Mesh/11 September 2018

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People's Open Network Weekly Meeting - 11 September 2018 7:30pm-9pm


  • Introductions and Meeting Roles (10 mins)
  • Check in on previous action items (5 mins)
  • Updates & Reportbacks (20 mins)
  • Next Sunday (5 mins)
  • Proposal X: (15 mins)
  • Discussion: Consensus group membership (15 mins)
  • Discussion Z (15 mins)
  • Action Items (5 mins)
  • Breakout Groups


Introduce yourself: Name; Preferred Pronoun; Icebreaker Response; BRIEF Announcements

  • Icebreaker question: what is your favorite licorice?
  • grant: he/they/whatever - hello, the one that I've tried. the green one
    • anarchist book fair is this saturday in the ballroom! second year it's been here.
    • cassady - before that it was at the humanist hall
  • benny: i'm benny, he him. i like the sweet licorice
  • null: them/they: i only tried one, the really salty one, more salty than sunflower seeds
  • marc - he/him, i like the super piratosty
  • Stacktaker:
  • Timekeeper:
  • Notetaker/s: juul


  • Grant: Anarchist book fair is here Saturday (9/15) in the ballroom. Some sudo mesh folks will be hanging out in sudo room to talk to people who are interested.
    • jenny: swag-making partay friday night? ^_^
    • (about being able to make it for swag-making) maybe: grant says maybe, benny says I cannot. marc says possibly.
    • benny - I can't make it :-((

Check in on previous action items

Check previous meeting minutes at and past action items below:

  • follow up w/ chuck again (benny)
    • he is out of town but gets back. benny will follow up with him. he needs to patch his node (tunneldigger patch)
  • airfiber mount ideas/status (marc)
    • marc - we tested the 24ghz airfibers on sunday and it was a success. now we have to the next step--figure out what we need to mount at paxio location. we don't know if we need a free standing mount, a poe box, etc.
    • jehan - where is it going to connect?
    • marc - here because the building we thought was going to block us is not actually going to block us.
    • grant - thinking the best mounting point will be the superstructure back there with a mast attached to it.
    • marc - we need a 3-4in pipe to bolt onto our building. something solid. let's do it next sunday! mai and I will reach out to paxio and figure out what they need from us. I think we can do that in parallel. This week we can order all the stuff we find out we need for their mount. If they reply quickly, we could have the iink up in less than two weeks.
    • jehan - i heard that there might be a taller building going up behind the macarthur commons--maybe should check bulding plans.
    • benny - how do you figure out what buildings are going up where?
    • jehan - go to city hall
    • null - planning comittee?
    • mai - yayyyyyyyy! let me know how you'd like to reach out to Paxio / tim pozar @juul.
    • marc - ok wll do
    • jenny - brilliant. see benny's excellent blog post: (for test mounting newayz)
  • make a loomio thread re: donating to Aspiration (jenny)
  • send out email requesting AirFiber hosting - jenny (nextdoor), eve (hams), ?
    • will do this week - sorry!
    • mai: think we decided to hold off anyway since there needed to be some discussion re: airfibers post-Sunday's test?
  • draft press release - jenny, you??
  • add new project proposal process proposal to Loomio as a poll (mai)
    • lesley - i mostly really supported the proposal, but i there were two major problems i saw. it felt weird that in loomio there wasn't a way to collaborate on suggestions besides saying yay or nay.
    • marc - maybe the discussion we're having right now is how it's supposed to work?
    • lesley - i liked bengo's idea of putting it on github.
    • marc - I think github is kind of hard to work with for new folks.
      • eenblam - +1. I think Github is critical for software contributions (and documentation for said software), but I don't want people to be shut out unnecessarily for stuff the wiki suffices for.
    • mai - As we'd decided to do last week, the proposal was put forth in loomio to get a temperature reading on it since folks weren't engaging on the discussion besides a few people. It's still up for comment/critique, which we hoped would happen on loomio so we could keep track of people's points and have documentation re: why we decided to move forward with whatever process we decided to give a try.
    • mini-discussion about how we make decisions
    • proposed change 1 - if there's a proposal that would give you money, you have to abstain from voting
    • everyone consensed
    • proposed change 2 - you shouldn't have to be there in person the following week after blocking--should just have to justify your block in language on loomio or in the pad notes
    • actual text for proposed change - Existing language -> If blocked, person who blocked must present their reasoning at the following Tues meeting. Add this text -> This can be done remotely.
      • jenny - mebbe reframe just as "must engage in discussion around reasons for block"?
      • eenblam - I think jorrit's push to reframe blocks was good. I like the idea of focusing on *building consensus*, even if there is some initial disagreement.
      • mai - +1 to jorrit's suggestion, particularly if there's broad agreement and only one or two who disagree. It probably wouldn't make sense for everyone to try to build consensus around something in which a majority of people voting don't think it's a project worth investing in.
      • mai - Can we add something about having blocks be done remotely? I've seen this problem where people who are not involved in a project get involved in decisions without showing up or engaging with the folks who are more newly involved. Like if they do block remotely, they should try to meet up with the person who's proposing at another time if the following Tues meeting isn't convenient?
      • marc: I feel like it doesn't matter which way we go because if we run into a failure mode then we'll just change the process
      • (broad agreement to keep the ability to offline block and bring it up and change it if we run into problems)
      • null: (asking about relationship between existing process for spending money)
      • scott - i think we should keep the propose remotely change
      • lesley - i agree and think it makes the process less ableist (e.g. people with social anxiety)
      • scott - I am interested in seeing a clearer definition or guideline of what kind of interaction is expected when you block a proposal to keep the proposal moving forward (e.g. e-mail? loomio? phone?)
  • add item to agenda re: consensus list membership (mai)
    • done, see below

Updates & Reportbacks


Priority bugs we need help with are located at: - For a high-level overview of recent Github activity, see the Trello:

  • grant - the monitor acts funny

Node Mounts & Outreach

Node Mounts Trello:

  • Jenny - Jonah got back to me today. \o/ We can meet him onsite at the tower on Thursday and/or he'll come to next Tuesday's meeting to discuss logistics :)
    • full reply: "Currently, we have towers on both 2512 Florida Ave and 380 Carlson, but our tower on the Carlson location isn't yet wired up/operational (We got conduit installed recently and I'm currently collecting a few quotes from folks we've worked with before to get a couple radios up there -- if you have recs for east bay folks who can do tower work, I'd love a referral).

I'll be onsite at both locations this Thursday (Sept 13) if anyone from your crew is in the area and wants to check out what we've currently got and what it would take to get some new stuff up and running? Otherwise I will plan on making it next Tuesday, Sept 18 for the meeting at Omni Commons and we can chat about strategies for finally getting this thing going!"

    • Can anyone make a site survey this Thursday and/or commit to being at meeting on Tues? Marc and I are leaving for denmark on the 18th. matthew from sudo has a videodrone we can borrow..
    • Benny - I could go on thursday and ill be here next tuesday too.
    • Juul - I want to go on thursday. (He may not show up on the following tuesday.)
    • jenny will reply to jonah and pin down a good time ^_^
  • grant - reed brothers is open whenever for us to come by. would be great learning experience for people. this could happen any time during the week.
    • anybody for friday or next week?
  • benny - i would go next week
  • marc - should we buy non-pentrating roof mounts to have in stock?
  • grant - yes!

Communications & Events

Comms Trello: // Events Trello:

  • grant: #somebodyshould make a new newsletter maybe once press release is written
  • benny:
  • lesley: institute for the future thing that a lot of people were going to be out of town for. i was thinking of going. anybody else interested?
    • jnny: note to check in with nic about whether we can use the 2 tix interchangeably over the 3 days
    • marc : whoever goes will be responsible for being near the disaster radio exhibit (which we havent finalized yet). fitz might be able to go. also hotel stay is included.
      • lesley: id be interested in learning more about disaster radio for the event, but give priority to people who are already more involved.
  • seth - I'd be up for working on the next newsletter if people show me some links / where to find things
  • grant - (sends links to seth)

Internal Logistics / Finance

Internal Logistics & Bureaucracy Trello:

Next Sunday

Node Mount

We try to arrange a rooftop node mount every Sunday afternoon. Ongoing spreadsheet is located at:

  • Next Sunday's mount: AirFiber on Omni?

Office Hours

We host office hours every Sunday from 1-2pm in Sudo Room. To sign up for a shift, fill in your name here:

Discussion: Consensus Group Membership

  • What should the process be for adding & removing members from the consensus group?
    • marc - outline for process. removal does not need consensus because that's impossible. needs 3/4 to agree instead. process for adding--in sudo room it used to be that you have to come to a meeting and answer some questions so people can get to know you. then there's four weeks, and if nobody blocks, then you're a member. sudo added a thing where you can get 3 people to sign off on you, and then you don't have to come to meetings, but it hasn't really been working.
    • lesley - maybe some number of node mounts?
    • grant - some contributors don't do node mounts. time seems good.
    • benny - maybe you should have to come to more than one meeting?
    • marc - one thing (e.g. office hours) and one meeting?
    • benny - maybe more, like 5 or 6?
  • Whats a better name than "Consensus Group"?
    • jnny - 'consensos'? 'decisores'? 'counsel'?
    • jehan - the ministry
    • marc - the tribunal
      • lesley - yes on tribunal (laughing)
    • marc - the wheel
    • benny - the decision wheel
    • grant - we're all spokes in the wheel
    • nanomonkey - meshy dis-members
    • grant - let's make a loomio ranked choice

Action Items

  • check in with nic about whether we can use the 2 tix interchangeably over the 3 days - juul
  • reply to jonah and pin down a good time for thursday site survey & coordinate w/ benny / marc / robb - jenny
  • submit budget request for non-penetrating roof mounts - grant? juul?
  • iterate on packet needed for getting an insurance quote - accounting wg
  • loomio poll on consensus group name

Breakout Groups

At the end of the meeting, break out into small groups to hack on or discuss specific topics.

Last Meeting Notes

End of Meeting