Meeting Notes 2013-10-02

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Emails between Eddan and Marc

I'm not sure where the meeting notes for this meeting went, but I originally submitted this as part of the meeting notes and so now I'm putting it here as the only remaining part of the meeting notes since it seems like no other meeting notes were logged to the wiki. (Juul (talk))

In the following the emails are annotated with headlines and my comments (not part of the original emails) are annotated in parentheses. (Juul (talk))

Eddan's PostScript Note on the Misleading Portrayal of this Incident

It is worth noting that the email Marc sent to the CCL list was intentionally talking behind another member's back since Eddan is not on the CCL list. The direct insults, purposeful exclusion, and total misunderstanding of what was actually going on - should also be considered. I had only seen this page a while after it was written up. Another example of misleading, one-sided presentation of issues. This is bad faith. - Eddan

Marc's Final Email Non-Apology

This was the last thing Marc said about this issue on the mailing list. Before you read any of the crap back and forth - one should understand that Marc was completely mistaken about what was said, how it was said, and what it meant.


Ok. I understand if you want to be taken off the lease. I was trying to figure out if I had missed some collective decision-making around this issue, since I didn't realize if we'd directly made the decision to terminate the lease (did we? i'm still not clear on that?).

I feel that maybe it would have been a good idea to send a quick note to the list like "hey i'm planning to terminate sudo room's lease for these reasons", but no harm done. We were going to renegotiate the lease anyway, and almost certainly before the date you gave the landlords for sudo-lease termination.

-- Marc

For what was actually going on

this is from di Franco & Hol on the mailing list.

To try to help answer the question of what exactly happened and what the implications are, let me quote from Eddan's email, emphasis mine (archived here):

“Terminating the current lease means the latter, David. That is - at that point, a new/better lease can be negotiated. Or not, if so decided. While the details on what a co-op purchase would look like still have to be hammered out in detail, it was my understanding from George that he was interested in an arrangement that would include selling off equity in that portion. Different organizations would put up money in their collective shares and that wing would be organized as a co-op with the different organizational/individual owners taking part in the decision-making of managing the building.”

and from Hol's email, (archived here): “I think we've been fortunate to have people (Eddan, Matt, Zach) put their name down in the lease and assume a degree of liability for operations. I interpret the notice to George as a move that is not binding on sudo room in any way, but one that A) allows Eddan and presumably Matt to relinquish their "doing business as" status to a better defined group, B) informs George that his behavior toward tenants will not be met with guaranteed continued tenancy, and C) puts a fire under all of our asses to solve the space/access/community issues elegantly, either by finding a new space or by coming to an agreement and a way forward at 2141. These are just my thoughts, with a grain of salt on specifics as I haven't been going to general meetings recently but I guess it's time to start doing that again since this is a matter of great importance.”


From me, on sudo room list

> I've given notice to George & Laurie that we are terminating
> the current lease at the end of December. 
> George said he was interested in putting up the 
> Sudo Room section of the building for co-op sale.

Did sudo room agree to do this or did you just decide to go out and do this on your own?

(It seems that sudo room did not agree. This is a problem.)

From me, on Counter-culture labs list

> I think your concerns are valid, Matt.  
> But before we assuming that we're in a situation where 
> good money follows bad, we should prolly do some 
> due diligence and figure out what's really going on 
> with an in-person meeting with Eddan and Matt and 
> perhaps even (god forbid) a meeting with George 
> and Laurie as well as a follow on.  

(So now CCL folks got very confused, because terminating the
 lease goes against what we'd agreed to pursue with them
 at the tri-group meeting.)

I want to chime in real quick with an important note: 
Please don't assume that Eddan is in any position of 
leadership or decision-making power in sudo room. 
He is not active in sudo room, nor has he been doing 
anything for or with sudo room for the past several months, 
except to show up for the past few meetings and make 
unrealistic suggestions about buying the whole 
building where sudo room is currently located.

(CCL folk were assuming that Eddan was a person to talk to
 about what sudo room is and will be doing. 
 This is a problem, since Eddan has just shown that he is
 somewhat disconnected from the reality of the situation.)

(Now come the emails from Eddan.
 I did not reply privately, and made only one reply on the list. 
 which is included at the end.)

private email to me from Eddan

Sorry if I misunderstood you, Marc. But you'll remember from 
the last several meetings that despite efforts to mitigate 
the issue with George, you said emphatically that there was 
no way you were OK with having to deal with George. 
I pressed you on it, several times, and you were clear 
about your dissent veto of any other effort. 

Also, over the last 3 meetings, as noted in the minutes, 
it was decided to remove individuals (such as myself) 
from the lease. I am totally on favor of this, 
primarily because of the multiple times Jenny 
has attacked me about this aggressively.

Can't have it both ways, Marc.

sudo-discuss email from Eddan

It was also based on your emphatic veto on any mitigating 
solution that involved any contact with our landlord in 
the last several meetings. As well as the decision, 
trailing back to three consecutive meetings, where it 
was decided to remove individual names for the lease.

My apologies if I misunderstood you, Marc. I assumed 
you were being sincere.

(I never vetoed anything)

private email to me from Eddan

how dare you!?!

the only reason i have not been coming around lately is 
because you and Jenny have explicitly made me feel 
unwelcome and have threatened me over and over again.
the last straw was when jenny made up some pathological 
scenario at a bar and told the bartender that i was 
harassing her after she started yelling at me.
i am planning to bring this up at this week's meeting 
to ask that jenny be suspended from sudo room. 

(I have never threatened Eddan. I do not think Jenny
 has threatened Eddan. The only "threat" I can really
 imagine Jenny making is for Eddan to stay away
 from her. I was not at the bar, but
 the accounts that I have been given are very 
 different from his. I have been unwelcoming
 only so far as I have still greeted and had
 brief but neutral conversations with Eddan,
 like asking how he's been.)

sudo-discuss email from Eddan

how dare you!?!
please stop the personal attacks.
you make  a big fuss about moving and you veto any 
solution where we have to deal with the landlord. 
and then when we follow your leadership, you double back. 
what's the deal, marc?

(I am sure that i made myself very clear at the past
 meetings that i was not vetoing anything, and that
 i would go with the group decision.
 We did not make a group decision to terminate the lease.)

sudo-discuss email from Eddan

maybe you should also share with the group our discussion 
about how if anything happened at sudo room, i would be 
the one that would have to worry about liability. 
that seemed fine with you. what kind of person are you, marc?

(I have never opposed taking Eddan off the lease
 and I have supported suggestions to get liability insurance)

sudo-discuss email from Eddan

i totally agree that we should keep cool.
which is why i suggested, with enough lead time to 
make something real happen, that we re-visit the lease.

i was not concerned about liability until several 
specific comments made by Marc that made me worry 
about some plan he seemed to be hatching up.

(... i have no clue)

also, though i understand that it most likely comes 
from Marc's strange attachment to demonstrating he's 
in charge at Sudo Room, when it is supposed to be a 
collective cooperative, i do feel the need to explain 
myself given the gross mischaracterization Marc seems 
capable of. the reason i was not as present this past 
summer as i'd hoped to be was because i was taking the 
CA bar so we can actually deal with the pending legal 
issues Sudo Room.

(Eddan canceled sudo room's lease without waiting for
 a group decision, yet I am the one with a strange
 attachment to demonstrating that I am in charge.
 I know that the CCL email was somewhat harsh,
 but it was, in my opinion, the truth with the bullshit 
 cut out. I want everyone to realize how serious this
 really is: Eddan may have ruined our chances at having 

OK - below I'm going to also list the extent to which Marc demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of the basic terms of what renting a place. Everything in this section is so bogus that Marc should be embarrased to have written it.
-Eddan
 shared space with CCL. I do not feel inclined to make
 allowances or excuses for his failings.)