppress their neighbors. Think about that.
Ask a few single moms in the tough sections of town about how they and
their kids have had to change their behavior to reduce their risk.
"Can't play outside after school" is oppression. "Can't visit friends
after dark" is oppression. "Have to look out for who's on the street
before I walk to the store" is oppression. "Crack house / gang house
next door" is oppression. "Lay down in the bath tub because there are
bullets flying" is oppression. And failure to see how those forms of
oppression are oppressing people, is just enabling more of the same
types of oppression.
-G.
=====
On 14-03-14-Fri 4:45 PM, Max B wrote:
> Oh boy there are a bunch of things here:
>
> 1. "Minus shotspotter, shootings will increase, guaranteed." - To call
> this unfounded is being polite. There are significant sentencing
> enhancements for crimes that are perpetrated with guns in the state of
> California. These people are potentially facing years in prison.
> Shooting a gun in these situations is an entirely irrational action.
> You're perpetuating the notion that if we just make people more scared
> of the police, they'll be less likely to participate in violent crime,
> and it's bogus theory.
>
> 2. It's not clear to me that shotspotter was particularly good at
> discerning between gun shots and other loud noises, or at least that it
> was used for other purposes:
> http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/video/7473317-oakland-police-use-shotspotter-to-find-illegal-fireworks/
> This is typical surveillance mission creep.
>
> 3. It might be hard for some of the folks on this list to understand,
> but for communities who have been the consistent target of state and
> police violence, there is a very reasonable fear of the cops. Whether or
> not you think that the police are the appropriate response to a
> particular given situation, by choosing to partner with the police in
> any way, we are making a specific galvanizing decision. Sudoroom (and
> hackers, and new residents to west oakland) will be judged by these
> sorts of decisions, and in this case, I think that perception is a real
> and important thing to take into consideration.
>
>
> Of all of the projects that really have the possibility to make Oakland
> a more peaceful city, I think it's likely that this is money and time
> poorly spent.
>
> On 03/14/2014 04:21 PM, Jake wrote:
>> So Gabby are you saying that a person who fires a gun in the city has a
>> right to privacy that is more important than the community's right to
>> share that information?
>>
>> also, if you object to calling the police on people who are shooting
>> guns in the city, do you have an alternate suggestion or are you
>> volunteering to do something about it yourself?
>>
>> for what its worth, i am not suggesting that the data from a system we
>> build would be sent to only the police, but rather to everyone who wants
>> to know where and when shots are being fired.
>>
>> -jake
>>
>> On Fri, 14 Mar 2014, Gabrielle Silverman wrote:
>>
>>> You realize it would be extremely controversial if Sudo was involved
>>> in building something that called the police on people,
>>> right?
>>>
>>> I'm just saying...
>>>
>>> Gabby
>>>
>>> On Mar 14, 2014 3:49 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>>> If combined with a lightning detector and an acceleromter it
>>> could pinpoint lightning, earthquakes and large trucks.
>>> Also noise pollution mapping. Also add speakers and you could
>>> use it in reverse to get steer cops around oakland like
>>> a laggy rc car parade.
>>>
>>> On Friday, March 14, 2014, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>> i can't tell if you replied to the list or just privately
>>> to me.
>>>
>>> that sounds like it would be fun, but it would be more
>>> worthwhile if there were a larger goal to be
>>> accomplished, ideally with funding.
>>>
>>> it wouldn't be trivial - what is the right way to record
>>> timestamps onto an audio recording from a GPS?
>>> perhaps use one of the two audio channels as a SMPTE
>>> timing track? that's kinda ridiculous but there's
>>> probably lots of code already written...
>>>
>>> On Fri, 14 Mar 2014, Hol Gaskill wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd be down to make a few time of flight receivers
>>> with you.
>>>
>>> on Mar 14, 2014, Jake <jake at spaz.org> wrote:
>>> what do people think of the shotspotter system
>>> installed in oakland?
>>>
>>> it's a network of microphones on telephone
>>> poles, each with a GPS (for
>>> a precise clock) and a network connection.
>>> When a gunshot-like sound is
>>> detected, they send the sound and its precise
>>> timing to a central server
>>> that determines the location of the shot, and
>>> tells the police to go
>>> there.
>>>
>>> some people have expressed concern that the
>>> microphones are used to spy on
>>> people, but it would be impossible to hear a
>>> conversation from the top of
>>> a telephone pole that wasnt already loud
>>> enough to be heard inside nearby
>>> houses (or the phone in your pocket).
>>>
>>> apparently the city pays $264,000 per year to
>>> keep shotspotter going. I
>>> think sudoroom people could do it for much
>>> less if they thought it was a
>>> useful thing. They would be discontinuing it
>>> to save money, or perhaps to
>>> avoid having to send cops to do actual work
>>> once in a while...
>>>
>>> i mean.. sending police toward the gunfire?
>>> sounds like a good idea...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Oakland-cops-aim-to-scrap-gunfire-detecting-5316060.php
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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