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Difference between revisions of "Meeting Notes 2024-01-10"
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= Agenda = | = Agenda = | ||
== straw poll to decide on | == straw poll to decide on facilitator == | ||
Jemma volunteered to be facilitator | Note taking was not started until after this had been discussed for a while (and in email right before meeting). | ||
Vote to have Jemma act as facilitator | |||
Jemma volunteered to be facilitator before meeting. Was contentious. Decided to take a vote | |||
=== Vote to have Jemma act as facilitator === | |||
* opposed - jake, eric, arthur | * opposed - jake, eric, arthur | ||
* abstain - sierk, alex philip chin | * abstain - sierk, alex philip chin | ||
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We agree to Paige as facilitator. But Paige is taking notes so needs help | We agree to Paige as facilitator. But Paige is taking notes so needs help | ||
Angela offers support with notetaking and process | |||
Also Ally offered as facilitator, and he ended up doing most of it | Also Ally offered as facilitator, and he ended up doing most of it | ||
== | == who should be delegate, trust, conflict, etc. == | ||
* | * sequoia - want us to be mindful about level of emotion. see each other in good faith. work from a space of good faith. | ||
*jemma - issue that i'm being removed as facilitator. contributes to harm done in our space. | *jemma - issue that i'm being removed as facilitator. contributes to harm done in our space. | ||
* peter - would like to have an update of where we stand on foreclosure | * peter - would like to have an update of where we stand on foreclosure | ||
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* jemma - we are based on removing people based off who was harmed. small cliques in our group continuing to cause harm. if they are going to silence people, if we dont address, our collective wont be going on | * jemma - we are based on removing people based off who was harmed. small cliques in our group continuing to cause harm. if they are going to silence people, if we dont address, our collective wont be going on | ||
* eric - we shouldn't silence anyone, yea.... | * eric - we shouldn't silence anyone, yea.... | ||
* yar - from what i heard, they are objecting because jemma named called out racism, transphobia and | * yar - from what i heard, they are objecting because jemma named called out racism, transphobia and misogyny | ||
* jake - no, there are several reasons | * jake - no, there are several reasons | ||
* someone calls out jake for interrupting | * someone calls out jake for interrupting | ||
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* jake - if they arent, then they can enumerate. if its based off of racism then they should join | * jake - if they arent, then they can enumerate. if its based off of racism then they should join | ||
* jemma - i should facilitate, majority in favor | * jemma - i should facilitate, majority in favor | ||
* angela - i want us to get along, maybe if paige was | * angela - i want us to get along, maybe if paige was facilitator people would think it is fair. should we hear jemma out or do a vote? | ||
* | * sequoia - i voted in favor but i dont want... i just want a facilitator that does not cause... jems i do see u got a majority vote. one problem i have with our org is we do not have a process. i would support a straw poll to | ||
* carl - question from jamal | * carl - question from jamal | ||
* jamal - little bit of disagreement on who is facilitator. either i can go to that other meeting now and come back or speak now. i am jamal taylor. board at the last meeting told me to come on given the financial nature the org is in. at current we owe $880k to our lender. we might get a default letter any day that will evict us. when i talked to counsel today, he said patience has run out with the lender. to the extent that it matters to me, priority needs to be saving the building, without finding someone else to do that. i think there are avenues by raising money. and that would come through a set of organizations. there is one that can make a 10 year loan, but we are against a barrel of a gun. things have been communicated to me, we have 4k in the bank. major problem for a building this size. what matters to me is that this building can function. need heads down focused on saving this building. to the extent i have heard, about my qualifications or ability. i will say to you as ed requirement must always be as little distraction as possible. self centering these past 4 weeks, sends signal of where our priorities are. someone came to me with a complaint as ED given a decision made by the board, i took an action to ameliorate by engaging in a thoughtful review. i would invite everyone to be very careful of language used talking to people outside this org, as well as those inside of it. no money if we are sued. many skew toward libel and slander. very mindful how we engage with each other. my priority is that we can afford this building. | * jamal - little bit of disagreement on who is facilitator. either i can go to that other meeting now and come back or speak now. i am jamal taylor. board at the last meeting told me to come on given the financial nature the org is in. at current we owe $880k to our lender. we might get a default letter any day that will evict us. when i talked to counsel today, he said patience has run out with the lender. to the extent that it matters to me, priority needs to be saving the building, without finding someone else to do that. i think there are avenues by raising money. and that would come through a set of organizations. there is one that can make a 10 year loan, but we are against a barrel of a gun. things have been communicated to me, we have 4k in the bank. major problem for a building this size. what matters to me is that this building can function. need heads down focused on saving this building. to the extent i have heard, about my qualifications or ability. i will say to you as ed requirement must always be as little distraction as possible. self centering these past 4 weeks, sends signal of where our priorities are. someone came to me with a complaint as ED given a decision made by the board, i took an action to ameliorate by engaging in a thoughtful review. i would invite everyone to be very careful of language used talking to people outside this org, as well as those inside of it. no money if we are sued. many skew toward libel and slander. very mindful how we engage with each other. my priority is that we can afford this building. | ||
* jems - question, you said you had a way for an org to bring in money? is that one of current proposals? what is that direction? | * jems - question, you said you had a way for an org to bring in money? is that one of current proposals? what is that direction? | ||
* jamal - cannot share all details. i want to clear up something brought up before, im not going to blindly accept any idea. when i asked for procurement of money from other proposals, nobody was able to show something. the org i am talking to now has money, they have given 2-3 million dollar loans. i do have connections with congressman who knows someone on that board. my hope is 10yr loan. problem is we had 10 yrs to pay back this loan and were not able to. i will say, when i go to the board, i think we ask for 1.75 mil, to secure loan and repair things that need to be repaired. ballroom needs some work, plumbing electrical code things. no staff members. we have 4k in bank and cant pay people. what i was told in the board, i would raise my own money to pay salary. counsel and i talked and we would set that salary to cap at a global norm. another thing important to name, people are saying I know PP. i do not. i do not operate with fear or favor. several people in this room can vouch i have been critical of things in their proposal. i would ask people to really consider what is important right now. not about "i dont like that person" | * jamal - cannot share all details. i want to clear up something brought up before, im not going to blindly accept any idea. when i asked for procurement of money from other proposals, nobody was able to show something. the org i am talking to now has money, they have given 2-3 million dollar loans. i do have connections with congressman who knows someone on that board. my hope is 10yr loan. problem is we had 10 yrs to pay back this loan and were not able to. i will say, when i go to the board, i think we ask for 1.75 mil, to secure loan and repair things that need to be repaired. ballroom needs some work, plumbing electrical code things. no staff members. we have 4k in bank and cant pay people. what i was told in the board, i would raise my own money to pay salary. counsel and i talked and we would set that salary to cap at a global norm. another thing important to name, people are saying I know PP. i do not. i do not operate with fear or favor. several people in this room can vouch i have been critical of things in their proposal. i would ask people to really consider what is important right now. not about "i dont like that person" | ||
* jamal - i can not share who the lender is. i have shared it with one board member. im not going to share because of some of the | * jamal - i can not share who the lender is. i have shared it with one board member. im not going to share because of some of the behavior i have seen in ppl misconstruing what the board did. lack of communication about the true place we are | ||
* sequoia - glad you are here jamal, i really appreciate how focused you are on solving the big problem right in front of us. you are really articulate and skilled. im friends with jake and was concerned about how the ban | * sequoia - glad you are here jamal, i really appreciate how focused you are on solving the big problem right in front of us. you are really articulate and skilled. im friends with jake and was concerned about how the ban occurred. my understanding if you think someone is a problem in SR, do we have a process or if something made on fly, it feels improper. wondering if you could comment? my biggest wish, it seems now like there are two sides on the ban. where jake doesnt want to be banned, and also doesnt trust you. wonder if we could give each other a second chance. | ||
* jamal - thanks for that question. to the extent that i will talk about an investigation or set of complaints - i wont. i dont think appropriate space to do that. nor do i think, i dont think way people shared it ?? part of the problem, there are no systems whatsoever. everything seems devoid in this building. therefore my focus on what is going forward. my understanding 30-60 days. to the extent that i have to excuse people of their complaints, i will not. i think it would be inappropriate to mention those complaints in this space. to the extent that people are welcome to speak to me, they would know i am welcome to any conversation. there have been several invitations. im not opposed to conversation, but i think quite frankly, i dont know anyone well enough to prejudge them. i have seen in complaints so far, i have gotten a series of complaints from a lot of people. serious effort being spent on trying to save the building. where a complaint was raised to me, i took an action that i thought was appropriate. im prepared to answer that question but not in a firing squad, and where someone doesnt try to reach out to me. things come up in terms of complaints, we hear complaints of any sort of discrimination, that can put us into a precarious position. any individual is welcome to call me as long as they are respectful and appropriate to me, as i will to them. | * jamal - thanks for that question. to the extent that i will talk about an investigation or set of complaints - i wont. i dont think appropriate space to do that. nor do i think, i dont think way people shared it ?? part of the problem, there are no systems whatsoever. everything seems devoid in this building. therefore my focus on what is going forward. my understanding 30-60 days. to the extent that i have to excuse people of their complaints, i will not. i think it would be inappropriate to mention those complaints in this space. to the extent that people are welcome to speak to me, they would know i am welcome to any conversation. there have been several invitations. im not opposed to conversation, but i think quite frankly, i dont know anyone well enough to prejudge them. i have seen in complaints so far, i have gotten a series of complaints from a lot of people. serious effort being spent on trying to save the building. where a complaint was raised to me, i took an action that i thought was appropriate. im prepared to answer that question but not in a firing squad, and where someone doesnt try to reach out to me. things come up in terms of complaints, we hear complaints of any sort of discrimination, that can put us into a precarious position. any individual is welcome to call me as long as they are respectful and appropriate to me, as i will to them. | ||
*jemma: in terms of giving ppl second chances, i have a problem because i am being attacked for the fact of pointing out that other people have had issues. i am removed after majority vote to be facilitator. more harm done by same individuals that caused harm. we need | *jemma: in terms of giving ppl second chances, i have a problem because i am being attacked for the fact of pointing out that other people have had issues. i am removed after majority vote to be facilitator. more harm done by same individuals that caused harm. we need restorative justice, temporary ban is not permanent. not a "purge" or a "removal" or "silencing", it is a harm reduction strategy. still being targeted towards trans people, and people of color. tiring and exhausting. if sudo room wants to move forward, as antimisogynistic, antiracist. i do not believe there should be second chances. i am now being targeted with nothing factual. | ||
* yar - i want to clarify what my understanding is. on saturday board of delegates voted to ban jake temporarily for 3 months. after that there was an uproar because it escalated to the mailing list. jamal someone we thought to hire, he saw that as a distraction, so he wanted to dissolve that, again pending some sort of investigation he would take on. he was going to supply the things you were asking for. you wanted it to be on facts, on reality. thats where jamal is coming from. and as it stands now you are not banned, and that was jamal's decision | * yar - i want to clarify what my understanding is. on saturday board of delegates voted to ban jake temporarily for 3 months. after that there was an uproar because it escalated to the mailing list. jamal someone we thought to hire, he saw that as a distraction, so he wanted to dissolve that, again pending some sort of investigation he would take on. he was going to supply the things you were asking for. you wanted it to be on facts, on reality. thats where jamal is coming from. and as it stands now you are not banned, and that was jamal's decision | ||
* eric - i want to dovetail. it was me who first raised issues on the meeting. i also have communication from our lawyer, where he indicated specifics of which jamal said he wants to ban two specific people. does a lot to erode my thinking that this would impartial. this would be another show trial. i am resistant to authority, and abandoning omni as horizontal space | * eric - i want to dovetail. it was me who first raised issues on the meeting. i also have communication from our lawyer, where he indicated specifics of which jamal said he wants to ban two specific people. does a lot to erode my thinking that this would impartial. this would be another show trial. i am resistant to authority, and abandoning omni as horizontal space | ||
* yar - never has been | * yar - never has been | ||
* eric - electing a ruler we will live under, under this supervision, this fear of... am i unmutual and i will be banned as well too. these accusations fly around, today i was told i was transphobic and misogynistic. this is not my heart, i see no evidence of this stuff in the space. these words just get thrown around. have trouble with going | * eric - electing a ruler we will live under, under this supervision, this fear of... am i unmutual and i will be banned as well too. these accusations fly around, today i was told i was transphobic and misogynistic. this is not my heart, i see no evidence of this stuff in the space. these words just get thrown around. have trouble with going forward with this ED | ||
* jamal - what counsel told you that i said, is hearsay. and 2nd, some members of the board were in our convo on that day, and there was conversation on what my authority would be. as a person who has worked for some of largest school districts in country, i cant understand that in the face of, we regularly find ourselves becoming the victim when people call us out on behaviors that are de facto, cant stop long enough to look in mirror and and hear what people are saying. 1. a board had a responsibility to privacy, people who have served on as trustees, should know that and 2. agreeing to group norms then violating those norms is not acceptable and 3. dishonest statements outside of meetings are not acceptable. those discussions were made outside of the board. if there is suggestion that someone has spoke to me. im going to say as black gay man, im going to take up space i need. i wont let people paint me as an angry black man to be a victim. i ask you to do what you like to do in sudo room, and let the people doing the work do their work. one thing if people dont like me, but to the extent to think im on a witch hunt? not a priority of mine. grasping at trying to be a victim from me is exhausting. happy to help with getting a grant, but to the effect that have i gotten more than 10 complaints about a person? absolutely. and messages about something sent out untrue? absolutely. happy to ask an attorney to do it if you think you dont trust me. there are emails, text messages, voice memo, happy to turn those over. that might be the better option. do i have time to be going back and forth? my goal right now is 900k. | * jamal - what counsel told you that i said, is hearsay. and 2nd, some members of the board were in our convo on that day, and there was conversation on what my authority would be. as a person who has worked for some of largest school districts in country, i cant understand that in the face of, we regularly find ourselves becoming the victim when people call us out on behaviors that are de facto, cant stop long enough to look in mirror and and hear what people are saying. 1. a board had a responsibility to privacy, people who have served on as trustees, should know that and 2. agreeing to group norms then violating those norms is not acceptable and 3. dishonest statements outside of meetings are not acceptable. those discussions were made outside of the board. if there is suggestion that someone has spoke to me. im going to say as black gay man, im going to take up space i need. i wont let people paint me as an angry black man to be a victim. i ask you to do what you like to do in sudo room, and let the people doing the work do their work. one thing if people dont like me, but to the extent to think im on a witch hunt? not a priority of mine. grasping at trying to be a victim from me is exhausting. happy to help with getting a grant, but to the effect that have i gotten more than 10 complaints about a person? absolutely. and messages about something sent out untrue? absolutely. happy to ask an attorney to do it if you think you dont trust me. there are emails, text messages, voice memo, happy to turn those over. that might be the better option. do i have time to be going back and forth? my goal right now is 900k. | ||
* jems - responding to eric here, my attacks not based on feeling. not attacks, just callouts. you asked muslim POC to be | * jems - responding to eric here, my attacks not based on feeling. not attacks, just callouts. you asked muslim POC to be removed from our meeting and didnt say it out loud. when you target only POC who is muslim in room thats a problem. caused 40 minutes delay. if they continue to support racism it's a problem | ||
* paige - we don't have time for this discussion. this is a temporary break, was best decision to allow us to move forward. i would be much more willing to discuss, what do we do when there's a conflict pushing people out. right now as is, with no structure or process and based off emails, the accused is the one who gets to be more comfortable staying, while accusers are the ones who are pushed away from space. in other spaces, much more normalized behavior of if someone asks you to take a break, u just do. not take it personally like a purge. again, if the emails or questioning was on something like "3 months is too much", or brought up something about the conflict resolution policy, i would not be saying this. but the response went straight to personal attacks, denying any harm done, and conspiracy theories. no specifics were given out but this conspiracy theory was made so quickly that jamal forced us into this vote and its a power grab. so, we can talk about policies but going forward, i think we should be following with conflict resolution, and conflict steward will report to the board. | * paige - we don't have time for this discussion. this is a temporary break, was best decision to allow us to move forward. i would be much more willing to discuss, what do we do when there's a conflict pushing people out. right now as is, with no structure or process and based off emails, the accused is the one who gets to be more comfortable staying, while accusers are the ones who are pushed away from space. in other spaces, much more normalized behavior of if someone asks you to take a break, u just do. not take it personally like a purge. again, if the emails or questioning was on something like "3 months is too much", or brought up something about the conflict resolution policy, i would not be saying this. but the response went straight to personal attacks, denying any harm done, and conspiracy theories. no specifics were given out but this conspiracy theory was made so quickly that jamal forced us into this vote and its a power grab. so, we can talk about policies but going forward, i think we should be following with conflict resolution, and conflict steward will report to the board. | ||
* arthur - if he were in this job, what would be the philosophy or response if foreclosure to happen? | * arthur - if he were in this job, what would be the philosophy or response if foreclosure to happen? | ||
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* jamal - no im not hired by SR, Im hired by OC. point i was trying to make earlier, i dont care what happens in SR. technical language: sudo room is a tenant of the building, not my business what it does. if there are complaints that spill outside, where there are complaints are coming from outside sr, and how does sr handle those complaints. thats where we do have some overlap. | * jamal - no im not hired by SR, Im hired by OC. point i was trying to make earlier, i dont care what happens in SR. technical language: sudo room is a tenant of the building, not my business what it does. if there are complaints that spill outside, where there are complaints are coming from outside sr, and how does sr handle those complaints. thats where we do have some overlap. | ||
* paige - clarification, sudo room isn't a tenant, its a fiscally sponsored project of OC | * paige - clarification, sudo room isn't a tenant, its a fiscally sponsored project of OC | ||
* | * sequoia - point agreed with paige about emails. what ive seen in email list has been wild accusations about people being targeted, a lot of stuff that i want us.. as jamal has emphasized. important thing isnt feelings of individual members. we need to raise over $1 million. feel like we have really big problems is that the last hour and 20mins of meeting has been a lot of hurt and finger pointing. i really want to see people, we need to find ways of being more calm about what is happening. last thing, i want to support what jems said, if someone accused. if someone says 'you're an asshole'. good response is to say 'how am i being an asshole?' this applies to transphobia and racism. if someone says you're racist say 'oh what did i do?' ability to do that without having your guard up and being personally injured by the claim is so important. otherwise we will be arguing till the building burns down. | ||
* ally - two new folks in | * ally - two new folks in | ||
* kent and thomas introduce themselves | * kent and thomas introduce themselves | ||
* jamal - im going to be very brief. amount of capacity you are spending, i appreciate the emotional lift going on. i have some rhetorical questions for you. if youve seen any email ive written, you know ive invited conversation. i have made that space available. i have not gotten any responses from 4-5 of the ppl I specifically reached out to. question is why not? 2nd question, why do i feel that in this space, it feels like weaponization of your time to be engaging in this conversation when there hasn't been a person to person conversation first. i would tell you it concerns me that this place has been weaponized in this way. it would seem to me, if you had something you want to talk to me about, you have not. im confused as to why, as a human people, why space is being taken up in this way. i would ask you to ask yourself, why in the moment, why werent those raised. fundamentally confused because a process was offered. to be made whole was offered. what benefit does this have to you when this building owes the money it does | * jamal - im going to be very brief. amount of capacity you are spending, i appreciate the emotional lift going on. i have some rhetorical questions for you. if youve seen any email ive written, you know ive invited conversation. i have made that space available. i have not gotten any responses from 4-5 of the ppl I specifically reached out to. question is why not? 2nd question, why do i feel that in this space, it feels like weaponization of your time to be engaging in this conversation when there hasn't been a person to person conversation first. i would tell you it concerns me that this place has been weaponized in this way. it would seem to me, if you had something you want to talk to me about, you have not. im confused as to why, as a human people, why space is being taken up in this way. i would ask you to ask yourself, why in the moment, why werent those raised. fundamentally confused because a process was offered. to be made whole was offered. what benefit does this have to you when this building owes the money it does | ||
* muiren [in chat] - funding social | * muiren [in chat] - funding social administration is as important as brick and mortar infrastructure | ||
* jemma - because of this harm, im now getting messages about mediation. if i had been facilitator we could have been going forward faster. but no factual reason for removing me. and now talking about mediation? mediation is we need to remove people who have done harm. i have done nothing that has harmed anyone. delegate in the past. need to remove people who have done harm. but i dont want this to be a back room deal. bothered i was attacked today because i had been harmed. to be targetted that way tonight is deeply disturbing and expanding upon harms. you should not behave this way and should be not tolerated by other collective members. calling for accountability as our own collective. | * jemma - because of this harm, im now getting messages about mediation. if i had been facilitator we could have been going forward faster. but no factual reason for removing me. and now talking about mediation? mediation is we need to remove people who have done harm. i have done nothing that has harmed anyone. delegate in the past. need to remove people who have done harm. but i dont want this to be a back room deal. bothered i was attacked today because i had been harmed. to be targetted that way tonight is deeply disturbing and expanding upon harms. you should not behave this way and should be not tolerated by other collective members. calling for accountability as our own collective. | ||
* ally - what is your proposal, as in for a ban or time period? im asking, not to say im in agreement | * ally - what is your proposal, as in for a ban or time period? im asking, not to say im in agreement | ||
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* ally - no ban? | * ally - no ban? | ||
* jemma - im interested in investigation of those harms. no silencing or talking over each other. not allowing racism transphobia misogyny | * jemma - im interested in investigation of those harms. no silencing or talking over each other. not allowing racism transphobia misogyny | ||
* carl - jems asking you not being facilitator is not | * carl - jems asking you not being facilitator is not targeting. i dont agree with that. a facilitator needs to to take a neutral position. youre not taking a neutral position. whether you are justified or not, views on what harms been done to you. simple reason why you were asked to not be facilitator. not to silence you. you have had opportunities to stay your piece. | ||
* jake - i want to say that there are a lot of instances of vague accusations of raism transphobia | * jake - i want to say that there are a lot of instances of vague accusations of raism transphobia and misogyny. all real issues. actual things that happen. if i do something that are these things, i want to know about it. i agree with seq. right response is to ask what have i done. but in situations when its clear to me that it is to silence and ban me from my community, dont agree on who we give building to or who we partner with. that said there are lots of opportunities for the many times i was accused of racism and islamophobia, over and over with CLP and yar. i have asked for them to tell me what i have done wrong, they dont, they whip up a fervor, in terms of CLP they doxxed me and put flyers around. rafiq calls me racist for not giving CLP immediate status as collective. as far back as april these accusations here, but i have asked many times and they dont have anything. clear to me its a accusations to silence me and purge attempt. when i was banned on saturday, i tried to find out what ive accused of. and i heard just a lot of people. i went to mediation with jacqi, and jacqi told me harms were talking about rafiq, i accidentally misgendered them. and that i was racist on sep 21 meeting. email from danielle said it was a vicious attack by me and yar. i have been coming the lists. when i first heard that accusation, i thought there must be something i said i forgot, but didnt find it. asking people to be more mindful, when these issues are brought, they are not brought up in bad faith. i get it im annoying im sorry, but to try and mobilize that against me because i do a lot of things or am present, or in way of political positions, and then not giving me any process of just | ||
* Muirén [in chat] | * Muirén [in chat] - Carl's neutrality is rooted in both-side-ism. There is no neutrality within a society based on a gender and racialized class hierarchy. | ||
* Jems [in chat] | * Jems [in chat] - Can facilitator keep us on topic? I wasn't here in April | ||
* Sequoia [in chat] | * Sequoia [in chat]- Im thinking that since accusations of racism are current to the question of jakes ban, it could be relevant | ||
* Carl [in chat] | * Carl [in chat] - Muiren, I think you don't understand what I was saying. | ||
* arthur - very difficult to participate in these meetings as a single parent. can we keep it more concise | * arthur - very difficult to participate in these meetings as a single parent. can we keep it more concise | ||
* | * muirén - we need to get back to the survival of the facility | ||
* yar - nobody calling for jake to be immediately banned right now. we are all accepting that jake is currently in building and facts are going to investigated. the decision before us tonight, correct if im wrong, who is going to be delegate, and how will they vote on jamals contract | * yar - nobody calling for jake to be immediately banned right now. we are all accepting that jake is currently in building and facts are going to investigated. the decision before us tonight, correct if im wrong, who is going to be delegate, and how will they vote on jamals contract | ||
* jake - i want to respond thats true | * jake - i want to respond thats true | ||
* yar - in terms of what you are saying, i care about you and it has hurt me so much to see all this happening for the past or year or so. my | * yar - in terms of what you are saying, i care about you and it has hurt me so much to see all this happening for the past or year or so. my understanding of what is happening is that i know you have strong antiracist beliefs but you are failing to live up to them because you are hurt | ||
* jake - can you be | * jake - can you be specific? | ||
* yar - youre hurt because of CLP | * yar - youre hurt because of CLP | ||
* jake - i want you to be specific about harms | * jake - i want you to be specific about harms | ||
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* jemma - can facilitator step in? jake should not be interrupting | * jemma - can facilitator step in? jake should not be interrupting | ||
* ally - i think its up to yar | * ally - i think its up to yar | ||
* yar - not a matter of respect, it just more efficient to let me keep going... i really do believe that the primary harm here, there are relatively small things at first with your interactions with people you have sociological privilege over. in your interactions with people where you center yourself so much, where you dont see other persons experience of you, the impact is racist transphobic and misogynistic. i was | * yar - not a matter of respect, it just more efficient to let me keep going... i really do believe that the primary harm here, there are relatively small things at first with your interactions with people you have sociological privilege over. in your interactions with people where you center yourself so much, where you dont see other persons experience of you, the impact is racist transphobic and misogynistic. i was begging you to go to the meeting... | ||
* jake - i wasnt on agenda for the meeting, [i would've gone if it was] | * jake - i wasnt on agenda for the meeting, [i would've gone if it was] | ||
* paige - there are never agendas for the meetings [not happy about it but not peculiar] | * paige - there are never agendas for the meetings [not happy about it but not peculiar] | ||
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* jake - i am frustrated by being accused without examples. harmful to me. what i was just asking for, tell me what i did. and i got some abstract theory and thats frustrating to me | * jake - i am frustrated by being accused without examples. harmful to me. what i was just asking for, tell me what i did. and i got some abstract theory and thats frustrating to me | ||
* julie - me too, there are potentials of other loan sources | * julie - me too, there are potentials of other loan sources | ||
* | * muirén [in chat] - Treat Jake and others like family members who've screwed up and need help to being functional family members. They can't learn better if we kick them out, divorce them. | ||
* Eva Galperin [in chat] - I don't think anyone has advocated for anything other than a very temporary ban, followed by an investigation. | * Eva Galperin [in chat] - I don't think anyone has advocated for anything other than a very temporary ban, followed by an investigation. | ||
* Carl [in chat] - I have to leave, but want to say for later, that I have personally witnessed 2 instances where Jake was wrongfully accused of racism over the past few weeks. And I hope that Jake will not be banned or silenced at this point in time because everyone should be able to contribute their viewpoint regarding what to do about the Omni, and I want Jake to be unhindered from continuing to work on the LLC option or any other ways to help the Omni survive. We need "all hands on deck" for the survival of the Omni, and I hope we can get back to that goal. | * Carl [in chat] - I have to leave, but want to say for later, that I have personally witnessed 2 instances where Jake was wrongfully accused of racism over the past few weeks. And I hope that Jake will not be banned or silenced at this point in time because everyone should be able to contribute their viewpoint regarding what to do about the Omni, and I want Jake to be unhindered from continuing to work on the LLC option or any other ways to help the Omni survive. We need "all hands on deck" for the survival of the Omni, and I hope we can get back to that goal. | ||
* jamal - speaking directly is sometimes helpful and meaningful. start with | * jamal - speaking directly is sometimes helpful and meaningful. start with carl's commentary. i think it is harmful to suggest that he as a white male can say they werent the victim, truly. not anyone's space. not going to get into details. but we are debating something not in effect. in grand scheme of people in here, how useful is this to saving the building? i cant understand for the life of me how 1. ppl in this room has been on this board have not come up with something in 2 years, and 2. when people bring up things, there are no bans right now. there are behaviors that are troubling. my advice is attorney. behavior of one of the delegates, coming in late, not participating in group norms, disclosing info, acting like its a secret when it was meant to allow delegate communication. all of these impediments to finding 900k. im not here because i want money. im not here to unduly enrich myself. self centering illustrates why this hasnt worked. though i appreciate this conversation, wondering what the end goal was. why was it brought to a group of ppl who had nothing to do with the conversation? and not people who made the decision. harmful and absolutely toxic to bring everyone into conversation to this argument without first going to who you were referred to | ||
* arthur - can we please do the voting? | * arthur - can we please do the voting? | ||
* ally - i want to note that the facilitation im doing is not optimal. i dont know agenda. paige offered but is now busy taking notes. so yes not optimal. now people are calling for.. one of overarching issues that people have referenced, this question of omni and sudo as an anarchist face, how to balance what happens in anarchist space, these debates or centering of issues, or something that is very structured, like decision over what to do with omni. do want to try to do a better job to refocus on things that are an agenda | * ally - i want to note that the facilitation im doing is not optimal. i dont know agenda. paige offered but is now busy taking notes. so yes not optimal. now people are calling for.. one of overarching issues that people have referenced, this question of omni and sudo as an anarchist face, how to balance what happens in anarchist space, these debates or centering of issues, or something that is very structured, like decision over what to do with omni. do want to try to do a better job to refocus on things that are an agenda | ||
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* Ed [in chat] - Can someone tell me what the vote total was on having Jems act as facilitor? I was screwing with hardware. | * Ed [in chat] - Can someone tell me what the vote total was on having Jems act as facilitor? I was screwing with hardware. | ||
* angl3a [in chat] - its in the notes | * angl3a [in chat] - its in the notes | ||
* Jems [in chat] from the notes, straw poll to decide on jemma as facitilator, against - jake, eric, arthur, abstain - sierk, alex, philup, approve - yar, peter, sequioa, angela, paige, | * Jems [in chat] from the notes, straw poll to decide on jemma as facitilator, against - jake, eric, arthur, abstain - sierk, alex, philup, approve - yar, peter, sequioa, angela, paige, muirén | ||
* Ed [in chat] - Thanks | * Ed [in chat] - Thanks | ||
* ally - limited interaction in omni and sudo, lack of process or procedures. even from entering the space. like step one disagree on what facilitator roles is. leads to conflict. disagreement on how voting works, or how to honor it. disagreements on how to move forward, what hierarchy is . | * ally - limited interaction in omni and sudo, lack of process or procedures. even from entering the space. like step one disagree on what facilitator roles is. leads to conflict. disagreement on how voting works, or how to honor it. disagreements on how to move forward, what hierarchy is . | ||
* sequoia: i really want to take stock, which is we now have several individuals | * sequoia: i really want to take stock, which is we now have several individuals who feel wronged by other individuals, and more broadly at omni. Jamal said, really thoughtful: 1. i agree that there's a lot of self centering of hurt that's going on, in a public forum that needs to be putting its resources toward a bigger problem, jamal suggested that we go 1:1 with the other person, if you feel safe going directly to that person; we're all feeling the drain of how much it sucks for everybody all laundry in a public forum. Go directly to the people you have a conflict with and resolve as two adults. I personally believe the only person who is in a position to solve this problem is Jamal. I get that theres a lot of conflict right now, but Jamal is speaking the language of someone who can raise a million dollars, and patience, and i see that people have been hurt and i want to see how can we work on the pain that we have, and stop centering ourselves and our individual pain in this, the only person who can solve our building problems is Jamal, so we need to figure out how to accept Jamal. | ||
* yar - as much as i want to keep going into it, i want to offer, people should think if we have more questions for jamal, otherwise we should let jamal leave and then vote | * yar - as much as i want to keep going into it, i want to offer, people should think if we have more questions for jamal, otherwise we should let jamal leave and then vote | ||
* anwar introduces himself | * anwar introduces himself | ||
* jamal - i want to offer the complication of this conversation. | * jamal - i want to offer the complication of this conversation. emotionally labor always exhausting. my phone is on and if people need to reach out to me, i encourage them to reach out to me. i dont think it was appropriate email sent out without me. want to uplift that love is liberatory. dont see that right. i see people talking past each other. i see people pouring gasoline. i dont want to come in here as someone wanting to get rid of people. but commentary, some of that is not true. i encourage you to have a convo with me about how love is liberatory. i don't think the investigation will happen quickly, need to interview people. i made commitment to do the right thing. sorry that has been skewed to be dishonest. call me, emails that referenced my name, hating ppl takes too much energy. constant fluctuation of delegates is bad. keep changing the matrix by which the board takes effective action. job is not to block or be retaliatory because u don't like someone. protect interests of organization. sudoroom rep is not repping sudoroom but stability of omni commons. those things over lap but it's important you have delegates that are consistent. jems and paige have been in those convos. i would caution and invite you to be weary of people that were only in the room for an hour and did some other stuff. we need stability. no matter what you decide, if you leave elevating hating someone, you doing the wrong thing. you shouldn't hate anybody. invite you to ? of love as a liberatory tool. select paige or jemma as delegate. importance of stability to apply for a million dollar loans. need to go. i appreciate everyone for putting their whole self. disagree with comments made in writing and in person. i love all of you. i invite you to community with me for a convo. | ||
* jamal (notes taken by difff person) patrik has only been consistent. changing matrix with which board makes action. ban not supposed to be retaliatory. job to protect | * jamal (notes taken by difff person) patrik has only been consistent. changing matrix with which board makes action. ban not supposed to be retaliatory. job to protect fiduciary interest. not interest on sudo room, but rather financial stability of omni. importance of stability | ||
* | * muirén [in chat but left meeting by time it was read] - what is comment jamal's referring to? | ||
* jamal - yea not addressing that right now | * jamal - yea not addressing that right now | ||
jamal leaves | jamal leaves | ||
* jake - i have jamal's number, i called him on dec 20th. silver gave it to me. i had full trust and faith in jamal. i assumed that everything would make sense. since them he has destroyed any trust i could have in him. i know those are strong words. | * jake - i have jamal's number, i called him on dec 20th. silver gave it to me. i had full trust and faith in jamal. i assumed that everything would make sense. since them he has destroyed any trust i could have in him. i know those are strong words. | ||
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* jake - did you send thing about executive power | * jake - did you send thing about executive power | ||
* jems - is the a proposal or draft | * jems - is the a proposal or draft | ||
* sequioia - there were certain things that were | * sequioia - there were certain things that were hearsay | ||
* eric - im not sure what he was saying | * eric - im not sure what he was saying hearsay. reading a letter from legal council | ||
* eric - *eric reads* notes will be in copied and pasted from via email | * eric - *eric reads* notes will be in copied and pasted from via email | ||
* jemma - not proposal that's in front of delegates? | * jemma - not proposal that's in front of delegates? | ||
* paige - summary of what jamal and | * paige - summary of what jamal and lawyer talked about. delegates spend next meeting discussing then hold out for a vote for week after. | ||
* jemma - misleading. not proposal. draft. communication from lawyer. started talking about jamal when he left the room. shouldn't be our delegate. | * jemma - misleading. not proposal. draft. communication from lawyer. started talking about jamal when he left the room. shouldn't be our delegate. | ||
* arthur - told it's true then not true, please don't gaslight me in a public setting | * arthur - told it's true then not true, please don't gaslight me in a public setting | ||
* jemma - nobody gaslighting, saying what's true. not a proposal. | * jemma - nobody gaslighting, saying what's true. not a proposal. | ||
* sierk - i explicitly asked to be able to hear his text to be read, i would like that to be taken into account, i don't care if its a proposal, this is what we have right now, and this information is helpful and thats why i asked for it to be read out loud | * sierk - i explicitly asked to be able to hear his text to be read, i would like that to be taken into account, i don't care if its a proposal, this is what we have right now, and this information is helpful and thats why i asked for it to be read out loud | ||
* yar - thank you for reading the email. i think it was clear to me that it was from a lawyer, responding second hand. this is first time i have heard these words. i think we should take lawyers advice in how to structure the percentage. because that will be functionally what jamal wanted. i understand you are probably | * yar - thank you for reading the email. i think it was clear to me that it was from a lawyer, responding second hand. this is first time i have heard these words. i think we should take lawyers advice in how to structure the percentage. because that will be functionally what jamal wanted. i understand you are probably worried about the power to ban people | ||
* jemma - i think its not okay to say its a proposal | * jemma - i think its not okay to say its a proposal | ||
* room says thats understood | * room says thats understood | ||
* yar - are we voting if we wanting to generally agree with an ed then vote on contract next week? | * yar - are we voting if we wanting to generally agree with an ed then vote on contract next week? | ||
* paige - think we want to vote as soon as possible so he can start working. john said it's the send of the room that we want to go forward with contract. | * paige - think we want to vote as soon as possible so he can start working. john said it's the send of the room that we want to go forward with contract. toan corrected we're not voting to approve it, approving to talk to a lawyer. could choose to vote yes to a contract tomorrow. | ||
* sequoia - i think eric made it clear that it was not a proposal. i did not feel that was misleading. jemma i think it was | * sequoia - i think eric made it clear that it was not a proposal. i did not feel that was misleading. jemma i think it was inappropriate to say eric was misleading people. in general, for an ED to be able to meet with a people who have a lot of money. those people will need broad authority. but do not support ability to ban 2 individuals. part that board can veto is important. we must have some ability to negotiate the contract. * jake - i think it is a very good question, what are we voting on? i agree with what sequoia said that everything, personally im very invested in request for power to ban people from omni, not in line with our values. want to formally say no to that. in general terms, for me and mysterious other person. sudo room should not give up its ability to say what the omni commons should do. that should be clarified in the proposal, given lawyer said he didnt know how to do that. compiler error. we should be formal that we dont agree to any contract. in theory that is a delay but we have meetings every week | ||
* julie - what sequoia was talking about being ok with jamal in general having power, talking to fancy people, but I do not agree with his ability to ban people, i think that goes against what he was saying about not | * julie - what sequoia was talking about being ok with jamal in general having power, talking to fancy people, but I do not agree with his ability to ban people, i think that goes against what he was saying about not knowing people long enough to hate us, then why you need power to ban people . Sudoroom can discuss on how to ban people later. that valid concern and not open our space to people who make unsafe, but i worry about giving him unilateral ability to ban because.. | ||
* anwar - two things, from my understanding, any ban that jamal would make would be appealable to the board. i wonder if thats enough, if someone is causing problems and getting in the way, doing CLP like blockading, useful to stop that asap, given board can undo. lawyer did specifically say he is not an employment specialist. i want to be careful about putting too much stock in that statement of him being unclear | * anwar - two things, from my understanding, any ban that jamal would make would be appealable to the board. i wonder if thats enough, if someone is causing problems and getting in the way, doing CLP like blockading, useful to stop that asap, given board can undo. lawyer did specifically say he is not an employment specialist. i want to be careful about putting too much stock in that statement of him being unclear | ||
* peter - boards override ED. ED serves at the pleasure of the board | * peter - boards override ED. ED serves at the pleasure of the board | ||
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* thomas - should we get one? in terms of dissolution of omni | * thomas - should we get one? in terms of dissolution of omni | ||
* eric - we are trying to avoid dissolution | * eric - we are trying to avoid dissolution | ||
* alex - | * alex - recommendation to the board to look into his resume. | ||
* paige - there were working groups created. john patrick and me write counterproposal. i was tasked to get his resume and we sent it to that group. | * paige - there were working groups created. john patrick and me write counterproposal. i was tasked to get his resume and we sent it to that group. | ||
* sequoia? - we don't have a contract yet. i feel like the ban discussion is a | * sequoia? - we don't have a contract yet. i feel like the ban discussion is a distraction. nobody liked idea of executive ban. suggest we keep an eye but don't need to talk bout it unless it actually shows up in proposed contract | ||
* jake - someone said that talking about the ban that the delegates could have reversed that. as in email i was told the only avenue i had to appeal was to talk to jamal. i experienced during this ban was to talk to jamal. after jamal disconnected, i dont feel like i can trust him. i wish that could be repaired. there was a situation where board didnt have power. | * jake - someone said that talking about the ban that the delegates could have reversed that. as in email i was told the only avenue i had to appeal was to talk to jamal. i experienced during this ban was to talk to jamal. after jamal disconnected, i dont feel like i can trust him. i wish that could be repaired. there was a situation where board didnt have power. | ||
* paige - you were sent that by delegate. he is taking this ed role seriously. he's gonna be making a lot of moves and it's up the board to appeal. | * paige - you were sent that by delegate. he is taking this ed role seriously. he's gonna be making a lot of moves and it's up the board to appeal. | ||
* - no one says no you're fired | * - no one says no you're fired | ||
* facilitator - this could go on indefinitely, when to cut it off? i don't understand. are we decideing whether to vote right now? what agenda issues? | * facilitator - this could go on indefinitely, when to cut it off? i don't understand. are we decideing whether to vote right now? what agenda issues? | ||
* alex - status quo? paige good | * alex - status quo? paige good delegate? (some yesses) | ||
* philip - i'm not making judgements about Jamal but anyone with the power to ban people, whats to stop them from banning the whole board | * philip - i'm not making judgements about Jamal but anyone with the power to ban people, whats to stop them from banning the whole board | ||
* eric - they're only asking for power to ban 2 people | * eric - they're only asking for power to ban 2 people | ||
* angl3a - second | * angl3a - second alex's proposal to do status quo. vote of confidence in paige | ||
* alex - right now 2 | * alex - right now 2 delegates, status quo, continue with that? | ||
* eric - yes its us two, paige and i | * eric - yes its us two, paige and i | ||
* jake - i want us to clarify what we want the delegate to do specifically and generally. i really believe in delegates reflecting the will of collectives. having been a delegate in the past, i still made an effort to make emails about votes. in this case there was discussion about if delegate is interest in SR or OC. clear about that. | * jake - i want us to clarify what we want the delegate to do specifically and generally. i really believe in delegates reflecting the will of collectives. having been a delegate in the past, i still made an effort to make emails about votes. in this case there was discussion about if delegate is interest in SR or OC. clear about that. somebody might go with whats best for OC, but that conflicts with people here. other thing i want to point out is agenda item is voting for media lab. last thing pointed out. clarify what we want our delegate to say. what kind of things stands, delegate should say "i wont step into something without sudo room." | ||
* paige - can make decision that sudoroom blocks everything tomorrow | * paige - can make decision that sudoroom blocks everything tomorrow | ||
* sequoia - love it if we didn't do that | * sequoia - love it if we didn't do that | ||
* paige - how | * paige - how much delegate is beholden to their collective varies among collectives. i.e. patrik has a lot more agency in how he votes. seen bigotry in ccl where he brings them into more consensus building and put out fires. i'm trying to work towards more consensus building. thinking about what is best for sudoroom as a space in omni, how to be making sudo room the most welcoming and achieve goals listed on wiki. as opposed to just representing loudest voices in jake ban complaining email list. im thinking also about the best going forward for omni commons where there's a lot of divisiveness and people burning out. so i have been voting that way but acknowledge that the ed thing requires more discussion with group. | ||
* facilitator - discussions about what delegacy is | * facilitator - discussions about what delegacy is, is big topic | ||
* angl3a - i want a vote in confidence of paige | * angl3a - i want a vote in confidence of paige | ||
* eric - i feel erased by this | * eric - i feel erased by this vote | ||
* sequoia - eric is a delegate and paige is a delegate. i want to find a path forward with jamal. i understand eric might not feel that way. i guess my question is... we talked about if delegates should represent group, so could take a straw poll. eric would comfortable to looking at a contract with jamal if we dont support non-ban. | * sequoia - eric is a delegate and paige is a delegate. i want to find a path forward with jamal. i understand eric might not feel that way. i guess my question is... we talked about if delegates should represent group, so could take a straw poll. eric would comfortable to looking at a contract with jamal if we dont support non-ban. | ||
* eric- i would look at any proposal. i am deeply hesitant about any authoritarian structure. departure from status quo. im not into any sort of king but i know we are in dire straits right now. | * eric - i would look at any proposal. i am deeply hesitant about any authoritarian structure. departure from status quo. im not into any sort of king but i know we are in dire straits right now. | ||
* cere and al joins | * cere and al joins | ||
* sequoia - personally im looking for something stronger. i think no one equipped to solve problems except jamal. | * sequoia - personally im looking for something stronger. i think no one equipped to solve problems except jamal. | ||
* jake - just to say im in favor too. only issue has been this personal issue and banning issue. thats my only problem. other concerns i have. but only thing i think is important. maybe he is really good to communicate with people | * jake - just to say im in favor too. only issue has been this personal issue and banning issue. thats my only problem. other concerns i have. but only thing i think is important. maybe he is really good to communicate with people | ||
* sequoia - i would want to send a delegate who is open to resolving these conflicts in a way towards finding a solution to work with jamal. | * sequoia - i would want to send a delegate who is open to resolving these conflicts in a way towards finding a solution to work with jamal. | ||
* eric - im here to represent sudo room. i want to see this space continue. but to me, sudo room is not this building. sudo room was a community before this space. even if we lose this space | * eric - im here to represent sudo room. i want to see this space continue. but to me, sudo room is not this building. sudo room was a community before this space. not gonna sacrifice our group for a fucking building. even if we lose this space, it's just four walls. | ||
* peter - I'll offer a counter, if we are going impassioned appeals | * peter - I'll offer a counter, if we are going impassioned appeals. In spirit of the omni collective, the reason why sudo room is a core and founding member is this idea of stronger together. my repair work requires other parts of building. i cant function without media lab. ccl next to us. if this space goes away its not coming back. sudo room and omni commons are inextricably connected. unreasonable to lose that. antithetical to all the core values. and still people think they can walk away with something? i dont see it | ||
* sequoia - i no longer support idea that we can dissolve the building. moved by what PP said. asset to the building. crime that we could let this building go. used to think we could leave but no longer see that as ethical. eric i really appreciate you but i think you are too close to the conflict. | * sequoia - i no longer support idea that we can dissolve the building. i was moved by what PP said. asset to the building. crime that we could let this building go. used to think we could leave but no longer see that as ethical. eric i really appreciate you but i think you are too close to the conflict. | ||
* ally - i feel like paige spoke already. on how they feel consensus building. | * ally - i feel like paige spoke already. on how they feel consensus building. we should expedite. | ||
* paige - gets messy with who is the voter if the two delegates dont agree | * paige - gets messy with who is the voter if the two delegates dont agree | ||
* jake - hopefully they agree | * jake - hopefully they agree | ||
* establish rules for if | * eric and paige can establish rules for if they don't agree | ||
* paige - personally very against foreclosure. sudoroom is space i spend time in so i'm invested it but we need a different way of organizing. | * paige - personally very against foreclosure. sudoroom is space i spend time in so i'm invested it but we need a different way of organizing. personally appreciate some of the slowness of decision making because allows for more voices, but i feel we cant open up that can of worms right now. we need an ED to make moves faster because this is just too slow right now in time of emergency | ||
* angl3a - i move to vote for confidence in paige | * angl3a - i move to vote for confidence in paige | ||
* yar - i came into this meeting kind neutral. but now have concern about eric represening marginalized people. based on how you have been interacting with people. | * yar - i came into this meeting kind neutral. but now have concern about eric represening marginalized people. based on how you have been interacting with people. | ||
* eric- can you be more specific | * eric- can you be more specific? | ||
* yar - look around you. | * yar - look around you. | ||
* eric - i am | * eric - i am | ||
* yar - who you seem to be listening to and who you seem to be fighting with. reached a threshold | * yar - who you seem to be listening to and who you seem to be fighting with. reached a threshold for me. | ||
* eric - complaints are too non specific | * eric - the complaints are too non specific | ||
* sequoia - someone can say they are not | * sequoia - someone can say they are not | ||
=== vote in confidence of delegates === | |||
Are ppl are comfortable with status quo (eric and paige codelegate) | |||
* in favor: 13 | |||
* opposed: 4 | |||
* abstain: 3 | |||
== media lab proposal == | == media lab proposal == | ||