Re: [omi] hydraulics

*Gmail came prematurely. To continue:* Now seems like a good time to consider what we are doing and why we do it. I talked with Tom, Mark and Jehan briefly about our state of affairs and current direction. It made me realize that: * Most of us are excited about metalwork and building a big machine. Most of us are not specifically excited about the CEB press. * I hate giving up on things, and this gives me energy for continuing and finishing the CEB press regardless of findings about the state of OSE. * I am also open for defining another thing to build (ie. small-scale windmills), that might be more immidiately useful for ourselves and our communities in an urban environment. * Maybe those two work-foci are not mutually exclusive. What are your thoughts? *ALSO: OMI is of course on this Saturday from noon.* I won't be making it as I will be hacking Marin. On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Morten H. D. Fuglsang <vallebo(a)gmail.com > Hol, awesome! We definitely need more expertise in the area of > hydraulics. And good links too, thanks to both of ye. > > I was lurking the OSE forums a bit the other day. I found something that > scared me a bit: > http://forum.opensourceecology.org/discussion/1004/why-is-ose-so-quiet-late… > Some quotes: > > *Yoonseo, OSE team* > *Just want to clear things up with the facts about what's happening > with OSE. First and foremost, everyone on-site left OSE after the huge > conflict year-end 2012 between the team and Marcin.* > * > * > > * > Brianna, OSE team > * > > * > Lies about the quality of the products. The brick press produced shit > for bricks. They didn't have one flat surface on them. I personally built 4 > of these, which were all shipped out without proper testing. One was > shipped out a year after it was supposed to be. The power cube worked for a > week AT THE LONGEST > > * > > * > Ryan, random dude. > * > > * > I have a collective of makers that just received a space grant in > upstate NY that are making a list of first projects to focus on, and the > OSE Liberator and CEB press are near the top of the list. Hearing that the > Powercube design doesn't hold up to use and the CEB press being almost > useless scare the heck out of us though. Does anyone on here know who > purchased these preorders, or anyone that is using actively any iterations > of these pieces? I'd love to hear about their experiences. > > * > > * > Yoonseo, OSE team: > Hey Ryan, it's actually not so bad. OSE has been doing subpar builds > primarily due to haste and lack of care from Marcin, but the general > mechanisms (at least for the ceb press and powercube) are sound- we > couldn't have done the hablab/workshop without it. To be clear- the CEB > Press and Powercube work. Now the only issue is that you have to use good > materials and produce them properly (instead of the bad stuff that broke on > us over and over). > > The inexpensive surplus engines for the Powercube have frequently caused > problems due to breaking magnetos; a bunch of the solenoids broke too. > Shoddy commercial parts! So on the powercube side, as long as you get > engines with reliable accessories, and long-life solenoids, everything > should be fine. Remember to seal the threaded hydraulic connections and > tighten sufficiently- hydraulic leaks are bad! Also, I think the most > difficult part of the powercube production for you will be sealing and > installing the ports on the gasoline and hydraulic fluid reservoirs. Make > sure you get this done right else you'll get gas/hyd fluid leaks all over > the place. When I was at FeF there's mostly been problems with hydraulic > fluid leaking due to improperly sealed connections. No explosions though, > heh. > > Now the CEB Press can easily have issues surrounding its compression > chamber. If you do not use thick enough steel and insufficiently reinforce > the compression walls, you will get bending and that will get you curved > bricks. No good. Also the second thing was that the ejection surface must > be parallel or subsequent surfaces must be scaled in the proper direction. > Otherwise you will get the bottom of your bricks sliced by about 1/4" as it > gets ejected. Also make sure that the primary cylinder is high enough so > that the pressing surface can actually get to the ejection surface > (otherwise you gonna get some more bottom-slicing action). I think those > were the major issues. Make sure you put a pressure relief valve on there > eh. > > Hope that helps! -Yoonseo > > * > > > My conclusions: > * I predict OSE wont last much longer, and will ta some point stop being > the center of a lot of this open hardware infrastructure stuff. Groups will > fork it and improve upon the designs. > * hence thre is no need for us to associate ourselves closely with and > limit ourselves by, OSE. In terms of how we build and what we build. > Instead, it makes more sense for me to think of us as forking OSE. > * The CEB press can work if we use common sense and confirm the design > and do it very properly. If not, it wont work as well. We should not trust > the OSE plans and recommendations too much. > > > > > Make a great day, > Morten H. D. Fuglsang > US: +1 415 799 6931 // skype: FlyvendeHest > > > On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:35 AM, Anthony Di Franco <di.franco(a)gmail.com >> >> See also https://www.surpluscenter.com/hydraulic.asp?catname=hydraulicfor all your cheapness in hydraulics needs. >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Hol Gaskill <hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Folks, >>> >>> I haven't been around much for fabrication of the frame and probably >>> won't be there on saturday build days at least until mid june, but I would >>> like to help with the implementation of the hydraulics system. All the >>> designs I've seen are centered around the powercube which is powered by a >>> briggs and stratton engine. For simplicity and flexibility, I propose >>> using an electric pump either 12VDC or 120VAC, or a standard mount and >>> coupler so we could swap them out. It could still be powered by a >>> generator for remote applications, or ideally from solar/batteries. I just >>> see the OSE powercube as being a little more complex than we might prefer >>> moving forward, and we can still get the same force even if we go to a >>> lower power pump, the machine would just operate more slowly. >>> >>> >>> power unit: >>> >>> http://www.zorotools.com/g/00034368/k-G0711252?utm_source=google_shopping&a… >>> >>> valve example (just a cheap one...not researched) >>> http://www.coastpneumatics.com/valve-3quarter.html >>> >>> does anyone know the force/pressure we need for the rams? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> hol >>> _______________________________________________ >>> omi mailing list >>> omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> omi mailing list >> omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi >> >> > _______________________________________________ omi mailing list omi(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/omi