[sudo-discuss] [omni-mediation] Today 4/4/15: Pidgen and Daren have been temp banned for safer spaces policy violations

Wed Apr 8 13:56:34 PDT 2015

 "write a letter about the impact of the particular issue that their
behavior is raising." I think this could be one good thing for Darin to do.

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 1:55 PM, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods at gmail.com>
wrote:

> "But I do know there are people avoiding the space,
> peaceful people never in conflict,
> who are put off by your presence WildCat, and fearful of it...
> ...is that the power you want"
>
> Can you describe who these people are and why they are "put off"?  I know
> some people are "put off" that I am utilizing the Safer Spaces Policy and
> confront behaivors that I find problematic but I think that there are some
> people "put off" because they don't know me, understand where I am coming
> from, and or feel vulnerable because they behaive oppressively themselves
> fear accountability. . For instance Rob said that I was acting "like a cop"
> implying that I was acting authoritarian.  .The way that he put it,
> triggered and offended me deeply because of my experiences being brutalized
> and tortured for acting justly. The police do not hold people accountable
> for issues of oppression, they enforce oppression on the world. Though I
> understand that I sometimes I can be better about being constructive with
> my criticism, I feel that my utilization of the Safer Spaces Policy has
> been legit.He said that he thought I he was worried that I was against
> all men. I responded by telling him that I know a lot of good men that the
> issue is not men but patriarchal/trans-misogynist behaivor that I also have
> to keep in check myself (being that I was socialized to be a straight male
> by my father and the Church but through a process of self realization and
> criticism I have begun unsocializing my self of oppressive behaviors and
> have begun in process of transitioning and coming out as a
> queer/transperson.)
>
> Rachel, I know you have a lot of hope in changing people but I can see
> that creating a lot of problems if we spend so much time trying to do that
> rather than get work done in the OMNI. I have little energy to be in
> mediation processes with defensive/unaccountable people who have greater
> issues of oppression like Doc who is a open National "Anarchist"
> (contradiction) White Supremacist. You ( Rachel)  have expressed that you
> would him like to continue being a part of the space. He has said this like
> "We shouldn't have any immigrants." and "Nuke the Middle East." "National
> Socialists (Nazis) were the first Socialists." Honestly your defense of him
> makes me trust you less because I see your rushed process of "restorative
> justice" as have a certain amount of complacency with oppressive behavior.
> People can call me whatever but one thing I know is that I am not
> complacent with issues of oppression. That means if someone tells me that I
> am being oppressive I will spend a lot of time listening and self reflect
> on ways I can be accountable to their concerns. So regardless I will
> continue to work and be accountable to my community but I am not willing to
> compromise the safety and liberation of the community so that we can "hand
> hold" for oppressive people. I don't believe it is the responsibility of
> the survivors or oppressed in a particular conflict to "teach" the
> oppressor. That responsibility should fall on those who have greater
> privileges and the perpetrator to be self aware and change themselves. No
> oppressive person will change unless they are willing to do commit to a
> lifetime of self-criticism and awareness.
>
>
> *With Darin I am in conversation with FNB Joe about coming up with a
> constructive resolution. To be accountable to the process I am willing to
> meet with a larger circle of people to come up with a community agreement
> about to help Darin grow out of his oppressive behavior and history. *
>
> "Likewise, past what point can we agree that someone has NOT worked on
> their shit, and we shouldn’t bother wasting our time on it anymore? Some
> accountability processes drag on for months and years, diverting collective
> energy from other more fulfilling and useful ends. One stubborn sexist can
> sour an entire scene on making good faith efforts to hold folks
> accountable—which goes to show how important it is to know when to end an
> attempted process before it drags everyone down with it. If we’re going to
> invest so much time and energy in these processes, we need a way to assess
> if it’s worthwhile, and when to admit failure.
>
> Perpetrator accountability is not an easy or short process… It takes a
> lifelong commitment to change behaviors that are so deeply ingrained; it
> requires consistent effort and support. When talking about follow-up, we
> should be making schedules for weeks, but also talking about checking in
> after months and years. It takes that kind of long-lasting support to make
> real transformation possible. Let’s be frank: if we expect people to remain
> involved in an accountability process for some scumbag they don’t even like
> for years, and we expect this as a norm for an increasing number of
> processes for different people, who may or may not be cooperative—we are
> not setting a realistic standard. That’s not to say that the article is
> wrong; transformation of patriarchal and abusive behavior patterns is a
> lifelong process. But is it really a surprise that we fail to sustain these
> difficult, unrewarding processes stretching over such lengths of time, when
> few anarchists in our scene follow through on long-term commitments to even
> our most fervent passions? What can we realistically commit to doing?"
>
> " -
> https://ia902307.us.archive.org/21/items/AccountingForOurselves/accounting-for-ourselves_screen.pdf
>
>
> Here are some other great resources:
> http://www.phillyspissed.net/sites/default/files/what%20to%20do%20when%20someone%20tells%20you.pdf
>
>
>
> https://inciteblog.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/why-misogynists-make-great-informants-how-gender-violence-on-the-left-enables-state-violence-in-radical-movements/
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Rachel Wolfsohn <rawjnana at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Darin is being held accountable to all of us,
>> I say it like it is to Darin and he's working hard at mediation and
>> counseling.
>> That IS the process
>> Bans protect people and incentivize mediation.
>> Darin is already going through that mediation and should be given the
>> chance to be counseled and improve. Jumping in barely a couple weeks after
>> mediation has begun isnt giving him due time...
>>
>> And others who have been hurt by Darin generally still come around and
>> just don't engage with him,
>>  in fact I hang out with such friends who were not scared away from the
>> space because of him
>> e.g. Babs when she's alone or with people who don't have conflict with
>> Darin,
>>  who see him pass and ignore him, as he does them. Because they do not
>> fear him,
>> Often it is other feelings, many others, including negative ones, I see,
>> but not fear of Darin
>> Until such time as Darin is ready to engage peacefully again, this is
>> sufficient to me...
>>
>> But I do know there are people avoiding the space,
>> peaceful people never in conflict,
>> who are put off by your presence WildCat, and fearful of it...
>> ...is that the power you want?
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 9:10 AM, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Helen what is your alternative for accountability?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:53 AM, Helen Finkelstein <hefinkel at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I strongly disagree.  Banning is too drastic a measure for the problems
>>>> that Darin has, and he has been making a serious effort to deal with them.
>>>>
>>>> There is long-standing hostility between Darin and Babs.   It would be
>>>> a mistake for the OMNI to get involved in it.   Darin, at least, just wants
>>>> to keep his distance.
>>>>
>>>> Helen
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 9:12 AM, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There has been many attempts to mediate with Darin but still he is
>>>>> unaccountable. Therfore I think he needs  to be banned so that he can take
>>>>> these issues in his life a little more seriously. Helen what is the
>>>>> conflict that y'all are mediating?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 6:32 PM, Kevin Laird <thegayscience at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> whoops. Always read to the end of the thread first...   -K
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 6:32 PM, Kevin Laird <thegayscience at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would speak with Darin. I would need to speak with whomever has
>>>>>>> been working with him in the past first, is there an extant point
>>>>>>> person/mediator/steward? Plz fwd me contacts or names.
>>>>>>>   tracy I understand your frustrations, and yours as well, cat
>>>>>>> person, but making the future happen requires a lot of patience!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>                 -K
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 5:04 PM, niki <niki.shelley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Adding the mediation mailing list to this thread in the hopes that
>>>>>>>> someone will step forward to steward these conflicts towards whatever ends
>>>>>>>> are in the community's best interest.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <3
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Niki
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 3:37 PM, WIld Cat <
>>>>>>>> wildcatofthewoods at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> These are community issues not personal issues.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Tracy Jacobs <
>>>>>>>>> kinetical at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sudoers,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Respectfully can I suggest that you find another way to address
>>>>>>>>>> issues of a personal nature and character assassinations or public shaming
>>>>>>>>>> other than this public mailing list?  Why anyone would want to go to Sudo
>>>>>>>>>> room after reading this  mailing list is beyond my comprehension.  And it
>>>>>>>>>> really is a great place.  Can anyone think of another venue for these types
>>>>>>>>>> of discussions?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>>>>> On Apr 4, 2015, at 2:41 PM, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Daren returned to the space about 20 mins after trying to
>>>>>>>>>> re-enter and said to me " Do you want to go a couplwe blocks away from here
>>>>>>>>>> and handle this like an adult."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pidgen is claiming that I threatened her and I did tell her that
>>>>>>>>>> "you need to chill out or some shit is going to happen" but I also
>>>>>>>>>> clarified by saying "I am not threatening you with any form of violence."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Darin is claiming that Babs sexually assaulted someone but Darin
>>>>>>>>>> did not give any details of what happened.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 2:00 PM, WIld Cat <
>>>>>>>>>> wildcatofthewoods at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Today Pidgen was asked to leave in violation of the safer spaces
>>>>>>>>>>> policy on an admitted account of sexual assault in the past as well as
>>>>>>>>>>> recent behaviors of harassment. Daren was asked to leave in violation of
>>>>>>>>>>> the safer spaces policy by aggressive  behavior (aggressive swearing,
>>>>>>>>>>> intentional misgendering, inappropriate sexual comments (Told me in an
>>>>>>>>>>> aggressive way that he liked phone sex, than began to yell at me.) He has
>>>>>>>>>>> had a history of being banned from spaces for similar behaviors of sexual
>>>>>>>>>>> harassment and inappropriate behavior.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to begin a mediation process for Daren and I do not
>>>>>>>>>>> feel safe with him being in the space during such process.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To my knowledge there is an ongoing mediation between Pidgen and
>>>>>>>>>>> Centi. that Pidgen has allegedly violated due to harassing behavior. Pidgen
>>>>>>>>>>> has been banned from several other radical spaces for entitlement problems
>>>>>>>>>>> - theft - aggressive behaivor - accountability issues.
>>>>>>>>>>> I do not feel safe in the presences of Pidgen and would call on
>>>>>>>>>>> the community to permanently ban Pidgen.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss at lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> mediation mailing list
>>>>>>>> mediation at lists.omnicommons.org
>>>>>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/mediation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> mediation mailing list
>>>>> mediation at lists.omnicommons.org
>>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/mediation
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mediation mailing list
>>> mediation at lists.omnicommons.org
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> <3 Rachel
>>
>
>
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