Mesh/10 July 2018

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People's Open Network Weekly Meeting - 10 July 2018 7:30pm-9pm


  • Introductions and Meeting Roles (10 mins)
  • Check in on previous action items (5 mins)
  • Updates & Reportbacks (20 mins)
  • Proposal: Stale Issues Bot (10min)
  • Proposal: Reimbursements for conference registrations
  • Next Sunday (5 mins)
  • Discussion: BYOI / Decentralized Web Summit Unconference (15 mins)
  • Discussion: Brainstorm best ways to improve peoplesopen-monitor (15 mins)
  • Action Items (5 mins)
  • Breakout Groups


Introduce yourself: Name; Preferred Pronoun; Icebreaker Response; BRIEF Announcements

  • Icebreaker question: What's your favorite Danish thing?
  • bengo - they/them or he/him - My favorite dutch thing is "going dutch."
    • isn't that a dutch thing?
      • dane - It's a dutch thing.
  • marc - he/him - all the free education
  • seth - he/him/they - fleas and lice - old band from Holland. I think they're from Amsterdam.
    • mai - so, favorite thing that's either danish or dutch?
  • cecilia - he/him/they/she - pastry! Danishes!
    • bengo - plain or fruity?
    • Fruity!
  • eve - she/her - a tv show called broen.
  • mai - she/her or they/them - Kierkegaard. Enjoyed his existentialist critique of organized religion in high school.
    • marc - his name literally means graveyard. He's in a beautiful graveyard.
  • eenblam (ben) - he/they, these bitters are pretty good. But I was gonna say Marc.

eve: cecilia is here because she is on the board of internet society like me, and came all the way from hayward

Meeting Roles

Check in on previous action items

Check previous meeting minutes at and past action items below:

  • start a wiki page for decentralized web unconference [jenny]
  • follow up on insurance quote [jenny]
  • ping Beneficial re: bank account [jenny]
  • add lolspace mount details to trello and CC Mai - [jenny]
    • others available on Sunday - Mai, Eve, ?
      • even: I think I dropped the ball.
      • mai: no you didn't. Jnny was out of town. It just slipped. We were gonna do a diff node mount. I will follow up on that with Jnny about lolspace
  • follow up with Jonah and Devi (cc Mai and Marc) [jenny]
    • ben: is that the same Devi (sp?) at lolspace?
    • marc: no, internet archive
    • mai: jnny had heard from him about if we want to pu tgear on their tower, then soonish would be good because they'r eworking with people in Richmond on an open wifi project.
    • marc: you can follow up with me too. Are you connected with Jonah yet?
    • mai: I met him but not really. I didn't wanna go around Jnny since she's in touch already
  • draft e-mail to hackerspaces about what we are looking for to connect to Internet Archive (grant)
  • add benny to info@peoplesopen (grant)
    • done (
  • see who wants to meet about organizing the byoi-unconference (benny)
    • marc: decentralized web summit is coming up at internet archive. Happened two years ago for free. Can volunteer for discount. 800-900 people. Costs more this year so they can rent the Mint as a venue. Because so many people are flying in, we are having this unconference, and they will announce it at the DWS event so everyone can come hang out at this unconference.
    • mai: On Saturday, August 4th, in the morningish, we could do lightning talks, intro to project, and in afternoon have hackathon 1-6. Have a party at night, show what we made, party. Good to have time to show off what you made as incentive to work on things. Could do fundraiser. To be continued in agenda slot

Updates & Reportbacks


Priority bugs we need help with are located at: - For a high-level overview of recent Github activity, see the Trello:

  • marc - not formally logged, but seems like there's no documentation on the 24 hour password reset bug with autoconf.
    • cronjob runs every 24 hours
    • Idea: log in before then and change password. Otherwise, cronjob changes it for you.
    • Problem: If you don't remove the cronjob when you change your password, it just changes it again to something you don't know.
    • eenblam - let's just fix that tonight.
    • marc - have a tiny script for installing your ssh public key onto a node to bypass these quirks

About ISOC

  • marc: cecelia, eve, would you like to talk about the internet society?
    • cecilia: We recently had several people ask for grants about agri-internet. A lot of cali/US is rural, and don't have goo dintenret access in rural areas. e.g. a place in Santa Barbara wanted a grant to provide affordable connectivity. We thought that is a great project, did'nt get grant this time, but they should stick with it for next year, as should sudomesh, and stay aware of what other groups in California and usa are working on. e.g. some people want 'tele-health' solutions so peopl ein remote areas have connectivity to use the internet to talk with a doctor even when hostpitals are far away. Such solutions could be shared with whole US and world. ACM Compass conference, we were invited to. I attended at Facebook HQ for a copule days, one day at SJ Tech Museum. A lot of programmers, coders came together to talk about their projects. Much academia. Cool health care analytics project coming out of Chicago. Talked about how to make the conference bigger, get academics more publicity for their work. We want to build out the ISOC brand in San Francisco to get more people involved and understand this bigger ecosystem of increasing internet connectivity. We want to hold more events, thinking about what kinds. We were hoping that we could partner with sudomesh to hold a two day workshop on how to build you rown internet. Maybe even more hands on. Just presentations don't engage as much as more hands-on stuff. ISOC could partner with sudomesh on that. We're envisioning a joint conference with ISOC, sudomesh, etc.
    • eve: last time I talked for a few minutes about what ISOC is.
    • ISCO is: a civil society org based here and in geneva: ensuring a free and open internet and home of IETF but overall not necessarily technical. sends members to the board of ICANN. In america there are a bunch of chapter. Even the bay area chapter feels too spread out. Partly why we had trouble putting events together. Eve: hard to decide where to hold ISOC events in Bay Area where people from all over the Bay will attend (SV, SF, East Bay all). I had this plan: My ISOC project would be to have an internet governance talk to people who know nothing about it. And have that discussion not in a coworking space but where 'ordinary' people would come to learn about 'who is in charge' of the internet. The types of questions Ted Cruz would ask.
  • Marc: People Centered Internet (Vint cerf's group) would be interested in this> All about recentering the internet toward the people that are using it.
  • Eve: I had an idea bout a teach-in. I don't know if it would make sense to combine with the BYOI but partnering around it somehow.
  • Cecilia: Help each-other bring visibility to each-others organizations
  • Mai: Totaly relevant to net neutrality debate. That would engage people. Talk about last mile connectivity. There are certain ways in which content and platform providers are coming into that conversation. I heard that Facebook is starting to work on meshy stuff.
  • Cecilia: it's not about just the talks. bridging the lecture / presentation and maybe the next part of it is more interactive where they can kinda see it in play. maybe that can help people getting involved with the organizations presenting. i work in the tech industry as well and i know that that's the kinda thing that people will go out and see (when they do go out).
  • bengo: when the isoc group is cooridnating and planning, how is that comms happening.
  • cecilia: it's a combination: we have distribution list for member swhere we send things out over eventbrite. we have a events again on meetup. we don't have a list of events yet because we're planning right now. if we do partner we're hoping to send out each-others events.
  • bengo: is that public?
  • cecilia: for meetups is public. eventbrite only goes out to members but it's free to be a member.
  • eve: ISOC gives out a grant every year
  • cecilia: planning session in washington dc every year where different chapters come together to talk about how ISOC can collaborate.
  • cecilia: the reason i'm bringing it up is: every large company has an org that does venture capitalism/funds/entrepeneurship and through that i learned that there are a lot of peoplein the are bay area opening up last mile network. they really want to compete with the big guys. no-one can really understand why it costs so much (there must be a better way). several startups are working on this.
  • mai: we're doing an even august so maybe if we can plan it two months in advance. maybe october?
  • bengo: for next week's agenda we should discuss this again

Node Mounts & Outreach

Node Mounts Trello:

  • Reed Bros
    • bengo: notes from last Thursday:
    • eenblam: We didn't do reed bros mount because we are losing sight of the reed bros building. A tree is growing in the way. There are also power lines. We should still try to link to Reed Bros, but it's not a great long term thing, especially as a path to get Paxio bandwidth. So we should look for another path to Paxio. I don't advise working a lot more on Reed Bros.
    • eve: what would the ideal path to paxio be?
    • ben: A tallish tower on Omni that can see over the thing sin the way.
    • jehan: i got in touch with retail leasing folks at MacArthur Commons. They forwarded me to management, but also mentioned that another *taller* building is going up in the lot next door. Also managed by them.
    • mai - I emailed Paxio explaining that StorQuest is asking us for too much money. Asked if they'd be okay with us using other sites. Didn't hear back, so I followed up again yesterday. Hopefully the donation isn't contingent on securing StorQuest.
  • <discussion about alternatives>
  • LOLspace?
  • West Oakland
    • Hearth - Need to coordinate with Jake.
    • Tom - standing by as we coordinate with Rolf and coordinate materials
    • Rolf - need contact info
  • bengo: If we had paxio bandwidth, what would we do with it. What could that unblock?
  • Disaster Radio nodes

Communications & Events

Comms Trello: // Events Trello:

  • BYOI / DWeb summit Unconference - Sat Aug 4 (discussions)

Internal Logistics / Finance

Internal Logistics & Bureaucracy Trello:

  • mai - we need ladders for node mounts. We would normally discussion this via #accounting-wg, but we're taking a break. Can we spend some cash on a ladder
    • consenso

Next Sunday

Node Mount

We try to arrange a rooftop node mount every Sunday afternoon. Ongoing spreadsheet is located at:

  • Next Sunday's mount: stay tuned in for irregularly scheduled mounts this week. Maybe Tom/Rolf, pending comms.

Office Hours

We host office hours every Sunday from 1-2pm in Sudo Room. To sign up for a shift, fill in your name here:

  • Next Sunday's volunteer: Seth
  • Notes from this past Sunday's session:
  • mai - related - on Sunday afternoon, Mary Jo & Terry will be meeting Chuck, who provides their internet! People mesh!

Proposal ( Add stale issues bot to sudomesh repos

  • to close stale issues
    • bengo: when I see a project with a github repo that has LOTS of issues that haven't been update for a long time I get a bad impression of the project
  • increase engagement on non-stale issues
  • automate administrative work
  • Make github repos look maintained
  • ben: why can't we have a "stale" tag so it can be differentiated from closed issues? It would still send notifications to people who were collaborating on the issue. Poke both issue filer and collaborators if filer is not a collaborator.
  • bengo: the poking aspect can be different from the "stale" tagging
  • jehan: Issues should only be closed for good reason.

Desired outcome: Move this proposal from 'New' to either 'Backlog' or 'Up Next' on this kanban board and assign project shepherd (or close the issue as #wont)

  • ACTION ( update that issue on the kanban

Proposal: Reimburse conference registration fees

  • Several members of PON are attending conferences this summer (specifically Our Networks and DWeb Summit). We have a line item in our annual budget to pay for event registration, and several Accounting WG members have approved this reimbursement.
  • Can we get a vote to approve the reimbursement of registration fees paid by those attending Our Networks and Dweb Summit?
  • eenblam - don't feel like we have quorum tonight. Can we use loomio to determine if we can cover those costs retroactively?
    • mai - Sure, although advance compensation would be preferable.
  • bengo - if folks go on the organization's dime, I think it's reasonable for us to expect members to evangelize for us and follow up with a debriefing for our group and/or a blog post
  • mai - I signed up for a table at the dweb science fair. Hopefully folks that attend will help evangelize.

Discussion: BYOI / Decentralized Web Summit Unconference

  • We're planning to have a BYOI following the DWeb summit on August 4th and/or 5th. Let's discuss and hack on the schedule/programming!
    • mai - I can start a thread on We already have the wiki page for the unconference
    • would be good to set a time for those interested to jam on that.
    • seth/bengo - good theme for office hours

Discussion ( brainstorm ways to improve

  • monitor has been one of the more active projects recently
  • what can you come up with as ways to improve it and make it more useful?
  • e.g.
    • What information would be useful to see on there?
    • What do you want to 'monitor' about the network at any point?
  • format: 5 minutes of silent brainstorming, then round-robin to hear everyone's ideas
    • share: what is your idea? On a scale of 1-10, how impactful/urgent do you think it is (to inform prioritization)?
  • bengo - seeing data over time would be good
    • eenblam - see #???

  • mai: translatin gthis jargon. What do these terms mean? Why does it matter?
  • eve: are there privacy concerns with IP addresses?
  • ben: Seeing if some node goes down? Did an exit node go up/down
  • bengo: Could be good to have an 'admin' section that requires authentication by a board member for prvacy-concerned thing
  • mai: what order are the table rows?
  • mai: could
  • seth: list services on the mesh
    • mai: how often they're being used
    • mai: let people opt out of being monitored
      • eve: that could make it hard to debug/run the network
    • ben: it is also commons infra.

Desired outcome: Have fun. Document ideas in the repo itself to inspire others who find repo online. Create project proposals and/or issues for high impact items.

Action Items

  • Share idea re: holding a BYOI with ISOC sometime in October 2018 (eve)
  • #software-wg on 07/17 (bengo)
    • Hack on StaleBot
    • Triage open issues
  • Create Loomio vote re: reimbursing people for conference reg fees (mai)

Breakout Groups

At the end of the meeting, break out into small groups to hack on or discuss specific topics.

Last Meeting Notes

  • link to previous meeting minutes

End of Meeting