What was the outcome of the meeting?
Carolyn
________________________________
From: Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>
To: Carolyn Lunger <carolyn.lunger(a)yahoo.com>
Cc: "sudo-kids(a)lists.sudoroom.org" <sudo-kids(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Sudo-kids] From our landlord & future of sudo kids
Hi Carolyn,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the future of sudo kids.
Please don't consider yourself "responsible" - ultimately George and Laurie
are responsible as they are the ones who have said that no kids are to be allowed in the
space at this time. Having a lot of people is a good problem to have, even if it's one
that we were not fully prepared to meet.
- Marina
On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 5:48 PM, Carolyn Lunger <carolyn.lunger(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi all:
I cannot come tonight to the meeting for obvious reasons. My husband is working late
tonight and I have the kids with me. I do want to add if you tell me what to do I will do
it in terms of getting Sudo Kids room back on its feet as I feel somewhat responsible in
the sense that I did invite quite a bit of people and heard from many people that they
were interested.
Carolyn
________________________________
From: Carolyn Lunger <carolyn.lunger(a)yahoo.com>
To: Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>om>; "sudo-kids(a)lists.sudoroom.org"
<sudo-kids(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Sudo-kids] From our landlord & future of sudo kids
Hi all:
Giving George's recent rant and the effect it had on my daughter and all these emails
from the co-owner (the whole rant about recycling/garbage, access to the public and she is
still stuck on the idea that it is childcare) and finding out there is no insurance, I
cannot say we will be able to return to Sudo Kids and I would not feel comfortable telling
others about it unless:
1) Sudo Kids is held in a different location
2) Has some kind of liability or insurance
3) Strict rules that parents need to be involved and present at the facility
In that note, I do believe that Hackerscouts has a really good setup on how to run things
for kids and working collaboratively would be a good idea to start with so that Sudo Kids
won't run into future problems. I am pretty busy and not a full member of Sudo Room
but willing to help Sudo Kids get back and running as I believe that this is a good thing
for the kids and the community. As you can see with the amount of kids that showed up the
last couple of times that this kind of community/environment/activity is wanted.
There was yet another open lab at Hackerscouts on Sunday and it was PACKED with people. We
could barely move around. I am not saying I want it exactly like Hackerscouts as my
children told me that the part they like about Sudo Kids was also the down time or hang
out time. They liked the unstructured aspects about it as well. However that can lead to
other complications as well which is all out basic chaos with running around and such.
Carolyn
________________________________
From: Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>
To: "sudo-kids(a)lists.sudoroom.org" <sudo-kids(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 4:26 PM
Subject: [Sudo-kids] From our landlord & future of sudo kids
hi all,
during this evening's meeting we'll be discussing how best to address laurie's
last message below. as you can see, a number of issues are tied together here, including
having children in the space. all of you are welcome this evening to help us come up with
a solution to this situation.
additionally, while we're on pause for tuesday evenings, this is a good time to
evaluate where we want to go with sudo kids. what do we envision as the future of this
program? how much and what can we contribute to making it happen? what needs to happen in
order for sudo kids to be a success? is once a week in the evenings a good time? how
should programming be organized, etc?
i'll start:
- my bandwidth for helping organize sudo kids and being present at sudo room every tuesday
night is rapidly shrinking and i'm afraid i can't take on any new obligations at
this time.
- with the larger # of kids the last few times, i didn't feel that we were able to
provide the kind of adult support that i'd like to see for the kinds of things that i
envision sudo kids to be about: hacking, making stuff, learning, etc.
- i think that in order to move forward, an insurance/waiver situation will be necessary.
it will be necessary for someone to investigate the options and then for us to figure out
a way to pay for it. i can't do this right now :(
- one way to move forward would be to partner with other organizations and/or become a
chapter or affiliate of a larger program. one option here would be to pursue a possible
collaboration with hackerscouts (who are looking for a new place and may be open to
collaboration ...i am currently not able to start conversations with those folks about
this).
- finally, there is the option of getting a separate sudo kids space, whether it's one
of the other rooms at 2141, or a separate space entirely. this would involve looking for
locations,finding enough people to commit to paying a regular share of the rent, etc. etc.
i can't take the lead on this process either.
all right, that's it for me! what do others think?
- marina
Forwarded conversation
Subject: [sudo-discuss] Fwd: Children/Security/Janitorial issues.....
------------------------
From: Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 9:16 PM
To: sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Laurie Cooperman Rosen <Lscoop(a)comcast.net>
Date: Wed, Sep 11, 2013 at 6:03 PM
Subject: RE: Children/Security/Janitorial issues.....
To: Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>
Hi Matthew…
I think a meeting would be best because there are so many issues. I agree that the
confrontation was bad, and that George has a problem when something hurts him deeply.
Hopefully those who know him understand that he has a huge heart, and repays kindness
with kindness, but has a hard time handling any type of abuse relating to people, animals
or the building, and he simply can’t control his emotions and what he says when a violent
incident occurs that is uncalled for. Accusations were not made at a particular person
but there was ranting about the lack of control in the evenings and lack of
responsibility/training/accountability for those using the premises that allowed this to
happen, and in that he was righteous.
The problem boils down to the security in the building. Doors are being left open in the
evening and are not being monitored. People not affiliated with the group having an event
can enter, hide, and do what they want later (which only by INCREDIBLE luck has not been
grand theft thus far). We won’t be able to continue the late hours and will have to shut
the building down after a certain time in the evening UNLESS we have a direct responsible
person on-site that is trustworthy, has his/her own security code, and is fully conversant
with the shutting down procedures and who also knows which doors should be shut (and when)
throughout the entire 2141 floor during the evening. It’s not ok for The Sudo Room (or
the Public School) to leave it to the last member staying late to shut down and monitor
what is happening in the building if that person is not trained and knowledgeable and does
not have his/her own security code.
Sometimes people in 2141 leave the door from the office corridor to the bathrooms open
when they should not. This has never been a problem until recently, when traffic started
coming in from the rear door. In the past all traffic came in from the front door. The
person in charge should make sure that the rear door from the bathrooms into that corridor
is always locked throughout the evening.
We have fixed the lock on the 22nd St. entrance so there should no longer be a reason to
keep that door open during non-business hours (during business hours when certain hair
stylists are there it might be kept open, because the stylists can’t use your security
buzz-in system….something that should be rectified and would help building security
IMMENSELY. I have also noticed that even when not being buzzed in the elevator is always
accessible…something that should not be the case).
We are now getting calls up until as late as 3am on a fairly regular basis (one at 3am
this past weekend—usually more like until 11:30 on weekdays and 12-12:30am on weekends),
and it is almost at the point where we are throwing our hands up and saying “don’t send
the police” at a time when it is possible that a robbery COULD be in process or the
building could be open to theft in the middle of the night, because we don’t know who is
in charge or who to call at that hour.
For our part, we need to put in more cameras in a couple of places, although I will draw
the line at having them in a restroom stall. We met the gentleman who was likely the last
person there the night of the awful event, and we believe that although his group was not
directly responsible, he did say that nobody checked the restrooms before leaving, which
should not have been the case. For both security and for those that arrive in the
morning, we are now asking that after every evening group meets that the restrooms be
checked, excess trash disposed of and paper towels/toilet paper replaced as needed. We
have never been responsible for cleanup after events and since what has been happening
there has been way beyond normal usage, we ask that you get together with the Public
School to purchase some extra toilet paper/paper towels to keep on hand and to make sure
that the restrooms are clean, stocked and ready for use when folks arrive in the a.m.
The person in charge for the evening (see more on that below) should be in charge
of that (janitorial/security) aspect as well. We will continue to come in late afternoons
to take care of trash that builds up during the daytime. In order for this to happen we
will ask on every evening if your groups have people there after 9pm that we have the
name/phone number of the person on the premises who will be closing up and whom we can
contact in case of security issues. It is possible for you (and a couple of others from
The Sudo Room & Public School as designated by us) to be able to give people temporary
codes for the security system if a person is trained but will not have access to the
building on a regular basis. The responsible people may give out “one time” security
codes as needed, with the ability to call those codes in directly to Sonitrol (you would
use your own passcode when calling them, and then give them the name of the temporary
person and temporary passcode) as the responsible person allowed to give out additional
temporary codes.
Also, George had me take care of the recycling on
Saturday while he was dealing with the restroom incident. We should not have to be doing
that. It took at least an hour to sort through the massive amount of glass to make sure
that the insides of the bottles were cleaned out and that the plastic and glass
(recyclable) was separated from the cans (which are returned for deposit). In that mess
was also a modicum of some gross garbage that found its way into the recycling. We ask
that this be done for us (glass-plastic separated, washed, into one set of plastic bags,
and clean rinsed aluminum cans into another) and we will be happy to continue to haul them
away, unless you prefer to haul them away yourselves—at this time the aluminum cans bring
in a small amount of money after amassed for a month or two but the rest goes in our
recycle can at home. When unwashed they attract all kinds of bugs and animals which is
why they need to be cleaned
out if we are to take them.
I think that this and the other message covers all of
the main issues. There is more to discuss if a related but separate group wants to be
holding some child care sessions on the premises, but I think that should be via a
conversation with all parties present to address issues of permits, security, insurance
and likely additional rent.
I think this is a fairly thorough response to most of the items, except the one (child
care) that will require more discussion, because we don’t want to see anybody spend money
for permitting or separate child care insurance until a more full understanding and
agreement is made between all participating parties. Obviously, at this point in a lot of
ways it would be much easier if the Sudo Room and related parties were to expand into some
additional space so that more of our costs for that space are covered and so that we can
put some better security features in place and have less worry about constantly having to
clear out excess furnishings, objects and garbage that do not belong in the large common
space, as well as our complete inability to rent out space to unrelated parties on any
regular basis with the way the space is being used. At this point the headaches, stress,
lack of sleep (for us) and stress on the building contents (i.e. walls,
carpeting)
and vulnerability of the building and its tenants are not aligned with the amount of rent
received from your groups. That is not in any way to say that we don’t support and love
what your groups are doing……just that we very much would like to have it work and be a
win-win for all of us, without putting our other tenants at risk.
Your thoughts would be much appreciated.
Laurie
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