15 Jan
2017
15 Jan
'17
12:09 p.m.
Hi Jake / access control folks -
So now that our front door is publicly labelled as accessible, we need to
install an automatic door opener & remote button (kickplate & hand-height
or a long bar) to make it legal.
Reason I bring this up to you guys is, the opener system will need to
integrate into our existing/future access control somehow. The quote I got
is $2800 (50% parts, 50% labor) for a package including the Open Sesame
Model 233 (brochure
<http://www.opensesamedoor.com/index_htm_files/open_sesame_brochure.pdf>, spec
sheet <http://www.opensesamedoor.com/index_htm_files/specs_model233.pdf>),
made in San Leandro.
Also, some of us met last week re: sketching out Omni's accessibility plan,
and Yar suggested this might be a good time to also implement RFID system
for the front door, if that was possible? In part because, proximity to an
RFID fob is more accessible than a card swipe which (after thinking about
it) I realized requires a pincing motion that is likely not ADA... because
of the excessive door opening pressure and iffy slope on the front landing,
we need an RFID & auto-opener.
So -- I'm not sure if any more work has been done on the RFID systems I put
in sudo a little while ago (stashed in under-stair storage area), might it
be possible to integrate these into the door opener? I note in the brochure
they offer a keypad access option - perhaps an opportunity for 2-factor
authentication like Marc had talked about? Anyhow what do you guys think?
I apologize for not helping y'all more with a better access control system
(helping spaces post-ghostship consumed my bandwidth), but as there is now
renewed pressure I want to help as I can. Would installing a trial
RFID/throw on the Omni Office for example still be helpful towards getting
this nailed down? Lmk
Fwiw - I see the opener as pressing at this point not just 'cause its long
overdue, but because every day our front door is labelled as accessible
when it's technically not, is actually a not-insignificant liability issue
(accessibility lawsuit). Plus of course, we are still under scrutiny by the
city, nimby neighbors trying to call us out for bogus reasons, etc etc. And
per building code the front door must be made fully accessible before any
other accessibility work starts on the rest of the building - at some point
an inspector's gonna notice since they all go through that door..anyhow.
Let me know how myself & those of us working on accessibility might be able
to help -
Best,
David
15 Jan
15 Jan
11:46 p.m.
i brought in a wheelchair motor a while ago that I think could be made into a
power door-opener pretty well.
I can work on a proof-of-concept for that and then be able to show you what I
mean, and then we can see if it will be good enough for our needs as opposed to
spending $2800 on a "proper" door opener.
as for the RFID cards, Alex and I have been working on implementing the card
reader thing for a little while and I think I can add it to the front door
pretty relatively easily.., and I guess i'll do that first, rather than trying
to do a storage closet first?
as always, if anyone wants to participate in this process they should
definitely jump in, otherwise it's subject to my chaotic schedule.
technical questions about making this happen should be sent to the access list
and possibly the sudoroom list, but probably not the building list as it will
be a major distraction if we get into the weeds of microcontroller boards and
door server code...
also, yes I do have the box of RFID stuff you ordered and i've been working on
it~
-jake
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017, David Keenan wrote:
Hi Jake / access control folks -
So now that our front door is publicly labelled as accessible, we need to
install an automatic door opener & remote button (kickplate & hand-height
or a long bar) to make it legal.
Reason I bring this up to you guys is, the opener system will need to
integrate into our existing/future access control somehow. The quote I got
is $2800 (50% parts, 50% labor) for a package including the Open Sesame
Model 233 (brochure
<http://www.opensesamedoor.com/index_htm_files/open_sesame_brochure.pdf>, spec
sheet <http://www.opensesamedoor.com/index_htm_files/specs_model233.pdf>),
made in San Leandro.
Also, some of us met last week re: sketching out Omni's accessibility plan,
and Yar suggested this might be a good time to also implement RFID system
for the front door, if that was possible? In part because, proximity to an
RFID fob is more accessible than a card swipe which (after thinking about
it) I realized requires a pincing motion that is likely not ADA... because
of the excessive door opening pressure and iffy slope on the front landing,
we need an RFID & auto-opener.
So -- I'm not sure if any more work has been done on the RFID systems I put
in sudo a little while ago (stashed in under-stair storage area), might it
be possible to integrate these into the door opener? I note in the brochure
they offer a keypad access option - perhaps an opportunity for 2-factor
authentication like Marc had talked about? Anyhow what do you guys think?
I apologize for not helping y'all more with a better access control system
(helping spaces post-ghostship consumed my bandwidth), but as there is now
renewed pressure I want to help as I can. Would installing a trial
RFID/throw on the Omni Office for example still be helpful towards getting
this nailed down? Lmk
Fwiw - I see the opener as pressing at this point not just 'cause its long
overdue, but because every day our front door is labelled as accessible
when it's technically not, is actually a not-insignificant liability issue
(accessibility lawsuit). Plus of course, we are still under scrutiny by the
city, nimby neighbors trying to call us out for bogus reasons, etc etc. And
per building code the front door must be made fully accessible before any
other accessibility work starts on the rest of the building - at some point
an inspector's gonna notice since they all go through that door..anyhow.
Let me know how myself & those of us working on accessibility might be able
to help -
Best,
David
16 Jan
16 Jan
12:20 a.m.
If you are working on RFID cards any possibility that the entrance to
sudo/ccl could get a card reader? Been wanting access control for
awhile.
On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 11:46 PM, Jake <jake(a)spaz.org> wrote:
i brought in a wheelchair motor a while ago that I
think could be made into
a
power door-opener pretty well.
I can work on a proof-of-concept for that and then be able to show you what
I
mean, and then we can see if it will be good enough for our needs as opposed
to
spending $2800 on a "proper" door opener.
as for the RFID cards, Alex and I have been working on implementing the card
reader thing for a little while and I think I can add it to the front door
pretty relatively easily.., and I guess i'll do that first, rather than
trying
to do a storage closet first?
as always, if anyone wants to participate in this process they should
definitely jump in, otherwise it's subject to my chaotic schedule.
technical questions about making this happen should be sent to the access
list
and possibly the sudoroom list, but probably not the building list as it
will
be a major distraction if we get into the weeds of microcontroller boards
and
door server code...
also, yes I do have the box of RFID stuff you ordered and i've been working
on
it~
-jake
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017, David Keenan wrote:
Hi Jake / access control folks -
So now that our front door is publicly labelled as accessible, we need to
install an automatic door opener & remote button (kickplate & hand-height
or a long bar) to make it legal.
Reason I bring this up to you guys is, the opener system will need to
integrate into our existing/future access control somehow. The quote I got
is $2800 (50% parts, 50% labor) for a package including the Open Sesame
Model 233 (brochure
<http://www.opensesamedoor.com/index_htm_files/open_sesame_brochure.pdf>,
spec
sheet <http://www.opensesamedoor.com/index_htm_files/specs_model233.pdf>),
made in San Leandro.
Also, some of us met last week re: sketching out Omni's accessibility
plan,
and Yar suggested this might be a good time to also implement RFID system
for the front door, if that was possible? In part because, proximity to an
RFID fob is more accessible than a card swipe which (after thinking about
it) I realized requires a pincing motion that is likely not ADA... because
of the excessive door opening pressure and iffy slope on the front
landing,
we need an RFID & auto-opener.
So -- I'm not sure if any more work has been done on the RFID systems I
put
in sudo a little while ago (stashed in under-stair storage area), might it
be possible to integrate these into the door opener? I note in the
brochure
they offer a keypad access option - perhaps an opportunity for 2-factor
authentication like Marc had talked about? Anyhow what do you guys think?
I apologize for not helping y'all more with a better access control system
(helping spaces post-ghostship consumed my bandwidth), but as there is now
renewed pressure I want to help as I can. Would installing a trial
RFID/throw on the Omni Office for example still be helpful towards getting
this nailed down? Lmk
Fwiw - I see the opener as pressing at this point not just 'cause its long
overdue, but because every day our front door is labelled as accessible
when it's technically not, is actually a not-insignificant liability issue
(accessibility lawsuit). Plus of course, we are still under scrutiny by
the
city, nimby neighbors trying to call us out for bogus reasons, etc etc.
And
per building code the front door must be made fully accessible before any
other accessibility work starts on the rest of the building - at some
point
an inspector's gonna notice since they all go through that door..anyhow.
Let me know how myself & those of us working on accessibility might be
able
to help -
Best,
David
12:15 p.m.
Awesome jake! Thanks for writing back and for all you and the access group
are doing. Roger that re: not cc'ing building list -- after this message,
I'll un-cc that list.
Yes, IMO to save time, RFID'ing the front door directly at this point is
probably worth doing, rather than piloting a mechanism first in the Omni
Office or similar -- but I'd leave that to your/access group's best
judgement.
I remember hearing about that wheelchair motor -- if it's the same one,
last I heard Robb had wanted to use it to raise/lower a projection screen
for the stage..? So I didn't think of it for this project, but if we can
use it and save ourselves some money, that's great!
I realize you may have already considered this aspect but as a DIY opener
will also need to comply with code requirements, do you think you can
design a system measurably compliant with:
- opening / closing force (<5lb) and speed (max. *N* seconds to close)
requirements throughout the swing, during automatic operation and manual
operation per ANSI/BHMA A156.19 for low-energy-operated doors, ICC A117.1,
ADA and whatever may be found in CBC?
- req'd UPS / backup battery power for opener, for *N* many operations
(need to look it up)
- compliant location of upper and lower door actuators (buttons), assume
this will be no issue
If it's helpful, here is a decent article I found that glosses the subject
of codes for low-energy openers:
http://www.constructionspecifier.com/understanding-new-accessibility-requir…
<http://www.constructionspecifier.com/understanding-new-accessibility-requirements-for-doors/>
Given the above, and I realize I only now just brought this up to you, but
I guess my only concern about any DIY implementation is, if you / access
group has the time to implement it relatively soon..? E.g., do you think it
might be possible to complete in the next 2-3 weeks or so..?
I realize perhaps that is an unfair question to ask before you've really
started hacking on it, but I'm also trying to be realistic and pragmatic
wrt to how busy everyone is and the understandably extended timelines of
volunteer labor in general that comprises the bulk of omni efforts --
If after reviewing the door req's, you think a DIY system is doable in the
next 2-3 wks, let me know how / when I can help hack on this and I will
follow up with you and access control group directly -- and perhaps we can
set a date to meet up about it?
Best,
David
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:20 AM, Maureen Muldavin <muldavin.m(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
If you are working on RFID cards any possibility that
the entrance to
sudo/ccl could get a card reader? Been wanting access control for
awhile.
On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 11:46 PM, Jake <jake(a)spaz.org> wrote:
system
i brought in a wheelchair motor a while ago that
I think could be made
into
a
power door-opener pretty well.
I can work on a proof-of-concept for that and then be able to show you
what
I
mean, and then we can see if it will be good enough for our needs as
opposed
to
spending $2800 on a "proper" door opener.
as for the RFID cards, Alex and I have been working on implementing the
card
reader thing for a little while and I think I can
add it to the front
door
pretty relatively easily.., and I guess i'll
do that first, rather than
trying
to do a storage closet first?
as always, if anyone wants to participate in this process they should
definitely jump in, otherwise it's subject to my chaotic schedule.
technical questions about making this happen should be sent to the access
list
and possibly the sudoroom list, but probably not the building list as it
will
be a major distraction if we get into the weeds of microcontroller boards
and
door server code...
also, yes I do have the box of RFID stuff you ordered and i've been
working
on
it~
-jake
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017, David Keenan wrote:
> Hi Jake / access control folks -
>
> So now that our front door is publicly labelled as accessible, we need
to
> install an automatic door opener & remote
button (kickplate &
hand-height
> or a long bar) to make it legal.
>
> Reason I bring this up to you guys is, the opener system will need to
> integrate into our existing/future access control somehow. The quote I
got
is $2800
(50% parts, 50% labor) for a package including the Open Sesame
Model 233 (brochure
<http://www.opensesamedoor.com/index_htm_files/open_sesame_brochure.pdf
,
spec
sheet <http://www.opensesamedoor.com/index_htm_files/specs_model233.pdf
),
>
> made in San Leandro.
>
> Also, some of us met last week re: sketching out Omni's accessibility
> plan,
> and Yar suggested this might be a good time to also implement RFID > for the front door, if that was possible? In
part because, proximity to
an
> RFID fob is more accessible than a card swipe
which (after thinking
about
> it) I realized requires a pincing motion that
is likely not ADA...
because
> of the excessive door opening pressure and
iffy slope on the front
> landing,
> we need an RFID & auto-opener.
>
> So -- I'm not sure if any more work has been done on the RFID systems I
> put
> in sudo a little while ago (stashed in under-stair storage area), might
it
> be possible to integrate these into the door
opener? I note in the
> brochure
> they offer a keypad access option - perhaps an opportunity for 2-factor
> authentication like Marc had talked about? Anyhow what do you guys
think?
>
> I apologize for not helping y'all more with a better access control
system
> (helping spaces post-ghostship consumed my
bandwidth), but as there is
now
> renewed pressure I want to help as I can.
Would installing a trial
> RFID/throw on the Omni Office for example still be helpful towards
getting
> this nailed down? Lmk
>
> Fwiw - I see the opener as pressing at this point not just 'cause its
long
> overdue, but because every day our front door
is labelled as accessible
> when it's technically not, is actually a not-insignificant liability
issue
> (accessibility lawsuit). Plus of course, we
are still under scrutiny by
> the
> city, nimby neighbors trying to call us out for bogus reasons, etc etc.
> And
> per building code the front door must be made fully accessible before
any
other
accessibility work starts on the rest of the building - at some
point
an inspector's gonna notice since they all go through that door..anyhow.
Let me know how myself & those of us working on accessibility might be
able
to help -
Best,
David
12:23 p.m.
Ps. If after reviewing opener requirements, a DIY system seemed a bridge
too far for whatever reason, a fallback middle ground may be to purchase
the mechanism directly from the manufacturer if we can and self-install,
provided Jake / access group might be willing to do so. This would roughly
halve the price (~$1500, rather than $2800)... I don't know how that would
impact the warranty, and I'm sure would not include any post-install
maintenance/service but it's worth thinking considering as a fallback -
Best,
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:15 PM, David Keenan <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Awesome jake! Thanks for writing back and for all you
and the access group
are doing. Roger that re: not cc'ing building list -- after this message,
I'll un-cc that list.
Yes, IMO to save time, RFID'ing the front door directly at this point is
probably worth doing, rather than piloting a mechanism first in the Omni
Office or similar -- but I'd leave that to your/access group's best
judgement.
I remember hearing about that wheelchair motor -- if it's the same one,
last I heard Robb had wanted to use it to raise/lower a projection screen
for the stage..? So I didn't think of it for this project, but if we can
use it and save ourselves some money, that's great!
I realize you may have already considered this aspect but as a DIY opener
will also need to comply with code requirements, do you think you can
design a system measurably compliant with:
- opening / closing force (<5lb) and speed (max. *N* seconds to close)
requirements throughout the swing, during automatic operation and manual
operation per ANSI/BHMA A156.19 for low-energy-operated doors, ICC A117.1,
ADA and whatever may be found in CBC?
- req'd UPS / backup battery power for opener, for *N* many operations
(need to look it up)
- compliant location of upper and lower door actuators (buttons), assume
this will be no issue
If it's helpful, here is a decent article I found that glosses the subject
of codes for low-energy openers:
http://www.constructionspecifier.com/understanding-new-
accessibility-requirements-for-doors/
<http://www.constructionspecifier.com/understanding-new-accessibility-requirements-for-doors/>
Given the above, and I realize I only now just brought this up to you, but
I guess my only concern about any DIY implementation is, if you / access
group has the time to implement it relatively soon..? E.g., do you think it
might be possible to complete in the next 2-3 weeks or so..?
I realize perhaps that is an unfair question to ask before you've really
started hacking on it, but I'm also trying to be realistic and pragmatic
wrt to how busy everyone is and the understandably extended timelines of
volunteer labor in general that comprises the bulk of omni efforts --
If after reviewing the door req's, you think a DIY system is doable in the
next 2-3 wks, let me know how / when I can help hack on this and I will
follow up with you and access control group directly -- and perhaps we can
set a date to meet up about it?
Best,
David
On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 12:20 AM, Maureen Muldavin <muldavin.m(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
If you are working on RFID cards any possibility
that the entrance to
sudo/ccl could get a card reader? Been wanting access control for
awhile.
On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 11:46 PM, Jake <jake(a)spaz.org> wrote:
i brought in a wheelchair motor a while ago that
I think could be made
into
a
power door-opener pretty well.
I can work on a proof-of-concept for that and then be able to show you
what
I
mean, and then we can see if it will be good enough for our needs as
opposed
to
spending $2800 on a "proper" door opener.
as for the RFID cards, Alex and I have been working on implementing the
card
reader thing for a little while and I think I can
add it to the front
door
pretty relatively easily.., and I guess i'll
do that first, rather than
trying
to do a storage closet first?
as always, if anyone wants to participate in this process they should
definitely jump in, otherwise it's subject to my chaotic schedule.
technical questions about making this happen should be sent to the
access
list
and possibly the sudoroom list, but probably not the building list as it
will
be a major distraction if we get into the weeds of microcontroller
boards
and
door server code...
also, yes I do have the box of RFID stuff you ordered and i've been
working
on
it~
-jake
On Sun, 15 Jan 2017, David Keenan wrote:
> Hi Jake / access control folks -
>
> So now that our front door is publicly labelled as accessible, we need
to
> install an automatic door opener & remote
button (kickplate &
hand-height
> or a long bar) to make it legal.
>
> Reason I bring this up to you guys is, the opener system will need to
> integrate into our existing/future access control somehow. The quote I
got
> is $2800 (50% parts, 50% labor) for a package
including the Open Sesame
> Model 233 (brochure
> <http://www.opensesamedoor.com/index_htm_files/open_sesame_
brochure.pdf>,
> spec
> sheet <http://www.opensesamedoor.com/index_htm_files/specs_model23
3.pdf>),
>
> made in San Leandro.
>
> Also, some of us met last week re: sketching out Omni's accessibility
> plan,
> and Yar suggested this might be a good time to also implement RFID
system
> for the front door, if that was possible? In
part because, proximity
to an
> RFID fob is more accessible than a card swipe
which (after thinking
about
> it) I realized requires a pincing motion that
is likely not ADA...
because
> of the excessive door opening pressure and
iffy slope on the front
> landing,
> we need an RFID & auto-opener.
>
> So -- I'm not sure if any more work has been done on the RFID systems I
> put
> in sudo a little while ago (stashed in under-stair storage area),
might it
> be possible to integrate these into the door
opener? I note in the
> brochure
> they offer a keypad access option - perhaps an opportunity for 2-factor
> authentication like Marc had talked about? Anyhow what do you guys
think?
>
> I apologize for not helping y'all more with a better access control
system
> (helping spaces post-ghostship consumed my
bandwidth), but as there is
now
> renewed pressure I want to help as I can.
Would installing a trial
> RFID/throw on the Omni Office for example still be helpful towards
getting
> this nailed down? Lmk
>
> Fwiw - I see the opener as pressing at this point not just 'cause its
long
> overdue, but because every day our front door
is labelled as accessible
> when it's technically not, is actually a not-insignificant liability
issue
> (accessibility lawsuit). Plus of course, we
are still under scrutiny by
> the
> city, nimby neighbors trying to call us out for bogus reasons, etc etc.
> And
> per building code the front door must be made fully accessible before
any
> other accessibility work starts on the rest
of the building - at some
> point
> an inspector's gonna notice since they all go through that
door..anyhow.
Let me know how myself & those of us working on accessibility might be
able
to help -
Best,
David
2665
days inactive
2666
days old
4 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
-
David Keenan -
Jake -
Maureen Muldavin