#swish? really, this is all just a game to you johnny? On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:46 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote: _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss

aside from any other issues, i sincerely doubt that this is a game to johnny given that he wants to participate in the space.. let's focus on "restorative" instead of "retributive" - johnny seems (to me) to want to follow the process in a good faith way. for anyone who is more familiar with the omni and sudo remediation process than i am, any ideas on how to move forward from here?

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 7:24 AM, robb &lt;sf99er(a)gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sf99er@gmail.com');>> wrote:

On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Marina Kukso &lt;marina.kukso(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Accusations are one thing but the way people choose to respond to accusations is usually a very good predictor of whether they end up with a resolved conflict and regaining access to the space. After Johnny's comments in this thread I predict that he will not be allowed back any time soon. > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 7:24 AM, robb &lt;sf99er(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> #swish? >> >> really, this is all just a game to you johnny? >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:46 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer &lt;patrikd(a)gmail.com&gt; >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Johnny, >>> >>> Is it true that Lesley's has a temporary restraining order against you? >>> That seems to rise above mere "gossip and accusations", and seems like it >>> would be substantial enough to trigger at least a temporary ban. >>> >>> Also, it's the nature of interpersonal conflicts that there may not be >>> any more than "accusations" available to make a decision on. So if someone >>> states that they feel unsafe around another person, it may be justified to >>> remove that other person from the space at least temporarily, until a >>> better informed decision can be reached. >>> >>> Patrik >>> >>> On Jul 20, 2016 2:16 AM, "Johnny" &lt;mostmodernist(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>> that link says if "someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may be >>> placed". it says nothing about how, and obviously is meant to deal with >>> clear present safety issues, not gossip and accusations. >>> >>> abusing that vague apparatus of the super-system to ban people on mere >>> claims is totally fascist and supremacist behavior. >>> >>> defending it is also fascist. >>> >>> calling out for the record that Marc, Matt, Cere, Sigma, Jeremy are >>> fascists for consent to abuse system and unjustly override process without >>> sudo quorum; ya'll better not step on any cracks! >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Marc Juul &lt;juul(a)labitat.dk&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Johnny &lt;mostmodernist(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Marc, >>>>> >>>>> No quorum you say? Sub-Section 3.2.2 "Maintaining Safe Space During >>>>> Conflict Resolution" states that my ban would have had to been ratified >>>>> online without quorum. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> The sudo room space, being part of Omni, is also subject to all Omni >>>> rules, including the Omni safer space policy which I linked previously. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> marc/juul >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> >

aside from any other issues, i sincerely doubt that this is a game to johnny given that he wants to participate in the space.. let's focus on "restorative" instead of "retributive" - johnny seems (to me) to want to follow the process in a good faith way. for anyone who is more familiar with the omni and sudo remediation process than i am, any ideas on how to move forward from here?

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 7:24 AM, robb &lt;sf99er(a)gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','sf99er@gmail.com');>> wrote:

is it possible for someone who's not in oakland for the forseeable future to offer to be a conflict steward? (eg me)

On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 10:51 AM, Marina Kukso &lt;marina.kukso(a)gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','marina.kukso@gmail.com');>> wrote:

Marina, I appreciate your offer, and your past willingness to mediate. However, due to the results of the past mediation, I am not comfortable having you mediate at this time. Your repeated suggestion that Johnny might just be joking and I should reframe his insults/harassment as humor did not prove to be helpful, as evidenced by his subsequent criminal breaking and entering and physical assault. I also did not feel that his words in your presence were sincere, as he repeated some of his inappropriate behavior very soon afterward. On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 10:56 AM Marc Juul &lt;juul(a)labitat.dk&gt; wrote:

I find it kind of humiliating that this has to be so public. I feel that it shows poor judgement on my part to have ignored and suppressed my own feelings for so long in this situation. The humorless feminist straw man is a scary thing to be policed with, if I have an excuse. I give people the benefit of the doubt, I accept a lot of communication styles, so I laughed the first half dozen or so times he called me something awful in a way that was plausibly-kidding-but-really-not. And that's how I wound up spending months getting harassed, having my sleep disturbed, by someone who felt entitled to treat me any way he liked. Who respected my physical autonomy so little that he could threaten to hurt me, and laugh when I was afraid, and touch me when I told him not to. Marina, we never agreed to that. I agreed to have some understanding of Johnny's position of not remembering one thing he said due to being very drunk, and acknowledging that there might be other factors at play, but that's absolutely what happened. There was no talk of me being evicted or kicked out until he drunkenly told me he'd "almost kicked me out like three times over sexual tension." He doesn't remember this, but he said it. His email that tells me to get out was a direct reply to my email telling him his behavior was inappropriate and scary and needed to stop. On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 11:10 AM Lesley Bell &lt;zvezdalune(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Marina, > > I appreciate your offer, and your past willingness to mediate. However, > due to the results of the past mediation, I am not comfortable having you > mediate at this time. > > Your repeated suggestion that Johnny might just be joking and I should > reframe his insults/harassment as humor did not prove to be helpful, as > evidenced by his subsequent criminal breaking and entering and physical > assault. I also did not feel that his words in your presence were sincere, > as he repeated some of his inappropriate behavior very soon afterward. > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 10:56 AM Marc Juul &lt;juul(a)labitat.dk&gt; wrote: > >> >> >> On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Marina Kukso &lt;marina.kukso(a)gmail.com&gt; >> wrote: >> >>> aside from any other issues, i sincerely doubt that this is a game to >>> johnny given that he wants to participate in the space.. >>> >>> let's focus on "restorative" instead of "retributive" - johnny seems >>> (to me) to want to follow the process in a good faith way. for anyone who >>> is more familiar with the omni and sudo remediation process than i am, any >>> ideas on how to move forward from here? >>> >> >> Accusations are one thing but the way people choose to respond to >> accusations is usually a very good predictor of whether they end up with a >> resolved conflict and regaining access to the space. >> >> After Johnny's comments in this thread I predict that he will not be >> allowed back any time soon. >> >> >> >>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 7:24 AM, robb &lt;sf99er(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> #swish? >>>> >>>> really, this is all just a game to you johnny? >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:46 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer &lt;patrikd(a)gmail.com >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Johnny, >>>>> >>>>> Is it true that Lesley's has a temporary restraining order against >>>>> you? That seems to rise above mere "gossip and accusations", and seems like >>>>> it would be substantial enough to trigger at least a temporary ban. >>>>> >>>>> Also, it's the nature of interpersonal conflicts that there may not >>>>> be any more than "accusations" available to make a decision on. So if >>>>> someone states that they feel unsafe around another person, it may be >>>>> justified to remove that other person from the space at least temporarily, >>>>> until a better informed decision can be reached. >>>>> >>>>> Patrik >>>>> >>>>> On Jul 20, 2016 2:16 AM, "Johnny" &lt;mostmodernist(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>> that link says if "someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may >>>>> be placed". it says nothing about how, and obviously is meant to deal with >>>>> clear present safety issues, not gossip and accusations. >>>>> >>>>> abusing that vague apparatus of the super-system to ban people on >>>>> mere claims is totally fascist and supremacist behavior. >>>>> >>>>> defending it is also fascist. >>>>> >>>>> calling out for the record that Marc, Matt, Cere, Sigma, Jeremy are >>>>> fascists for consent to abuse system and unjustly override process without >>>>> sudo quorum; ya'll better not step on any cracks! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Marc Juul &lt;juul(a)labitat.dk&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Johnny &lt;mostmodernist(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Marc, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No quorum you say? Sub-Section 3.2.2 "Maintaining Safe Space >>>>>>> During Conflict Resolution" states that my ban would have had to been >>>>>>> ratified online without quorum. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> The sudo room space, being part of Omni, is also subject to all Omni >>>>>> rules, including the Omni safer space policy which I linked previously. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> marc/juul >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >

Also, that all happened and was awful, but he's been asked to leave for repeatedly breaking the safe space policy in other ways, including assault. On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 11:30 AM Lesley Bell &lt;zvezdalune(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > I find it kind of humiliating that this has to be so public. I feel that > it shows poor judgement on my part to have ignored and suppressed my own > feelings for so long in this situation. The humorless feminist straw man is > a scary thing to be policed with, if I have an excuse. I give people the > benefit of the doubt, I accept a lot of communication styles, so I laughed > the first half dozen or so times he called me something awful in a way that > was plausibly-kidding-but-really-not. > > And that's how I wound up spending months getting harassed, having my > sleep disturbed, by someone who felt entitled to treat me any way he liked. > Who respected my physical autonomy so little that he could threaten to hurt > me, and laugh when I was afraid, and touch me when I told him not to. > > Marina, we never agreed to that. I agreed to have some understanding of > Johnny's position of not remembering one thing he said due to being very > drunk, and acknowledging that there might be other factors at play, but > that's absolutely what happened. > > There was no talk of me being evicted or kicked out until he drunkenly > told me he'd "almost kicked me out like three times over sexual tension." > He doesn't remember this, but he said it. > > His email that tells me to get out was a direct reply to my email telling > him his behavior was inappropriate and scary and needed to stop. > > On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 11:10 AM Lesley Bell &lt;zvezdalune(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> Marina, >> >> I appreciate your offer, and your past willingness to mediate. However, >> due to the results of the past mediation, I am not comfortable having you >> mediate at this time. >> >> Your repeated suggestion that Johnny might just be joking and I should >> reframe his insults/harassment as humor did not prove to be helpful, as >> evidenced by his subsequent criminal breaking and entering and physical >> assault. I also did not feel that his words in your presence were sincere, >> as he repeated some of his inappropriate behavior very soon afterward. >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 10:56 AM Marc Juul &lt;juul(a)labitat.dk&gt; wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Marina Kukso &lt;marina.kukso(a)gmail.com&gt; >>> wrote: >>> >>>> aside from any other issues, i sincerely doubt that this is a game to >>>> johnny given that he wants to participate in the space.. >>>> >>>> let's focus on "restorative" instead of "retributive" - johnny seems >>>> (to me) to want to follow the process in a good faith way. for anyone who >>>> is more familiar with the omni and sudo remediation process than i am, any >>>> ideas on how to move forward from here? >>>> >>> >>> Accusations are one thing but the way people choose to respond to >>> accusations is usually a very good predictor of whether they end up with a >>> resolved conflict and regaining access to the space. >>> >>> After Johnny's comments in this thread I predict that he will not be >>> allowed back any time soon. >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 7:24 AM, robb &lt;sf99er(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> #swish? >>>>> >>>>> really, this is all just a game to you johnny? >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:46 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer < >>>>> patrikd(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Johnny, >>>>>> >>>>>> Is it true that Lesley's has a temporary restraining order against >>>>>> you? That seems to rise above mere "gossip and accusations", and seems like >>>>>> it would be substantial enough to trigger at least a temporary ban. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, it's the nature of interpersonal conflicts that there may not >>>>>> be any more than "accusations" available to make a decision on. So if >>>>>> someone states that they feel unsafe around another person, it may be >>>>>> justified to remove that other person from the space at least temporarily, >>>>>> until a better informed decision can be reached. >>>>>> >>>>>> Patrik >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 20, 2016 2:16 AM, "Johnny" &lt;mostmodernist(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> that link says if "someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may >>>>>> be placed". it says nothing about how, and obviously is meant to deal with >>>>>> clear present safety issues, not gossip and accusations. >>>>>> >>>>>> abusing that vague apparatus of the super-system to ban people on >>>>>> mere claims is totally fascist and supremacist behavior. >>>>>> >>>>>> defending it is also fascist. >>>>>> >>>>>> calling out for the record that Marc, Matt, Cere, Sigma, Jeremy are >>>>>> fascists for consent to abuse system and unjustly override process without >>>>>> sudo quorum; ya'll better not step on any cracks! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Marc Juul &lt;juul(a)labitat.dk&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Johnny &lt;mostmodernist(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Marc, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> No quorum you say? Sub-Section 3.2.2 "Maintaining Safe Space >>>>>>>> During Conflict Resolution" states that my ban would have had to been >>>>>>>> ratified online without quorum. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> The sudo room space, being part of Omni, is also subject to all >>>>>>> Omni rules, including the Omni safer space policy which I linked previously. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> marc/juul >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >>

On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Lesley Bell &lt;zvezdalune(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Just to clarify: In this thread Marina was offering to act as Conflict Steward, not mediator. _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss

How does a housing conflict supersede use of a shared space? There are two sides to this story, please remember this in any decisions made. Best, Scott R. Edmonds Mobile: 1-510-928-3469 On Jul 20, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Johnny &lt;mostmodernist(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: LOL So in addition to being pre-judged and convicted by a kangaroo court of 4 sudoers at last week's meeting, I must also watch what words I used to express myself in defense of public accusations? Well, then, add patriarchal to fascist and supremacist tendencies, ye saviors of the oppressed! let's take it step by step: * 4 sudoers banned me without process or quorum, using superseding powers, just like fascists do * my privacy with regard to claims made has been violated * sudo room's own process has been hijacked, which was supposed to provide me with presumption of innocence and a few "rights", and the pretense of good will; and an actual process of resolution via mediation * I can't speak freely without repudiation and judgement But you can't take some words? Have a middle finger then! Thanks to your protocol, I have to absorb a continuation of a year's worth of harassment and abuse from lesley, now in public spectacle form, with accusations to supposed peers. Same shit, different levers. I'm being called all kinds of things here in this thread still, but I can't state I think some people's behavior is fascist and still expect fairness? Okay then! Ya'll know zero facts, and aren't even listening to one who has had firsthand experience with this conflict. There was zero evidence of unsafe behavior, or danger, to anybody. The information disparity you are acting on is beyond reproach, and is causing acute lunacy. Has anybody from last week's meeting even spoke up yet? Where you at, lil fascists? Btw, ya'lls high-winded "support of the oppressed" would not pass muster for many other oppressed people and communities, no matter how much you claim to protect them; it would look and smell like the systems used by people of privilege to enact continued systemic oppression, even while being oblivious to it. I do not have any desire to take part in mediation where I am straight jacketed while "the process" is manipulated by the accuser and a small faction of members. Sudo room done gave up sudo privileges when it acquiesced to the OMNI. As was noted above by another member, fairness cannot possibly be expected by oneself such as me. Ya'll can keep that rat in your trap. FYI: I had to formally evict kick Lesley out of our house on account of many other people she harassed and abused with these same tactics. In fact, more than one person here would accuse her of sexual harassment. I guess we should have taken it up with the high court of OMNI/sudo! I am her target now, because I am the only one who had authority to remove her from our house, and I did so, finally, despite our friendship, only after patiently attempting many, many times get mediation between her and others (she refused most attempts), and begging that she leave on her own, for the good of all. I did this with nothing but words and oaths and sadness, even as she began turning the accusations and harassment on me. And It was this same manipulative behavior to the landlord that precipitated my current eviction, which has sent several people in my community, all of them as vulnerable as lesley, running for cover elsewhere. If ya'll want some testimony from other of lesley's victims who got it worse than I am even now, and who can definitely not be mistaken for an able cis white male, i'll be glad to get it to you so you know what you're defending with your so-called process. Perhaps then yall dummies will understand why the omni and sudo have begun looking like a private club of privilege masquerading as the white knight for all oppressed people everywhere. Pick one please, and stop trying to fool the good people of Oakland. Meanwhile you're now safe-spacing an admitted and actual racist, supremacist, and misanthrope. And you refuse to react with reason, and haste, to this ironic and tainted breach of process, privacy, dignity, and cooperative spirit. Gotta get back to hacking the system! Yes, fascist is the right word. It's just right. You don't like? Eat it! You will be judged by the society you choose to keep, not your righteous self-identifications, proclamations, and fungible policies, despite your best intentions. Ya'll too comfortable. I'm not "taking this seriously", cuz that would make me ill, but I ain't joking either. Ya'll be breathing too much of your own righteous gas to think your notions of propriety and process are worth the trouble. Thanks for the solder. It's on ya'll to come correct, not me. Middle finger to your "process". I don't need lesley's harassment magnified on me by your social club's bugged protocol. I was happy as a clam to be rid of her at last. I'll give up all omni to be rid of one Lesley Bell. With hope that it prevents her doing oppressed people on the outside more harm, may the OMNI become the ONLY space she feels safe. peace signed, johnny On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Marc Juul &lt;juul(a)labitat.dk&gt; wrote: On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Lesley Bell &lt;zvezdalune(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Marina, I appreciate your offer, and your past willingness to mediate. However, due to the results of the past mediation, I am not comfortable having you mediate at this time. Just to clarify: In this thread Marina was offering to act as Conflict Steward, not mediator. Your repeated suggestion that Johnny might just be joking and I should reframe his insults/harassment as humor did not prove to be helpful, as evidenced by his subsequent criminal breaking and entering and physical assault. I also did not feel that his words in your presence were sincere, as he repeated some of his inappropriate behavior very soon afterward. On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 10:56 AM Marc Juul &lt;juul(a)labitat.dk&gt; wrote: On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Marina Kukso &lt;marina.kukso(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: aside from any other issues, i sincerely doubt that this is a game to johnny given that he wants to participate in the space.. let's focus on "restorative" instead of "retributive" - johnny seems (to me) to want to follow the process in a good faith way. for anyone who is more familiar with the omni and sudo remediation process than i am, any ideas on how to move forward from here? Accusations are one thing but the way people choose to respond to accusations is usually a very good predictor of whether they end up with a resolved conflict and regaining access to the space. After Johnny's comments in this thread I predict that he will not be allowed back any time soon. On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 7:24 AM, robb &lt;sf99er(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: #swish? really, this is all just a game to you johnny? On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:46 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer &lt;patrikd(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Hi Johnny, Is it true that Lesley's has a temporary restraining order against you? That seems to rise above mere "gossip and accusations", and seems like it would be substantial enough to trigger at least a temporary ban. Also, it's the nature of interpersonal conflicts that there may not be any more than "accusations" available to make a decision on. So if someone states that they feel unsafe around another person, it may be justified to remove that other person from the space at least temporarily, until a better informed decision can be reached. Patrik On Jul 20, 2016 2:16 AM, "Johnny" &lt;mostmodernist(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: that link says if "someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may be placed". it says nothing about how, and obviously is meant to deal with clear present safety issues, not gossip and accusations. abusing that vague apparatus of the super-system to ban people on mere claims is totally fascist and supremacist behavior. defending it is also fascist. calling out for the record that Marc, Matt, Cere, Sigma, Jeremy are fascists for consent to abuse system and unjustly override process without sudo quorum; ya'll better not step on any cracks! On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Marc Juul &lt;juul(a)labitat.dk&gt; wrote: On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Johnny &lt;mostmodernist(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Marc, No quorum you say? Sub-Section 3.2.2 "Maintaining Safe Space During Conflict Resolution" states that my ban would have had to been ratified online without quorum. The sudo room space, being part of Omni, is also subject to all Omni rules, including the Omni safer space policy which I linked previously. -- marc/juul

_______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss

I volunteer to mediate this conflict. On Wed, 20 Jul 2016, hol(a)gaskill.com wrote: > Worth taking another look at the referenced section where we enumerate > rights and possibly some discussion. Mediation / Stewarding takes > alot > of time and energy and with the number of projects going on top of > subsistence level tasks, I don't believe anyone is entitled to the > efforts of already very thin-spread volunteers. > > I've done mediation twice for sudo and it's certainly not something > I'd > do for someone who shows zero respect for the space - no one should > have > the expectation that because sudo room is a thing that exists, they > are > owed something by it or its members before or even after demonstrating > any kind of goodwill. > > I don't know any of the facts behind this other conflict that is being > brought into sudo room but part of the reason we have a conflict > resolution track is so these topics don't take over the communications > fora or meeting time. Since Marina has recused herself from this > topic, > any volunteers here or has the bridge been burned down to the > waterline? > On 2016-07-20 14:32, Scott Edmonds wrote: > >> How does a housing conflict supersede use of a shared space? There >> are two sides to this story, please remember this in any decisions >> made. >> >> Best, >> >> Scott R. Edmonds >> Mobile: 1-510-928-3469 >> >> On Jul 20, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Johnny &lt;mostmodernist(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >> LOL So in addition to being pre-judged and convicted by a kangaroo >> court of 4 sudoers at last week's meeting, I must also watch what >> words I used to express myself in defense of public accusations? >> Well, then, add patriarchal to fascist and supremacist tendencies, ye >> saviors of the oppressed! >> >> let's take it step by step: >> * 4 sudoers banned me without process or quorum, using superseding >> powers, just like fascists do >> * my privacy with regard to claims made has been violated >> * sudo room's own process has been hijacked, which was supposed to >> provide me with presumption of innocence and a few "rights", and the >> pretense of good will; and an actual process of resolution via >> mediation >> * I can't speak freely without repudiation and judgement >> >> But you can't take some words? Have a middle finger then! >> >> Thanks to your protocol, I have to absorb a continuation of a year's >> worth of harassment and abuse from lesley, now in public spectacle >> form, with accusations to supposed peers. Same shit, different >> levers. I'm being called all kinds of things here in this thread >> still, but I can't state I think some people's behavior is fascist >> and still expect fairness? Okay then! >> >> Ya'll know zero facts, and aren't even listening to one who has had >> firsthand experience with this conflict. There was zero evidence of >> unsafe behavior, or danger, to anybody. The information disparity >> you are acting on is beyond reproach, and is causing acute lunacy. >> Has anybody from last week's meeting even spoke up yet? Where you >> at, lil fascists? >> >> Btw, ya'lls high-winded "support of the oppressed" would not pass >> muster for many other oppressed people and communities, no matter how >> much you claim to protect them; it would look and smell like the >> systems used by people of privilege to enact continued systemic >> oppression, even while being oblivious to it. >> >> I do not have any desire to take part in mediation where I am >> straight jacketed while "the process" is manipulated by the accuser >> and a small faction of members. Sudo room done gave up sudo >> privileges when it acquiesced to the OMNI. As was noted above by >> another member, fairness cannot possibly be expected by oneself such >> as me. >> >> Ya'll can keep that rat in your trap. >> >> FYI: I had to formally evict kick Lesley out of our house on account >> of many other people she harassed and abused with these same tactics. >> In fact, more than one person here would accuse her of sexual >> harassment. I guess we should have taken it up with the high court >> of OMNI/sudo! >> >> I am her target now, because I am the only one who had authority to >> remove her from our house, and I did so, finally, despite our >> friendship, only after patiently attempting many, many times get >> mediation between her and others (she refused most attempts), and >> begging that she leave on her own, for the good of all. I did this >> with nothing but words and oaths and sadness, even as she began >> turning the accusations and harassment on me. >> >> And It was this same manipulative behavior to the landlord that >> precipitated my current eviction, which has sent several people in my >> community, all of them as vulnerable as lesley, running for cover >> elsewhere. >> >> If ya'll want some testimony from other of lesley's victims who got >> it worse than I am even now, and who can definitely not be mistaken >> for an able cis white male, i'll be glad to get it to you so you know >> what you're defending with your so-called process. >> >> Perhaps then yall dummies will understand why the omni and sudo have >> begun looking like a private club of privilege masquerading as the >> white knight for all oppressed people everywhere. Pick one please, >> and stop trying to fool the good people of Oakland. >> >> Meanwhile you're now safe-spacing an admitted and actual racist, >> supremacist, and misanthrope. >> >> And you refuse to react with reason, and haste, to this ironic and >> tainted breach of process, privacy, dignity, and cooperative spirit. >> Gotta get back to hacking the system! >> >> Yes, fascist is the right word. It's just right. You don't like? >> Eat it! >> >> You will be judged by the society you choose to keep, not your >> righteous self-identifications, proclamations, and fungible policies, >> despite your best intentions. Ya'll too comfortable. >> >> I'm not "taking this seriously", cuz that would make me ill, but I >> ain't joking either. Ya'll be breathing too much of your own >> righteous gas to think your notions of propriety and process are >> worth the trouble. Thanks for the solder. >> >> It's on ya'll to come correct, not me. Middle finger to your >> "process". I don't need lesley's harassment magnified on me by your >> social club's bugged protocol. I was happy as a clam to be rid of her >> at last. >> >> I'll give up all omni to be rid of one Lesley Bell. With hope that >> it prevents her doing oppressed people on the outside more harm, may >> the OMNI become the ONLY space she feels safe. >> >> peace signed, >> johnny >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Marc Juul &lt;juul(a)labitat.dk&gt; wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Lesley Bell &lt;zvezdalune(a)gmail.com&gt; >> wrote: >> >> Marina, >> >> I appreciate your offer, and your past willingness to mediate. >> However, due to the results of the past mediation, I am not >> comfortable having you mediate at this time. >> >> Just to clarify: In this thread Marina was offering to act as >> Conflict Steward, not mediator. >> >> Your repeated suggestion that Johnny might just be joking and I >> should reframe his insults/harassment as humor did not prove to be >> helpful, as evidenced by his subsequent criminal breaking and >> entering and physical assault. I also did not feel that his words in >> your presence were sincere, as he repeated some of his inappropriate >> behavior very soon afterward. >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 10:56 AM Marc Juul &lt;juul(a)labitat.dk&gt; wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Marina Kukso &lt;marina.kukso(a)gmail.com&gt; >> wrote: >> >> aside from any other issues, i sincerely doubt that this is a game to >> johnny given that he wants to participate in the space.. >> >> let's focus on "restorative" instead of "retributive" - johnny seems >> (to me) to want to follow the process in a good faith way. for anyone >> who is more familiar with the omni and sudo remediation process than >> i am, any ideas on how to move forward from here? >> >> Accusations are one thing but the way people choose to respond to >> accusations is usually a very good predictor of whether they end up >> with a resolved conflict and regaining access to the space. >> >> After Johnny's comments in this thread I predict that he will not be >> allowed back any time soon. >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 7:24 AM, robb &lt;sf99er(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >> #swish? >> >> really, this is all just a game to you johnny? >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:46 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer >> &lt;patrikd(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >> Hi Johnny, >> >> Is it true that Lesley's has a temporary restraining order against >> you? That seems to rise above mere "gossip and accusations", and >> seems like it would be substantial enough to trigger at least a >> temporary ban. >> >> Also, it's the nature of interpersonal conflicts that there may not >> be any more than "accusations" available to make a decision on. So if >> someone states that they feel unsafe around another person, it may be >> justified to remove that other person from the space at least >> temporarily, until a better informed decision can be reached. >> >> Patrik >> >> On Jul 20, 2016 2:16 AM, "Johnny" &lt;mostmodernist(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >> that link says if "someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may >> be placed". it says nothing about how, and obviously is meant to >> deal with clear present safety issues, not gossip and accusations. >> >> abusing that vague apparatus of the super-system to ban people on >> mere claims is totally fascist and supremacist behavior. >> >> defending it is also fascist. >> >> calling out for the record that Marc, Matt, Cere, Sigma, Jeremy are >> fascists for consent to abuse system and unjustly override process >> without sudo quorum; ya'll better not step on any cracks! >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Marc Juul &lt;juul(a)labitat.dk&gt; wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Johnny &lt;mostmodernist(a)gmail.com&gt; >> wrote: >> >> Marc, >> >> No quorum you say? Sub-Section 3.2.2 "Maintaining Safe Space During >> Conflict Resolution" states that my ban would have had to been >> ratified online without quorum. >> >> The sudo room space, being part of Omni, is also subject to all Omni >> rules, including the Omni safer space policy which I linked >> previously. >> >> -- >> marc/juul > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss > >> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss