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Meeting Notes 2023-12-20 (view source)
Revision as of 03:31, 21 December 2023
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== FNB discussion == | == FNB discussion == | ||
* benny - fnb wants to approve | * benny - fnb wants to approve PP proposal. but i am coming here because i heard for some reason Sudo Room and CCL are meeting and i wanted to understand why | ||
* alex - we were planning to make a counterproposal, under impression we are not going to vote tomorrow. CCL is deciding to not want to work with PP either. i dont know where that leaves us | * alex - we were planning to make a counterproposal, under impression we are not going to vote tomorrow. CCL is deciding to not want to work with PP either. i dont know where that leaves us | ||
* jemma - SR and CCL did not meet together, rooms are conjoined. we could just over heard each other. | * jemma - SR and CCL did not meet together, rooms are conjoined. we could just over heard each other. | ||
* benny - the practicality of that is understandable. trying to find email, give me one sec. | * benny - the practicality of that is understandable. trying to find email, give me one sec. | ||
* alex - is FNB going to have any stipulations | * alex - is FNB going to have any stipulations? | ||
* benny - no we believe we are not in the position as an organization of FNB or a collective of | * benny - no we believe we are not in the position as an organization of FNB or a collective of collectives to run a space in a historically black area. not FNB official position. our position is all of the arguments against PP joining, we found were not substantiated by us interacting with them, or the organizations we have contacted about this. other people who have partnered with them in the past have provided any backup for claims we heard. we were satisfied with how abbas and delency responded to critiques of their politics. people who were in conversation were excited about PP coming to steward the space. our main objection is to avoid foreclosure. | ||
* jemma - other collectives are not trying to foreclose. there are options that are better for our existence going forward. our own interactions with the group, and their support of the boycott have been our concerns | * jemma - other collectives are not trying to foreclose. there are options that are better for our existence going forward. our own interactions with the group, and their support of the boycott have been our concerns | ||
* patrik - wondering if FNB had any discussion of other options considered, which include land trust and LLC. David Keenan said land trusts are still an option and he has connections to pull something like that off | * patrik - wondering if FNB had any discussion of other options considered, which include land trust and LLC. David Keenan said land trusts are still an option and he has connections to pull something like that off | ||
* benny - this might be a issue with how omni info is available to me, but thought we heard from Pallavi that there info is not substantial enough to be taken seriously. response to other proposals were a joke. someone with more financial literacy. | * benny - this might be a issue with how omni info is available to me, but thought we heard from Pallavi that there info is not substantial enough to be taken seriously. response to other proposals were a joke. someone with more financial literacy. | ||
* patrik - that is not what she said in the meeting. those options were not fleshed out yet, just like PP was not as fleshed out | * patrik - that is not what she said in the meeting. those options were not fleshed out yet at that meeting, because first discussion, just like PP was not as fleshed out meeting before that one. | ||
* benny - might be emotional language, but 100% true that she said other proposals brought up were a joke. response as our understanding to other proposals - everything else aside, we are in favor of the peoples program proposal. it is important that we are not excluding a black org based on politics. not trying to invalidate peoples other experiences. even the other things aside, our preference is against foreclosure and in favor of peoples programs | * benny - might be emotional language, but 100% true that she said other proposals brought up were a joke. response as our understanding to other proposals - everything else aside, we are in favor of the peoples program proposal. it is important that we are not excluding a black org based on politics. not trying to invalidate peoples other experiences. even the other things aside, our preference is against foreclosure and in favor of peoples programs | ||
* william - whats been shown tonight that CCL has chosen based off political issues, and SR is concerned about safety and intention issues. we dont know because we dont have any trust with them and no ability to verify anything about them. i am really editoralizing. | * william - whats been shown tonight that CCL has chosen based off political issues, and SR is concerned about safety and intention issues. we dont know because we dont have any trust with them and no ability to verify anything about them. i am really editoralizing. | ||
* patrik - i wouldnt say ccl doing it for political reasons either. ccl members have problem with pro-iran stance, but selling building for $850k | * patrik - i wouldnt say ccl doing it for political reasons either. ccl members have problem with pro-iran stance, but also selling building for $850k | ||
* paige - my understanding | * paige - my understanding of SR plan, but i left for a little bit , was to ask for mediation before proceeding further on ownership proposal. mediation on two conflicts, one with ian threat of violence and one with non consensual photograph | ||
* benny - i think that was disproportionate with what i understand. including phrases like "are we doing this" "do you want to go". i use that to say lets de-escalate this to another context. | |||
* benny - i think that was disproportionate with what i understand. | * jemma - i took this not in a way lets talk this out, but as a way to silence | ||
* jemma - not in a way lets talk this out, but as a way to silence | * benny - i was there and ian was standing up and pointing a finger at someone who just talked about being a black member at omni commons. we have to look seriously at how we are racializing violence and speech | ||
* benny - i was there and ian was standing up and pointing a finger at someone who just talked about being a black member at omni | * jemma - i dont remember finger pointing but, i wasnt sitting where you were. i also remember people getting their picture taken, and no response to | ||
* jemma - i dont remember finger pointing but, i | * silver - i feel frustrated about double standard just recently Ian came and yelled at black woman who was alone in the media lab. using threatening intimidation. i dont appreciate this level of double standard. ians behavior towards tai who also is member of PP, which is coincidence, of course he didnt know that anyways | ||
* silver - i feel frustrated about double standard just recently Ian came and yelled at black woman who was alone in the media lab. using threatening intimidation. i dont appreciate this level of double standard. ians | |||
* benny - i also dont know if PP are familiar with email about someone getting attacked at omni. about matao who has been banned prior. basically she has done a bunch of negative posts about omni. somehow she got into the building. i personally witnessed ian screaming in a way, threatening privately in basement in omni, in a way that i dont want to draw this into a long accountability sections. but why should a white dude be able to walk around? | * benny - i also dont know if PP are familiar with email about someone getting attacked at omni. about matao who has been banned prior. basically she has done a bunch of negative posts about omni. somehow she got into the building. i personally witnessed ian screaming in a way, threatening privately in basement in omni, in a way that i dont want to draw this into a long accountability sections. but why should a white dude be able to walk around? | ||
* silver - just recently but not too long after being called out as a zionist, i was threatened by jake if i do not delete a post on instagram that he will tell everyone i was a zionist | * silver - just recently but not too long after being called out as a zionist, i was threatened by jake if i do not delete a post on instagram that he will tell everyone i was a zionist | ||
* jake - that was after you put up a post about me. | * jake - that was after you put up a post about me. | ||
* silver - it wasnt about you, it was a post about omni | * silver - it wasnt about you, it was a post about omni | ||
* pallavi - it doesnt matter what happened before that, | * pallavi - it doesnt matter what happened before that, jake did you ask her to take it down? | ||
* jake - yes i asked politely. then i can post whatever. | * jake - yes i asked politely. then they responded i can post whatever i want. | ||
* pallavi - i wanted to know if anyone had been named specifically. this should be separate conflict resolution if we want to be in community with one another. as a third party professional coming into it, as person of color is looking at how | * pallavi - i wanted to know if anyone had been named specifically. this should be separate conflict resolution if we want to be in community with one another. as a third party professional coming into it, as person of color is looking at how ppl have been talked about, makes me very uncomfortable, hostility happening in this envirnomnent shows me that you dont know how to sit down and handle conversation. i have seen PP conflict resolution skills have shown up in person. behoove you to look at notes and see if pp actually said. same thing that we dont let people report on 3rd party, have to go to actual source. dont have screaming matches. i understand ppl emotional because names are raked through the mud. but rn only viable solution is pp, llc not enough time. i have been out for a few days but from what i could see in emails, enough progress has not been made to make that a viable solution. got to put the petty bullshit aside. got to do whats better for the greater solution. ive been working for a black led org for last 2 years, have seen displacement. it feels like, i am witnessing severe amount of empathy for person of color experience. what ive witnessed, pp said they experienced a modern day lynch mob. i think some of you should be ashamed for not having a semblance of understanding of the plight of poc. this is maybe why integration doesnt work. unless you have a real deep understanding of poc, you dont understand where that sentiment comes from. we have had boots on our necks for generations and you are blocking people from seeking collective liberation. that is literally most important thing happening right now. i can believe any rationale for otherwise | ||
* jems - if we were blocking it i would agree, but we dont want to see a vote tomorrow. want less vagueness. few things we want to discuss before counterproposal. dont want a hard block. do have some trust issues. some things that made people feel uncomfortable. some ppl talked about bringing in lawyers. this is a really big legal discussion, should really look at what this looks like. they want to keep their own collectives going. i think there are ways to come forward, but both CCL and SR not wanting to vote tomorrow | * jems - if we were blocking it i would agree, but we dont want to see a vote tomorrow. want less vagueness. few things we want to discuss before counterproposal. dont want a hard block. do have some trust issues. some things that made people feel uncomfortable. some ppl talked about bringing in lawyers. this is a really big legal discussion, should really look at what this looks like. they want to keep their own collectives going. i think there are ways to come forward, but both CCL and SR not wanting to vote tomorrow | ||
* pallavi - if we do not vote tomorrow, how clear is that deadline. cant wait until foreclosure. costly to wait and go into foreclosure, that has been the consensus | * pallavi - if we do not vote tomorrow, how clear is that deadline. cant wait until foreclosure. costly to wait and go into foreclosure, that has been the consensus | ||
* patrik - i think we have 90 day before foreclosure to do | * patrik - i think we have 90 day before foreclosure to do something | ||
* pallavi - you were only one who said that, other people were concerned. i dont know specific details, but | * pallavi - you were only one who said that, other people were concerned. i dont know specific details, but | ||
* patrik - if we have things in the works, we can ask mulberry to delay. if we are talking about LLC or land trust, i dont think | * patrik - if we have things in the works, we can ask mulberry to delay. if we are talking about LLC or land trust, i dont think | ||
* pallavi - how realistic do you think those are | * pallavi - how realistic do you think those are? | ||
* patrik - i think very realistic, david k a founding member and member of saferDIY said community land trusts are a very viable option | * patrik - i think very realistic, david k a founding member and member of saferDIY said community land trusts are a very viable option | ||
* pallavi - if PP gets block, and trust doesnt work out, do you know how angry | * pallavi - if PP gets block, and trust doesnt work out, do you know how angry people are going to be | ||
* benny - omni failing to sustain black membership, realstic proposal offered generously to save omni, - what omni is saying is we rather work with black people | * benny - omni failing to sustain black membership, realstic proposal offered generously to save omni, - what omni is saying is we rather give up the building than work with black people | ||
* jake - you should be specific because black ppl kicked out by CLP | * jake - you should be specific because black ppl kicked out by CLP | ||
* benny - articulations against black new african politics have been unsubstianted with t. you dont know their politics. black led org has done better than what you will ever do in your life. | * benny - articulations against black new african politics have been unsubstianted with t. you dont know their politics. this black led org has done better for the world than what you will ever do in your life. | ||
* pallavi - i wanted to add context to infrastructure. my cousin is an | * pallavi - i wanted to add context to infrastructure. my cousin is an entertainment advising, has been doing legal advising for them. nonprofit experience. i know they have been giving good nonprofit backing. i know these people but they are family. i know a lot of you dont know me because im new but im the kind of person this community needs. im trying to get you all funded, but ive been doing this work, been trying to support. only 8% of foundation support goes to poc. such inequity. if you dont have a heart to actually do right by people of color. why are you are here if you dont want to coexist with people of color. | ||
* silver - facilitator spke to me after talking to patrik, paige , and jake. they told me its | * silver - facilitator spke to me after talking to patrik, paige , and jake. they told me its not smart to give 100% ownership to anyone when we had invested in the building. i totally agree with that. i dont see the capability of omni to run anything. but comment before, thats were i came from initially, i was like give it to whoever. that wasnt productive. but you all couldnt come up with a counterproposal. you all just edited grammar. | ||
* patrik - i did | * patrik - i did | ||
* silver - | * silver - yea true Patrik you did. but people here dont want to run a building. like i just want focus on media lab.. i dont want to run this other stuff, we are doing it poorly. facilitator said no, and yar, said 50/50 or 60/40, create that proposal. i dont know what that proposal is. but that might be an offer on the table from PP. i think there has been a strong no because it was vague. but we have to do work in the negotiations too. i want us to enter space and have that dialogue with them. i dont know what tomorrow is but i want to hear from everyone. last thing they felt intense anti-blackness and racial harm with conversation they had with jake. they were uncomfortable with you speaking on behalf of black people to a black person | ||
* jake - the ppl i was speaking on behalf of were pushed out by clp | * jake - the ppl i was speaking on behalf of were pushed out by clp | ||
* benny - you can just say shit. black politic | * benny - you can just say shit. black politic... | ||
* jake - if you dont agree | * jake - if you dont agree with them, they want you want out | ||
* benny | * benny | ||
* j - pan africanism, they were explicit | * j - pan africanism, they were explicit | ||
* b - yes | * b - yes | ||
* j - what | * j - what do they do with ppl who disagree with pan-africanism? | ||
* p - it doesnt matter if you disagree. they have conflict resolution. trained in being able to sit down | * p - it doesnt matter if you disagree. they have conflict resolution. trained in being able to sit down | ||
* j - thats not what weve seen | * j - thats not what weve seen | ||
* b - thats what | * b - thats what theyve told us | ||
* j - clp said they werent stalinists | * j - clp said they werent stalinists | ||
* jemma- i hear you all | * jemma- i hear you all. but youre saying if we disagree with proposal that means we are racist. name calling issue. this building includes finances put into it. i would love opportunity to discuss conflict with pp. i dont think we can go into the weeds right now about politics. but i do want to give PP that opportunity. dont feel trust right now with how the offer is being made. | ||
* benny - i want to make distinction. racist | * benny - i want to make distinction. between the deciscion being racist, and the way it is being discussed is racist. i think im sitting in latter category. the way we are interacting with it is racist. not agreeing to giving them building not on its own is racist. giving someone money example. thanks for mentioning that articulation and letting me respond to it | ||
* jemma - some things we are really worried about is sharing of boycott, and their relationship to CLP. | * jemma - some things we are really worried about is sharing of boycott, and their relationship to CLP. | ||
* pallavi - they have talked about this multiple times | * pallavi - they have talked about this multiple times | ||
* jemma - yes i was there. they said they | * jemma - yes i was there. they said they are wiling go be an arbiter. | ||
* pallavi - discussed history of how they were introduced. you were not satisfied? | * pallavi - discussed history of how they were introduced. you were not satisfied? | ||
* jemma - they shared things | * jemma - they shared things said in boycott | ||
* pallavi - they are currently doing this? | * pallavi - they are currently doing this? | ||
* jemma - yes we asked them to take that down and they were unclear of how to move forward. this is something we could discuss. | * jemma - yes we asked them to take that down and they were unclear of how to move forward. this is something we could discuss. | ||
* silver - this is a double standard again. see | * silver - this is a double standard again. see with jake conflict rn, how jake threatened to say i was a zionist | ||
* eric - conflict you have with jake is really hot, not the thing to prove the rule. something fresh and hard to watch says we are hopeless to talk to other people and make connection. | * eric - conflict you have with jake is really hot, not the thing to prove the rule. something fresh and hard to watch says we are hopeless to talk to other people and make connection. | ||
* carl - hi im carl, SR member. but not very involved in politics here for a bit. my view on pure financial basis, but i think PP bid is way low. if they want bid on whole building. that alone sounds like bad deal to us. i think we should wait til we get a better deal | * carl - hi im carl, SR member. but not very involved in politics here for a bit. my view on pure financial basis, but i think PP bid is way low. if they want bid on whole building. that alone sounds like bad deal to us. i think we should wait til we get a better deal | ||
* paige - it wasnt just | * paige - it wasnt just a proposal to own building outright, it also included omni collectives staying at current rent, and somehow involved in governance. we can and should clarify this and do counterproposal but i wanted to clarify, its not just selling building to them | ||
* carl - you can make any agreement, but they can kick us out. please dont give our power away | * carl - yea but you can make any agreement, but in the end they can kick us out. please dont give our power away | ||
* silver - why dont we work on proposal then | * silver - why dont we work on proposal then | ||
* pallavi - yea why dont you ask for what you want | * pallavi - yea why dont you ask for what you want | ||
* jemma- good q and we are working on that, but means we cant make a deciscion tomorrow. and we want some trust building things first. but we need to have some basic kind of trust building between groups | * jemma- good q and we are working on that, but means we cant make a deciscion tomorrow. and we want some trust building things first. but we need to have some basic kind of trust building between groups | ||
* patrik - there are ways to make this more legally binding. i was put off by their reluctance to put more legal, and didnt put detail into it | * patrik - there are ways to make this more legally binding. i was put off by their reluctance to put more legal, and didnt put detail into it | ||
* silver - we should collaborate instead of thinking the | * silver - we should collaborate instead of thinking the worst | ||
* patrik - they are a newer org than we are, event space they have right now is managed by event management team. not quite certain what expertise they are bringing in | * patrik - they are a newer org than we are, event space they have right now is managed by event management team. not quite certain what expertise they are bringing in | ||
* silver - | * silver - cant be any less than ours | ||
* patrik - willingness to run the space is something,yes | * patrik - willingness to run the space is something,yes | ||
* benny - on the note of trust building, thing i am thinking. identity positionality. maybe we do the first thing to trust build. i dont see much of us reaching out to them. we are holding all the cards. do we offer them a collective spot straight up? starting tomorrow. thats how we know we are invested in this community trust building project. how can we do the first step. | * benny - on the note of trust building, thing i am thinking. identity positionality. maybe we do the first thing to trust build. i dont see much of us reaching out to them. we are holding all the cards. do we offer them a collective spot straight up? starting tomorrow. thats how we know we are invested in this community trust building project. how can we do the first step. | ||
| Line 298: | Line 296: | ||
* jemma - but they are already sharing boycott, thats really hurting us. thats why we have solid steps to put forward. basically they are giving us a proposal for 1/3 or less to have full ownership. i dont see where us coming in and giving more is helpful given them promoting a boycott. pp isnt banned from space, they are showing up at omni right at sewing lab. like i said there are some actions, as a group, that currently we need to have some progress on before considering working on together | * jemma - but they are already sharing boycott, thats really hurting us. thats why we have solid steps to put forward. basically they are giving us a proposal for 1/3 or less to have full ownership. i dont see where us coming in and giving more is helpful given them promoting a boycott. pp isnt banned from space, they are showing up at omni right at sewing lab. like i said there are some actions, as a group, that currently we need to have some progress on before considering working on together | ||
* alex - if they had a vote on delegate, then they would be able to determine terms of their proposal. conflict of interest? | * alex - if they had a vote on delegate, then they would be able to determine terms of their proposal. conflict of interest? | ||
* benny - trying to work live, sorry, how about an offering, they get a delegate to omni. they stop their participation in the boycott. and also stipulate they will recuse themselves from any financial deciscions in the real estate deal. because of the concerned voice | * benny - trying to work this out live, sorry, how about an offering, they get a delegate to omni. they stop their participation in the boycott. and also stipulate they will recuse themselves from any financial deciscions in the real estate deal. because of the concerned voice | ||
* alex - what does end? do they issue a repediation of their support? | * alex - what does end support of the boycott mean? do they issue a repediation of their support? | ||
* benny - they take down their post, and say they are no longer supporting boycott, and they become a member of omni commons | * benny - they take down their post, and say they are no longer supporting boycott, and they become a member of omni commons | ||
* paige - token problem... but i guess we are trying to build trust | * paige - token problem... but i guess we are trying to build trust | ||
* benny - prisoners | * benny - prisoners dilemma. | ||
* jemma - i dont | * jemma - i dont think this is the best analogy | ||
* ebnny - maybe more predominately white group needs to put the burden of risk | * ebnny - maybe more predominately white group needs to put the burden of risk | ||
* jemma- that doesnt work with vibe with message to collectives that they can stay here and everything can stay the same. people want to know what that looks like. we have really solid steps, not just taking down a tweet. i guess we'll see tomorrow what that looks like. i have to head out | * jemma- that doesnt work with vibe with message to collectives that they can stay here and everything can stay the same. people want to know what that looks like. we have really solid steps, not just taking down a tweet. i guess we'll see tomorrow what that looks like. i have to head out | ||
* william - i really love PP and CLP's stated politics, and would love to follow black leadership to do more community focused direct outreach, but with that, with what ive heard, it seems natural to be weary given everything that has happened with clp. i think best thing to do is more learning and more investigation. | * william - i really love PP and CLP's stated politics, and would love to follow black leadership to do more community focused direct outreach, but with that, with what ive heard, it seems natural to be weary given everything that has happened with clp. i think best thing to do is more learning and more investigation. | ||
* paige - concern about | * paige - concern about double standard yes but remains that no accountability taken for picture. also need clarity on inconsistent narration of events | ||
* benny - they | * benny - they responded that they felt attacked, they felt unsafe, so they were going to document this person. legitimacy of that is up in the air . my undestanding was their response was they felt attacked. i am reading about the disappearance of black organizers. history of being an op, and then disappearing. they have agree do mediation | ||
* silver - ill ask | * silver - ill ask for clarification | ||
* jemma - | * jemma - | ||
* silver - that night when we put abbas on trial, when i opened door, he ducked, he | * silver - that night when we put abbas on trial, when i opened door, he ducked, consistent with what he said in meeting about being afraid | ||
* pallavi - you have | * pallavi - you have to have empathy, people are coming from a traumatic background. a lot of us have been through a lot of trauma. when you are going through a traumatic experience, a lot of things are bypassed. hes clearly done a lot of work to try and respond to that. proof to show he is not beyond learning. PP hasnt done anything to show against the idea that they are perfectly reasonable people, and really get to the bottom of things. just been so rushed, only been able to speak via the delegates. we should just get down to the brass tacks, if you want to be very specfic, be specific. yall are smart people, you could do a 30min consult with a lawyer. they might know specifics in buying a building, but a lot of us dont know. this is all new to all of us. have to give each other grace. need to focus on those line items of what to ask. what else do you need to see, what are you waiting for. | ||
Current Building Proposals Document: | Current Building Proposals Document: | ||
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wDzotx3D07brWXLkylRlSb9r_alI8fqaBFUDxkiVkg0/edit#heading=h.iytbrd1zw5lt | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wDzotx3D07brWXLkylRlSb9r_alI8fqaBFUDxkiVkg0/edit#heading=h.iytbrd1zw5lt | ||