1 Apr
2018
1 Apr
'18
9:01 p.m.
*I'm putting together a solar wi-fi repeater for peoplesopen. Does anyone
have a number for average power consumption for the Ubiquiti NanoStaton
loco M2? Know of any cheaper/better components? *
*ItemCostSpecsBattery
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0010Z4MDK/ref=psdc_389574011_t1_B018IU1XSQ>$1712V,
5A, 60WCharge controller
<https://www.amazon.com/Y-SOLAR-Waterproof-Controller-Lead-acid-Discharging/dp/B00XTQ76WW/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1522631531&sr=8-20&keywords=solar+panel+with+charge+controller>$135A,
12V, 60W panel maxSolar Panel
<https://www.amazon.com/Polycrystalline-Solar-Panel-Module-Charging/dp/B01IFJ73X4/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1522634307&sr=8-7&keywords=20w+solar+panel>$3820W,
20.5”x14.4”Wifi Repeater
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HXT8FFI/ref=psdc_1194486_t1_B00DCNRTAG>$45Datasheet
<https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DfxWDUMRfWqSYGr9rSBUCFbibCPe-0vB>, Sales
page <https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanostationm/>, 5.5W max power, Up to 24V
DC inputTotal Cost including tax and shipping(17+13+38+45)*(1.1)+10 =
$135Power AuditThe wifi repeater claims a “max power of 5.5W” I’m hoping
that average power requirements are less than this? Assumptions (24hr
period):3W continuous average power usage20 hour up time4 hours of direct
sunlight (source
<https://solarpowerrocks.com/solar-basics/how-much-electricity-does-a-solar-panel-produce/>)85%
charge efficiency (source
<https://www.solar-facts.com/batteries/battery-charging.php>)Power
generation:4hr * 20W * 0.85 = 68 WhPower consumption ?:3W * 20hr = 60Wh*
--
Max Schwartz
maxschwartziv(a)gmail.com
314-578-4503
1 Apr
1 Apr
9:41 p.m.
I believe Nano M2's are ~6W. The data sheet lists it as 5.5W, ubnt is
usually pretty accurate on power consumption for sizing off-grid systems in
my experience.
I recommend checking out http://wndw.net/ for guidance on sizing the power
system if you're looking for more info. Even if you're shooting for
20hrs/day of uptime, it's *generally* better to size for at least 2 days of
uptime w/o sunlight (effective hours of sunlight; cloudy and foggy days are
effectively zero sunlight days). The bay area is pretty easy 'cause we have
good weather but if you want 90% uptime for the year (which is low, in
practice) you'll want at least a day of backup.
Also consider getting a timer of some sort to shut the device off if you
don't need it active at night! That will really save on your power budget.
On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:01 PM, Max Schwartz <maxschwartziv(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
*I'm putting together a solar wi-fi repeater for
peoplesopen. Does anyone
have a number for average power consumption for the Ubiquiti NanoStaton
loco M2? Know of any cheaper/better components? *
*ItemCostSpecsBattery
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0010Z4MDK/ref=psdc_389574011_t1_B018IU1XSQ>$1712V,
5A, 60WCharge controller
<https://www.amazon.com/Y-SOLAR-Waterproof-Controller-Lead-acid-Discharging/dp/B00XTQ76WW/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1522631531&sr=8-20&keywords=solar+panel+with+charge+controller>$135A,
12V, 60W panel maxSolar Panel
<https://www.amazon.com/Polycrystalline-Solar-Panel-Module-Charging/dp/B01IFJ73X4/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1522634307&sr=8-7&keywords=20w+solar+panel>$3820W,
20.5”x14.4”Wifi Repeater
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HXT8FFI/ref=psdc_1194486_t1_B00DCNRTAG>$45Datasheet
<https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DfxWDUMRfWqSYGr9rSBUCFbibCPe-0vB>, Sales
page <https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanostationm/>, 5.5W max power, Up to 24V
DC inputTotal Cost including tax and shipping(17+13+38+45)*(1.1)+10 =
$135Power AuditThe wifi repeater claims a “max power of 5.5W” I’m hoping
that average power requirements are less than this? Assumptions (24hr
period):3W continuous average power usage20 hour up time4 hours of direct
sunlight (source
<https://solarpowerrocks.com/solar-basics/how-much-electricity-does-a-solar-panel-produce/>)85%
charge efficiency (source
<https://www.solar-facts.com/batteries/battery-charging.php>)Power
generation:4hr * 20W * 0.85 = 68 WhPower consumption ?:3W * 20hr = 60Wh*
--
Max Schwartz
maxschwartziv(a)gmail.com
314-578-4503 <(314)%20578-4503>
_______________________________________________
mesh mailing list
mesh(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/mesh
2 Apr
2 Apr
12:55 a.m.
sweet, max!! i'd also suggest taking a gander at elektra's open hardware
mppt controller project <https://github.com/elektra42/freifunk-open-mppt>,
which she presented at last year's battlemesh
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLP4MxQp8kk> (juul is the one asking mad
questions at the end lol)
are you proposing a sudo mesh budget to build a prototype? if so, we can
put it on the agenda for an upcoming meeting.
thanks also to shaddhi for sharing your knowledge - glad you're on this
list! :)
<3
Jenny
Help open a professional kitchen at the Omni Commons in Oakland!
https://omnicommons.org/kitchen
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
"Anything done for the first time unleashes a demon."
--Dave Sim, "Cerebus the Aardvark"
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:41 PM, Shaddi Hasan <shaddih(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I believe Nano M2's are ~6W. The data sheet lists
it as 5.5W, ubnt is
usually pretty accurate on power consumption for sizing off-grid systems in
my experience.
I recommend checking out http://wndw.net/ for guidance on sizing the
power system if you're looking for more info. Even if you're shooting for
20hrs/day of uptime, it's *generally* better to size for at least 2 days of
uptime w/o sunlight (effective hours of sunlight; cloudy and foggy days are
effectively zero sunlight days). The bay area is pretty easy 'cause we have
good weather but if you want 90% uptime for the year (which is low, in
practice) you'll want at least a day of backup.
Also consider getting a timer of some sort to shut the device off if you
don't need it active at night! That will really save on your power budget.
On Sun, Apr 1, 2018 at 9:01 PM, Max Schwartz <maxschwartziv(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
*I'm putting together a solar wi-fi repeater
for peoplesopen. Does
anyone have a number for average power consumption for the Ubiquiti
NanoStaton loco M2? Know of any cheaper/better components? *
*ItemCostSpecsBattery
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0010Z4MDK/ref=psdc_389574011_t1_B018IU1XSQ>$1712V,
5A, 60WCharge controller
<https://www.amazon.com/Y-SOLAR-Waterproof-Controller-Lead-acid-Discharging/dp/B00XTQ76WW/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1522631531&sr=8-20&keywords=solar+panel+with+charge+controller>$135A,
12V, 60W panel maxSolar Panel
<https://www.amazon.com/Polycrystalline-Solar-Panel-Module-Charging/dp/B01IFJ73X4/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1522634307&sr=8-7&keywords=20w+solar+panel>$3820W,
20.5”x14.4”Wifi Repeater
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HXT8FFI/ref=psdc_1194486_t1_B00DCNRTAG>$45Datasheet
<https://drive.google.com/open?id=1DfxWDUMRfWqSYGr9rSBUCFbibCPe-0vB>, Sales
page <https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanostationm/>, 5.5W max power, Up to 24V
DC inputTotal Cost including tax and shipping(17+13+38+45)*(1.1)+10 =
$135Power AuditThe wifi repeater claims a “max power of 5.5W” I’m hoping
that average power requirements are less than this? Assumptions (24hr
period):3W continuous average power usage20 hour up time4 hours of direct
sunlight (source
<https://solarpowerrocks.com/solar-basics/how-much-electricity-does-a-solar-panel-produce/>)85%
charge efficiency (source
<https://www.solar-facts.com/batteries/battery-charging.php>)Power
generation:4hr * 20W * 0.85 = 68 WhPower consumption ?:3W * 20hr = 60Wh*
--
Max Schwartz
maxschwartziv(a)gmail.com
314-578-4503 <(314)%20578-4503>
_______________________________________________
mesh mailing list
mesh(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/mesh
_______________________________________________
mesh mailing list
mesh(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/mesh
9:42 a.m.
Here are my measurements:
Nanostation Loco M2
24V 170mA peak, 130mA
12V 320mA peak, 230-240mA
9V 430mA peak, 310-320mA
5V 790mA, 550-560mA
4.5V no
if you are looking for great off the shelf mppt solar charger check
out this one:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=mppt+charge+controller&_sop=15&am…
You can configure it to use Pb or Lithium batteries, it is really great.
If you are looking for a more advanced DIY solution check out this
awesome open hardware MPPT solar charger:
https://soldernerd.com/mppt-solar-charger/
Cheers,
Valent
11:58 a.m.
Max consider also adding INA219 voltage and current monitor. You can
connect it via i2c bus to most OpenWrt devices, or add additional ESP8266
that will use INA219 chip to monitor current and voltage.
If you don't have some kind of remote monitoring you will regret it later,
I talk from experience :)
Also using Grafana is great for this, you can see one of our latest setups:
https://imgur.com/a/Z9qhk
Cheers,
Valent.
6:28 p.m.
Ok, here's what I'm thinking. The solar repeater would be more of a
temporary (months?) solution for people outside of the mesh's radius that
want in. It would be a link that mostly works during the day and sunny
ones at that. The people in the repeater chain would receive mesh internet
for some period if they want a permanent solution they can contact
peoplesopen and integrate with a home node. If not, we can always move the
repeater chain and try a new mesh tendril.
A solar repeater would be much quicker to set up, could be done with a 2
person team, and you wouldn't need to interact with the homeowner or go
inside their house. Possibly as short a setup as 30min vs 2hrs to to
integrate a home node.
Nanostation Loco M2 averages 3-4W? That's great news! The panel probably
needs to stay fixed at the 20W size, anything larger than that seems too
expensive and cumbersome to carry and mount without additional hardware.
Definitely need remote voltage and current monitoring Valent, good call.
Are we sure that MPPT is the way to go over PWM? Cost reasons number 1,
but I was worried that the additional micro-controller would eat the power
that was gained in increased efficiency for a low power application like
this.
Jenny, I'm putting 2 of these together as a proof of concept, if the mesh
wants to cover expenses I won't say no :)
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 11:58 AM, Valent Turkovic <valent(a)otvorenamreza.org>
wrote:
Max consider also adding INA219 voltage and current
monitor. You can
connect it via i2c bus to most OpenWrt devices, or add additional ESP8266
that will use INA219 chip to monitor current and voltage.
If you don't have some kind of remote monitoring you will regret it later,
I talk from experience :)
Also using Grafana is great for this, you can see one of our latest setups:
https://imgur.com/a/Z9qhk
Cheers,
Valent.
--
Max Schwartz
maxschwartziv(a)gmail.com
314-578-4503
3 Apr
3 Apr
11:32 a.m.
I'm starting a test lab together with local high school as a project
for school kids. Plan is to compare lots of pwm and few mppt solar
chargers and different solar panels...
I have donated quite a few chargers and solar panels to local school
but if you have any device that you see on ebay and wish to add it to
this test setup you need to send it (donate it) to school in EU
(Croatia).
We will publish all results publicly.
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 3:28 AM, Max Schwartz <maxschwartziv(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, here's what I'm thinking. The solar
repeater would be more of a
temporary (months?) solution for people outside of the mesh's radius that
want in. It would be a link that mostly works during the day and sunny ones
at that. The people in the repeater chain would receive mesh internet for
some period if they want a permanent solution they can contact peoplesopen
and integrate with a home node. If not, we can always move the repeater
chain and try a new mesh tendril.
A solar repeater would be much quicker to set up, could be done with a 2
person team, and you wouldn't need to interact with the homeowner or go
inside their house. Possibly as short a setup as 30min vs 2hrs to to
integrate a home node.
Nanostation Loco M2 averages 3-4W? That's great news! The panel probably
needs to stay fixed at the 20W size, anything larger than that seems too
expensive and cumbersome to carry and mount without additional hardware.
Definitely need remote voltage and current monitoring Valent, good call.
Are we sure that MPPT is the way to go over PWM? Cost reasons number 1, but
I was worried that the additional micro-controller would eat the power that
was gained in increased efficiency for a low power application like this.
Jenny, I'm putting 2 of these together as a proof of concept, if the mesh
wants to cover expenses I won't say no :)
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 11:58 AM, Valent Turkovic <valent(a)otvorenamreza.org>
wrote:
Max consider also adding INA219 voltage and current monitor. You can
connect it via i2c bus to most OpenWrt devices, or add additional ESP8266
that will use INA219 chip to monitor current and voltage.
If you don't have some kind of remote monitoring you will regret it later,
I talk from experience :)
Also using Grafana is great for this, you can see one of our latest
setups:
https://imgur.com/a/Z9qhk
Cheers,
Valent.
--
Max Schwartz
maxschwartziv(a)gmail.com
314-578-4503 
11:53 a.m.
Super awesome proposal Max, I'm happy to help facilitate the development of
these prototypes as involves People's Open. I can help make sure the
sudowrt firmware works with whatever antennas you end up settling on (I
have a Nanostation Loco M2 I've been meaning to test).
Also something that may be of interest to you is the Mikrotik Wireless
Wire, https://mikrotik.com/product/wireless_wire
They are supposed to be very easy to setup, come in pairs, are relatively
cheap ($200 for a pair). While they are meant for short throws (~100m LOS)
and operate in the 60GHz spectrum, they do provide a full duplex gigabit
wireless link. Might be something to consider depending on how you plan on
deploying these repeaters. I've been meaning to order a few to see how
People's Open could use them.
-grant
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 6:28 PM, Max Schwartz <maxschwartziv(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Ok, here's what I'm thinking. The solar
repeater would be more of a
temporary (months?) solution for people outside of the mesh's radius that
want in. It would be a link that mostly works during the day and sunny
ones at that. The people in the repeater chain would receive mesh internet
for some period if they want a permanent solution they can contact
peoplesopen and integrate with a home node. If not, we can always move the
repeater chain and try a new mesh tendril.
A solar repeater would be much quicker to set up, could be done with a 2
person team, and you wouldn't need to interact with the homeowner or go
inside their house. Possibly as short a setup as 30min vs 2hrs to to
integrate a home node.
Nanostation Loco M2 averages 3-4W? That's great news! The panel probably
needs to stay fixed at the 20W size, anything larger than that seems too
expensive and cumbersome to carry and mount without additional hardware.
Definitely need remote voltage and current monitoring Valent, good call.
Are we sure that MPPT is the way to go over PWM? Cost reasons number 1,
but I was worried that the additional micro-controller would eat the power
that was gained in increased efficiency for a low power application like
this.
Jenny, I'm putting 2 of these together as a proof of concept, if the mesh
wants to cover expenses I won't say no :)
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 11:58 AM, Valent Turkovic <valent(a)otvorenamreza.org
wrote:
Max consider also adding INA219 voltage and
current monitor. You can
connect it via i2c bus to most OpenWrt devices, or add additional ESP8266
that will use INA219 chip to monitor current and voltage.
If you don't have some kind of remote monitoring you will regret it
later, I talk from experience :)
Also using Grafana is great for this, you can see one of our latest
setups:
https://imgur.com/a/Z9qhk
Cheers,
Valent.
--
Max Schwartz
maxschwartziv(a)gmail.com
314-578-4503 <(314)%20578-4503>
_______________________________________________
mesh mailing list
mesh(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/mesh
11:57 a.m.
@Gallo, I haven't bought these devices yet because I saw on Mikrotik
forums lots of people having trouble with these devices even at 50m
LOS. But I'm still curious and will get them sometime in the future an
test them.
On Tue, Apr 3, 2018 at 8:53 PM, G Gallo <ggallo102(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Super awesome proposal Max, I'm happy to help
facilitate the development of
these prototypes as involves People's Open. I can help make sure the sudowrt
firmware works with whatever antennas you end up settling on (I have a
Nanostation Loco M2 I've been meaning to test).
Also something that may be of interest to you is the Mikrotik Wireless Wire,
https://mikrotik.com/product/wireless_wire
They are supposed to be very easy to setup, come in pairs, are relatively
cheap ($200 for a pair). While they are meant for short throws (~100m LOS)
and operate in the 60GHz spectrum, they do provide a full duplex gigabit
wireless link. Might be something to consider depending on how you plan on
deploying these repeaters. I've been meaning to order a few to see how
People's Open could use them.
-grant
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 6:28 PM, Max Schwartz <maxschwartziv(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Ok, here's what I'm thinking. The solar repeater would be more of a
temporary (months?) solution for people outside of the mesh's radius that
want in. It would be a link that mostly works during the day and sunny ones
at that. The people in the repeater chain would receive mesh internet for
some period if they want a permanent solution they can contact peoplesopen
and integrate with a home node. If not, we can always move the repeater
chain and try a new mesh tendril.
A solar repeater would be much quicker to set up, could be done with a 2
person team, and you wouldn't need to interact with the homeowner or go
inside their house. Possibly as short a setup as 30min vs 2hrs to to
integrate a home node.
Nanostation Loco M2 averages 3-4W? That's great news! The panel probably
needs to stay fixed at the 20W size, anything larger than that seems too
expensive and cumbersome to carry and mount without additional hardware.
Definitely need remote voltage and current monitoring Valent, good call.
Are we sure that MPPT is the way to go over PWM? Cost reasons number 1, but
I was worried that the additional micro-controller would eat the power that
was gained in increased efficiency for a low power application like this.
Jenny, I'm putting 2 of these together as a proof of concept, if the mesh
wants to cover expenses I won't say no :)
On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 11:58 AM, Valent Turkovic
<valent(a)otvorenamreza.org> wrote:
_______________________________________________
mesh mailing list
mesh(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/mesh
Max consider also adding INA219 voltage and current monitor. You can
connect it via i2c bus to most OpenWrt devices, or add additional ESP8266
that will use INA219 chip to monitor current and voltage.
If you don't have some kind of remote monitoring you will regret it
later, I talk from experience :)
Also using Grafana is great for this, you can see one of our latest
setups:
https://imgur.com/a/Z9qhk
Cheers,
Valent.
--
Max Schwartz
maxschwartziv(a)gmail.com
314-578-4503
_______________________________________________
mesh mailing list
mesh(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/mesh
2711
days inactive
2712
days old
8 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
G Gallo -
Jenny Ryan -
Max Schwartz -
Shaddi Hasan -
Valent Turkovic