[sudo-discuss] [BAPS-Organizing] Re: [omni-building] [omni-discuss] Accessibility Liaison?

Tue Apr 21 12:10:20 PDT 2015

I actually *do* believe that this can be dealt with in a practical and
reasonable way which is why I put this to the list.

I admit exasperation, however, with the critique that the community just
doesn't care enough / is not sufficiently interested in making the space
accessible.

The community is not some amorphous / boundless resource *nor* is it some
perfect ideological object.

It's real human beings in real space / time navigating all manner of
confusing / complicated relationships.

I guess I was hoping that someone would be interested in assisting with
addressing these concerns practically even if it's only to identify what we
can / cannot do rather than simply write it off as yet one more way in
which we're failing every day to live up to our "values".

I think it's reasonable to say that we haven't found someone who has the
time / energy to take this on right now and that people who have concerns
around these issues should perhaps wait to engage with us until we're in a
more solid place.

N

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 11:31 AM, Brad Borevitz <brad.borevitz at gmail.com>
wrote:

> can these issues be dealt with in a practical and reasonable way without
> resorting to the exasperated cop out reference to ideological
> perfectionism? and why all the antagonism?
>
> if there are limited resources (and there are) then real issues need to be
> prioritized and dealt with in turn according to some sense of what is most
> important and what effects the most people. can the case be made that
> addressing chemical sensitivity is urgent and should be prioritized over
> other concerns?
>
> chemical sensitivity is a controversial diagnosis without support from
> science based medical organizations like AMA or WHO. i don’t know much
> about it but from a quick wikipedia search it looks like there is some
> evidence that it can be psychosomatic. which is not to say it isn’t real or
> current science could be wrong, just that there doesn’t now seem to be any
> consensus or compelling evidence. that might explain some people’s
> dismissal.
>
> but if there are potentially dangerous chemicals (maybe occupational
> health as safety regulations should be a guide here) being used around the
> omni without adequate ventilation and without informing people of where and
> when they might be exposed to these, that seems like an immediate issue. at
> the very least those using such chemicals, should have an obligation to
> notify others (signs and disclosure to omni general meeting) and a making a
> plan to isolate, mitigate and provide necessary ventilation.
>
> and if perfume bothers people then those using it should be made aware and
> act with some consideration of other people around them. it’s just like
> being loud. in a crowded space that is shared without good ways to
> partition and isolate activities, we should be aware of the way we effect
> each other as we use the space. these distractions, though they may be at
> the level of annoyance rather than emergency, have real effects on the
> ability of the space to be effectively shared. take them seriously, but
> don’t exaggerate their significance by making them emotionally laden
> contests over control, authority, attention ...
>
> b
>
>
> On Apr 21, 2015, at 10:52 AM, niki <niki.shelley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ok. I will write her back and tell her that because not every person who
> enters the doors of the Omni is able to occupy a place of absolutely pure
> ideological perfection, we will not be addressing these issues in any
> meaningful way.
> >
> > N
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 10:31 PM, Ryan <yandoryn at gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's not just one person or one situation. And it's not always in an
> aggressive way. And it's not just an issue of not caring (although I have
> experienced that). It's an issue of feasibility.
> >
> > I've heard snowball arguments. I know that Material Print Machine tries
> their hardest to be chemically sensitive but cannot function without some
> volatile chemicals that can cause problems.
> >
> > If we got some serious ventilation going on, maybe we'd be able to deal
> with CCL and sudo. But the 3D printers could be an issue.
> >
> > And the few times I've tried to broach this subject, I have hit hard
> walls. I've also had a lot of support. But I've also heard a lot of people
> basically say "it'd be too hard to care about such a small minority."
> >
> > I just think that anyone who is going to be dealing with this at the
> Omni needs to know that not everyone is on board and that they're going to
> hear some really insensitive stuff. From people you might not expect. My
> request to have the Omni ban simply spraying of perfume in the space left
> me in tears about ready to leave the space because of reactions like this
> from many members.
> >
> > I did have a specific issue with one member who I try not to interact
> with now, who followed me out and proceeded to become aggressive and tell
> me I can't survive in the real world, but that was handled for the most
> part. That's not the issue, though.
> >
> > I don't know. My brain isn't really functioning well (brain fog yay) but
> I think anyone dealing with accessibility at the Omni, especially things
> people are less versed in than physical (which is bad enough to deal with)
> should be well aware that while some people may be totally on board, there
> are some people who are solidly against.
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Laura Turiano <scylla at riseup.net>
> wrote:
> > I would like to know who said that, Ryan, so that we can have a
> conversation with them about their attitude.
> >
> > Laura
> >
> >
> > On 4/19/15 8:09 PM, Ryan wrote:
> >> The consistent reaction I've gotten from the community at large is "We
> don't actually care about people with chemical sensitivities and would
> actively block any attempts to make the space more accessible to those with
> respiratory problems who are 'asking too much.'"
> >>
> >> So, it might be best to be honest with her, rather than pretend like
> the Omni is actually going to actively work to be accessible.
> >>
> >> Sorry if this sounds pessimistic, but eh.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 8:06 PM, niki <niki.shelley at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hello friends,
> >>
> >> Someone came in today who was very concerned with our efforts to make
> our space truly accessible - she was particularly concerned with building
> improvements and the impact on those with chemical sensitivities. She was
> also concerned with the sound system at today's event as there were some
> issues w/it that made it difficult for people to hear.
> >>
> >> She asked us to not use any materials that will inhibit those with
> chemical sensitivities from accessing the space and to create communication
> around our accessibility and needs.
> >>
> >> She asked to see our plan for how we will do this. We don't have this
> scoped out currently and I'm wondering if someone would be willing to take
> on the task of researching this issue and making recommendations to the
> building Working Group as well as drawing up a basic outline for providing
> greater accessibility.
> >>
> >> Can someone volunteer for this?
> >>
> >> xo
> >>
> >> N
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> discuss mailing list
> >> discuss at lists.omnicommons.org
> >> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> building mailing list
> >>
> >> building at lists.omnicommons.org
> >> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/building
> >
> >
> >
> >
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