10 Apr
2015
10 Apr
'15
5:23 p.m.
Today April and I spoke with Tim and Chris about our
problems with obtaining an uplink. The tl;dr version is that
we have two possibilities for circumventing the last-mile
shakedown: BART and radio links.
You probably don't need to read the rest. :)
First off, the prices quoted to us for a 1Gbit were fairly
normal. They are due to the last-mile being neither competitive
nor transparent. Zayo may still be an option, but getting the
building wired for fiber may be a huge ordeal and it still might
be very expensive.
The only workaround may be to find an alternative, cheaper
route to a data center; IP transit is cheap these days and
getting cheaper. There are two sources of problems
here: transport (the connection from our network to a
data center) and data center internals.
The data centers we have available to us are: "365 Main St."
in downtown Oakland, Evocative in Emeryville, and then
things further away such as Hurricane Electric. Unfortunately,
the AT&T CO near the Omni is probably not useful to us.
There's a whole lot of cost and complexity involved in getting into a
data center and it would be nice to avoid paying for co-location.
Transport is tricky. We learned that BART can provide transport
(not just dark fiber leases), but we don't know where we can
connect to them physically, so an additional radio or fiber link
may be necessary. Don't know how much it'll cost.
The other intriguing option is a two-hop radio link (up to the
hills and then down to a data center). We discussed using
licensed bands for this, and it seems feasible with some
perseverance. Again, don't know much it'll cost.
We also discussed my idea of attaching fiber to poles, which
seems to be feasible in theory but probably prohibitively expensive
for us.
Alex
12 Apr
12 Apr
1:37 p.m.
Thanks for updating us so quickly with this! I'm just going to ponder out
loud for a little seeing as how we seem to be a bit stuck in the
brainstorming phase of this.
The other intriguing option is a two-hop radio link (up to the
hills and then down to a data center). We discussed
using
licensed bands for this, and it seems feasible with some
perseverance. Again, don't know much it'll cost.
Do we think that a data center might allow us to put something on their
roof? FR got away with it for a while with L3 in Mendocino, but it seems
like we'll be likely interfacing with a much busier datacenter
Transport is tricky. We learned that BART can provide transport
(not just dark fiber leases), but we don't know
where we can
connect to them physically, so an additional radio or fiber link
may be necessary. Don't know how much it'll cost.
Well we are VERY close to the BART line, so in that way we're pretty lucky
:-) Any idea how we follow up with that? Did they suggest any places to
start?
Ok and just one more idea: We're paying around $100/month for our
bi-directional 100mbps connection at omni. That connection regularly gets
used by dozens of people. Would it be feasible to put out a call for people
who can be served by LMI and/or who might have alternative access to 100mps
(symmetric-ish)? We could figure out a way to at least partially subsidize
their connection prices. At that point, we're paying $1/mbps and we'd have
decentralized locations which could potentially improve our range....
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Alexander Papazoglou <papazoga(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Today April and I spoke with Tim and Chris about our
> problems with obtaining an uplink. The tl;dr version is that
> we have two possibilities for circumventing the last-mile
> shakedown: BART and radio links.
>
> You probably don't need to read the rest. :)
>
> First off, the prices quoted to us for a 1Gbit were fairly
> normal. They are due to the last-mile being neither competitive
> nor transparent. Zayo may still be an option, but getting the
> building wired for fiber may be a huge ordeal and it still might
> be very expensive.
>
> The only workaround may be to find an alternative, cheaper
> route to a data center; IP transit is cheap these days and
> getting cheaper. There are two sources of problems
> here: transport (the connection from our network to a
> data center) and data center internals.
>
> The data centers we have available to us are: "365 Main St."
> in downtown Oakland, Evocative in Emeryville, and then
> things further away such as Hurricane Electric. Unfortunately,
> the AT&T CO near the Omni is probably not useful to us.
> There's a whole lot of cost and complexity involved in getting into a
> data center and it would be nice to avoid paying for co-location.
>
> Transport is tricky. We learned that BART can provide transport
(not just dark fiber leases), but we don't know
where we can
connect to them physically, so an additional radio or fiber link
may be necessary. Don't know how much it'll cost.
>
> The other intriguing option is a two-hop radio link (up to the
hills and then down to a data center). We discussed
using
licensed bands for this, and it seems feasible with some
perseverance. Again, don't know much it'll cost.
>
> We also discussed my idea of attaching fiber to poles, which
> seems to be feasible in theory but probably prohibitively expensive
> for us.
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mesh-dev mailing list
> mesh-dev(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh-dev
>
>
13 Apr
13 Apr
2:32 p.m.
On 4/12/15 1:37 PM, max b wrote:
Thanks for updating us so quickly with this! I'm
just going to ponder
out loud for a little seeing as how we seem to be a bit stuck in the
brainstorming phase of this.
The other intriguing option is a two-hop radio link (up to the
hills and then down to a data center). We discussed using
licensed bands for this, and it seems feasible with some
perseverance. Again, don't know much it'll cost.
Do we think that a data center might allow us to put something on
their roof? FR got away with it for a while with L3 in Mendocino, but
it seems like we'll be likely interfacing with a much busier datacenter
Yes for sure. But we'd have to rent out the roof space additionally and
likely provide all of our own equipment.
Transport is tricky. We learned that BART can provide transport
(not just dark fiber leases), but we don't know where we can
connect to them physically, so an additional radio or fiber link
may be necessary. Don't know how much it'll cost.
Well we are VERY close to the BART line, so in that way we're pretty
lucky :-) Any idea how we follow up with that? Did they suggest any
places to start?
Yeah, they said they'd be happy to send along an email
introduction when
we're ready to inquire.
Ok and just one more idea: We're paying around $100/month for our
bi-directional 100mbps connection at omni. That connection regularly
gets used by dozens of people. Would it be feasible to put out a call
for people who can be served by LMI and/or who might have alternative
access to 100mps (symmetric-ish)? We could figure out a way to at
least partially subsidize their connection prices. At that point,
we're paying $1/mbps and we'd have decentralized locations which could
potentially improve our range....
Sounds cool ! Others have thoughts?
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Alexander Papazoglou
<papazoga(a)gmail.com <mailto:papazoga@gmail.com>> wrote:
Today April and I spoke with Tim and Chris about our
problems with obtaining an uplink. The tl;dr version is that
we have two possibilities for circumventing the last-mile
shakedown: BART and radio links.
You probably don't need to read the rest. :)
First off, the prices quoted to us for a 1Gbit were fairly
normal. They are due to the last-mile being neither competitive
nor transparent. Zayo may still be an option, but getting the
building wired for fiber may be a huge ordeal and it still might
be very expensive.
The only workaround may be to find an alternative, cheaper
route to a data center; IP transit is cheap these days and
getting cheaper. There are two sources of problems
here: transport (the connection from our network to a
data center) and data center internals.
The data centers we have available to us are: "365 Main St."
in downtown Oakland, Evocative in Emeryville, and then
things further away such as Hurricane Electric. Unfortunately,
the AT&T CO near the Omni is probably not useful to us.
There's a whole lot of cost and complexity involved in getting into a
data center and it would be nice to avoid paying for co-location.
Transport is tricky. We learned that BART can provide transport
(not just dark fiber leases), but we don't know where we can
connect to them physically, so an additional radio or fiber link
may be necessary. Don't know how much it'll cost.
The other intriguing option is a two-hop radio link (up to the
hills and then down to a data center). We discussed using
licensed bands for this, and it seems feasible with some
perseverance. Again, don't know much it'll cost.
We also discussed my idea of attaching fiber to poles, which
seems to be feasible in theory but probably prohibitively expensive
for us.
Alex
_______________________________________________
mesh-dev mailing list
mesh-dev(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:mesh-dev@lists.sudoroom.org>
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh-dev
_______________________________________________
mesh-dev mailing list
mesh-dev(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh-dev
--
0x54FC570B
4:48 p.m.
On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 1:37 PM, max b <maxb.personal(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for updating us so quickly with this! I'm
just going to ponder out
loud for a little seeing as how we seem to be a bit stuck in the
brainstorming phase of this.
The other intriguing option is a two-hop radio link (up to the
The district 4 director of BART actually came by old sudo room and Matt and
myself sat down with him for a while. I talked to him again about the mesh
at the Temescal street fair this past July and he said he'd introduce us to
the person responsible for the BART fiber when we were ready. Here's his
info:
http://www.bart.gov/about/bod/bodMembersDetail_04
I might have his private number somewhere in case you can't reach him on
that number.
hills and then down to a data center). We
discussed using
licensed bands for this, and it seems feasible with some
perseverance. Again, don't know much it'll cost.
Do we think that a data center might allow us to put something on their
roof? FR got away with it for a while with L3 in Mendocino, but it seems
like we'll be likely interfacing with a much busier datacenter
Transport is tricky. We learned that BART can provide transport
(not just dark fiber leases), but we don't
know where we can
connect to them physically, so an additional radio or fiber link
may be necessary. Don't know how much it'll cost.
Well we are VERY close to the BART line, so in that way we're pretty lucky
:-) Any idea how we follow up with that? Did they suggest any places to
start?
Ok and just one more idea: We're paying around $100/month for our
bi-directional 100mbps connection at omni. That connection regularly gets
used by dozens of people. Would it be feasible to put out a call for people
who can be served by LMI and/or who might have alternative access to 100mps
(symmetric-ish)? We could figure out a way to at least partially subsidize
their connection prices. At that point, we're paying $1/mbps and we'd have
decentralized locations which could potentially improve our range....
That idea sounds like it has potential, though we're not really getting 100
mbps (might be partially due to our in-house wiring) and especially not
upstream. Finding people who are super close to the dslams and have tall
rooftops might work though.
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Alexander Papazoglou <papazoga(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Today April and I spoke with Tim and Chris about
our
problems with obtaining an uplink. The tl;dr version is that
we have two possibilities for circumventing the last-mile
shakedown: BART and radio links.
You probably don't need to read the rest. :)
First off, the prices quoted to us for a 1Gbit were fairly
normal. They are due to the last-mile being neither competitive
nor transparent. Zayo may still be an option, but getting the
building wired for fiber may be a huge ordeal and it still might
be very expensive.
The only workaround may be to find an alternative, cheaper
route to a data center; IP transit is cheap these days and
getting cheaper. There are two sources of problems
here: transport (the connection from our network to a
data center) and data center internals.
The data centers we have available to us are: "365 Main St."
in downtown Oakland, Evocative in Emeryville, and then
things further away such as Hurricane Electric. Unfortunately,
the AT&T CO near the Omni is probably not useful to us.
There's a whole lot of cost and complexity involved in getting into a
data center and it would be nice to avoid paying for co-location.
Transport is tricky. We learned that BART can provide transport
(not just dark fiber leases), but we don't know where we can
connect to them physically, so an additional radio or fiber link
may be necessary. Don't know how much it'll cost.
The other intriguing option is a two-hop radio link (up to the
hills and then down to a data center). We discussed using
licensed bands for this, and it seems feasible with some
perseverance. Again, don't know much it'll cost.
We also discussed my idea of attaching fiber to poles, which
seems to be feasible in theory but probably prohibitively expensive
for us.
Alex
_______________________________________________
mesh-dev mailing list
mesh-dev(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh-dev
_______________________________________________
mesh-dev mailing list
mesh-dev(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh-dev
9:18 p.m.
That idea sounds like it has potential, though we're not really getting
100 mbps (might be partially due to our in-house wiring) and especially not
upstream.
I thought that we were getting nearly 100mbps symmetric from the modem....
How are we testing this?
On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
On Sun, Apr 12, 2015 at 1:37 PM, max b <maxb.personal(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for updating us so quickly with this!
I'm just going to ponder out
loud for a little seeing as how we seem to be a bit stuck in the
brainstorming phase of this.
The other intriguing option is a two-hop radio link (up to the
The district 4 director of BART actually came by old sudo room and Matt
and myself sat down with him for a while. I talked to him again about the
mesh at the Temescal street fair this past July and he said he'd introduce
us to the person responsible for the BART fiber when we were ready. Here's
his info:
http://www.bart.gov/about/bod/bodMembersDetail_04
I might have his private number somewhere in case you can't reach him on
that number.
hills and then down to a data center). We
discussed using
licensed bands for this, and it seems feasible with some
perseverance. Again, don't know much it'll cost.
Do we think that a data center might allow us to put something on their
roof? FR got away with it for a while with L3 in Mendocino, but it seems
like we'll be likely interfacing with a much busier datacenter
Transport is tricky. We learned that BART can provide transport
(not just dark fiber leases), but we don't
know where we can
connect to them physically, so an additional radio or fiber link
may be necessary. Don't know how much it'll cost.
Well we are VERY close to the BART line, so in that way we're pretty
lucky :-) Any idea how we follow up with that? Did they suggest any places
to start?
Ok and just one more idea: We're paying around $100/month for our
bi-directional 100mbps connection at omni. That connection regularly gets
used by dozens of people. Would it be feasible to put out a call for people
who can be served by LMI and/or who might have alternative access to 100mps
(symmetric-ish)? We could figure out a way to at least partially subsidize
their connection prices. At that point, we're paying $1/mbps and we'd have
decentralized locations which could potentially improve our range....
That idea sounds like it has potential, though we're not really getting
100 mbps (might be partially due to our in-house wiring) and especially not
upstream. Finding people who are super close to the dslams and have tall
rooftops might work though.
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Alexander Papazoglou <papazoga(a)gmail.com
wrote:
Today April and I spoke with Tim and Chris about
our
problems with obtaining an uplink. The tl;dr version is that
we have two possibilities for circumventing the last-mile
shakedown: BART and radio links.
You probably don't need to read the rest. :)
First off, the prices quoted to us for a 1Gbit were fairly
normal. They are due to the last-mile being neither competitive
nor transparent. Zayo may still be an option, but getting the
building wired for fiber may be a huge ordeal and it still might
be very expensive.
The only workaround may be to find an alternative, cheaper
route to a data center; IP transit is cheap these days and
getting cheaper. There are two sources of problems
here: transport (the connection from our network to a
data center) and data center internals.
The data centers we have available to us are: "365 Main St."
in downtown Oakland, Evocative in Emeryville, and then
things further away such as Hurricane Electric. Unfortunately,
the AT&T CO near the Omni is probably not useful to us.
There's a whole lot of cost and complexity involved in getting into a
data center and it would be nice to avoid paying for co-location.
Transport is tricky. We learned that BART can provide transport
(not just dark fiber leases), but we don't know where we can
connect to them physically, so an additional radio or fiber link
may be necessary. Don't know how much it'll cost.
The other intriguing option is a two-hop radio link (up to the
hills and then down to a data center). We discussed using
licensed bands for this, and it seems feasible with some
perseverance. Again, don't know much it'll cost.
We also discussed my idea of attaching fiber to poles, which
seems to be feasible in theory but probably prohibitively expensive
for us.
Alex
_______________________________________________
mesh-dev mailing list
mesh-dev(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh-dev
_______________________________________________
mesh-dev mailing list
mesh-dev(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh-dev
3544
days inactive
3547
days old
4 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Alexander Papazoglou -
April Glaser -
Marc Juul -
max b