[sudo-discuss] Re: sudoroom meeting Wednesday at 8PM

I’m not opposed to those rule changes, although I don’t think they are addressing the heart of these issues. We have a critical deficit of trust among delegates, and I think our approach should address this. My preferred approach is this: First, give TANC clarity. Ensure them that will make a decision within four weeks, one way or the other. If we can’t admit them, we need to reject them. I hope we can admit them, indefinite uncertainty is worse. Second, I’d like to speak to the blockers. I think my distance from the prior discussions gives me room to break the impasse. I’d really like to speak one-on-one with as many people as possibly. Patrik, Joe, can either of you call or text me at (341) 203-0321 or 412.6575332, I think real time communication would allow us to get on the same page a lot faster than email. Third, I’d like to hear from anyone dissatisfied with the current delegates about which delegates they trust and which they don’t do we can bring the underlying issues forward and encourage changes in leadership to attempt a reset. On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 10:19 AM Patrik D'haeseleer &lt;patrikd(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > So let's start by fixing BOGSS, then deal with CLP if people feel that is > needed, then TANC - that seems like the correct order. > > I had written this in another thread, but now that I've written it out, I > might as well post it here: > > I think we should make a change in the rules that govern BOGSS, which is > not in the bylaw (just like Sudo Room's rules are not in the bylaws). > > This is the document in question: https://omnicommons.org/wiki/BOGSS > > I would make the following changes (highlighted in bold): > > 1. Committee Makeup: There shall be 5 members of BOGSS selected from Omni > collectives and at large or working group volunteers/organizers, *including > no more than 2 committee members from each collective, working group, > or "renters" (organizations that rent space but are not collective members)*. > All members must be selected per the election process below. T*he BOGSS > committee shall be considered inactive when it has less than 5 members, or > more than 2 members from any one collective, working group, or renters. > When inactive, the BOGSS committee shall only have an advisory role rather > than the Powers described below.* > > 2a*. * > The congress shall have the following caps to prevent a single > organization from overwhelming the membership: > > - 5 maximum members per Omni collective > - 5 maximum members from at large Omni volunteers from the various > working groups > - 2 maximum members per Omni "renters" (Orgs that rent space but are > not collective members) > - *No more than 1/3 of members from any one collective, working > group, or renters* > > 2b. Nomination and Election Process: > > - From this first round, the top 10 nominees*, including no more than > the top 3 from each collective or working group,* will be chosen to > advance to the second round of elections. During the second round, each > Congress member may submit 2 votes for BOGSS. These votes must go to 2 > different nominees. These votes shall also be submitted through a role call > process. At the conclusion of this second round, the top 5 vote getters,* including > no more than the top 2 from each collective or working group,* shall > be selected to BOGSS for the next term. > > 3a. BOGSS Powers: *When the BOGSS committee is not inactive, *BOGGS > shall have the power to... > > > I think these changes should be non-controversial (in an ideal world), > and in line with the language that is already in there about the need to > "prevent a single organization from overwhelming the membership". > > Patrik > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 9:58 AM Jake Watters &lt;typeinthenumber(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > >> Patrik I think you're misinterpreting the situation. Boggs is not in >> session. It's literally just Geraldo claiming to be bogss so he can vote >> with CLP. He created an email address "boggs" in order to look more >> legitimate. Let's call it for what it is. >> >> Of course he doesn't respond to Silver wanting to join. Of course he >> doesn't help Marquise with his conflicts. He's just trying to help CLP. >> >> On Wed, Sep 20, 2023, 03:03 Patrik D'haeseleer via sudo-discuss < >> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 1:57 AM Z Silver Zahn &lt;natashazahn27(a)gmail.com&gt; >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I’ve been trying to join boggs in the last few months and no response … >>>> >>> >>> Yes, and that is definitely something we need to remedy as soon as >>> possible. As far as I can tell there is no justification for BOGSS to >>> exclude an eligible representative. >>> >>> Strictly speaking it is up to individual collectives to select their >>> representatives. If Sudo Room needs to have a formal vote on that, anyone >>> who wishes to volunteer has my full support. >>> >>> Patrik >>> >>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 1:56 AM Patrik D'haeseleer via sudo-discuss < >>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> I would also like to urge some Sudo folks to step up and *join >>>>> Omni's Diversity/Equity/Inclusion committee*, BOGSS. Right now, the >>>>> only members on that committee are from CLP, and they get a vote on the >>>>> delegates meeting, which effectively gives CLP two votes at the table. >>>>> >>>>> I believe the only requirement for being on the committee is to be >>>>> non-white OR non-male, and each collective can have up to 5 representatives >>>>> on the larger BOGSS "congress" that appoints the committee. >>>>> >>>>> We can argue that BOGSS is currently inactive because they haven't >>>>> been having meetings, and don't have the required number of committee >>>>> members, and CLP is double-dipping. But the cleaner way would be to stack >>>>> BOGSS so they more accurately reflect the diversity at Omni. >>>>> >>>>> Patrik >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 6:47 PM Andrew R Gross via sudo-discuss < >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> As Jake said, Omni has to make some decisions, and this only works >>>>>> if we get engagement. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you're confused or overwhelmed, feel free to say so. Message >>>>>> either of us privately. Come in in person and talk it out. But Sudo and >>>>>> Omni can't function and do what we're here to do is people don't >>>>>> participate. Thanks everyone! >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 1:04 PM Jake via sudo-discuss < >>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Just to bump this issue, the delegates are still talking about it >>>>>>> and the one >>>>>>> group "CLP" are still trying to block TANC from moving in. The >>>>>>> delegates are >>>>>>> emailing about this to try to quell the confusion around this >>>>>>> issue, so now is >>>>>>> the time for Sudoroom (and all omni collectives) to meet and >>>>>>> discuss it in >>>>>>> order to make sure that their delegate (me and/or Andy) can go >>>>>>> forward into >>>>>>> the next delegates meeting (which might be sooner than normal) to >>>>>>> discuss it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can people make it to an in-person meeting on Wednesday night at >>>>>>> sudoroom? As >>>>>>> always there is the video link portal at this link, which connects >>>>>>> you to the >>>>>>> room over video and audio (try it anytime) >>>>>>> https://meet.waag.org/turtlesturtlesturtles >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Previous meeting notes: >>>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Meetings#Meeting_Notes_Archive >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wednesday night meeting at 8? Or thoughts about the situation >>>>>>> described >>>>>>> below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To be clear, I think the question is going to come up of voting to >>>>>>> remove CLP >>>>>>> from Omni Commons, so we need to make it clear for our delegates >>>>>>> what our >>>>>>> position is on that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -jake >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2023, Jake Watters via sudo-discuss wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > Just to clarify, TANC has already been voted in according to our >>>>>>> bylaws: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> https://omnicommons.org/pipermail/consensus/2023-September/004001.html >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > On Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 13:07 Andrew R Gross via sudo-discuss < >>>>>>> > sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >> Just to clarify, TANC is Tenants and Neighborhoods Councils. >>>>>>> They're a >>>>>>> >> local tenants union who helps organize renters to form unions in >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> >> between apartment buildings to challenge rent increase or >>>>>>> otherwise push >>>>>>> >> back against property managers. I reached out to them last year >>>>>>> when I was >>>>>>> >> looking for advice in dealing with bad behavior by my property >>>>>>> manager, and >>>>>>> >> attended one of their meetings. I support their work. >>>>>>> https://baytanc.com >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> CLP is Community Liberation Programs: >>>>>>> >> https://www.communityliberationprograms.org/. I don't know much >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> >> them, honestly. They organize programs around diverse socialist >>>>>>> goals, >>>>>>> >> which sounds like something I'd completely support, but I think >>>>>>> it's >>>>>>> >> misguided to block TANC from joining Omni, particularly on the >>>>>>> charge that >>>>>>> >> they're not outspoken enough about Palestine. I don't think >>>>>>> they've >>>>>>> >> provided any evidence for the claim, and it's also creating a >>>>>>> lot of >>>>>>> >> conflict within Omni that seems super unproductive. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Especially because *Omni is facing foreclosure at the end of the >>>>>>> year* if >>>>>>> >> we don't find a new lender. We need a strong financial base of >>>>>>> support from >>>>>>> >> member collectives in order to convince a credit union to loan >>>>>>> us money to >>>>>>> >> avoid losing the building. I don't want to pick a fight with >>>>>>> CLP, but the >>>>>>> >> consensus process is meant to encourage discussion and >>>>>>> persuasion, and >>>>>>> >> blocks are supposed to be used for matters of urgent necessity. >>>>>>> >> Filibustering a new collective's joining or using a block >>>>>>> because you >>>>>>> >> haven't been successful persuading others is not a good-faith >>>>>>> use of the >>>>>>> >> consensus process, imo. Which is why I think Sudo should endorse >>>>>>> a proposal >>>>>>> >> to use the consensus-minus-one clause to proceed with inducting >>>>>>> TANC into >>>>>>> >> Omni. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> Does anyone disagree? If so, can you please offer a counter >>>>>>> proposal to >>>>>>> >> resolve this dispute. If there is no block on the motion, then I >>>>>>> believe >>>>>>> >> whoever represents Sudo at the next Thursday Omni meeting will >>>>>>> register our >>>>>>> >> collective as being in support of the motion to disregard CLP's >>>>>>> block on >>>>>>> >> TANC joining. >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> -Andy >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> <https://baytanc.com/> >>>>>>> >> *Andrew R Gross, (he/him)* >>>>>>> >> 412.657.5332 - shrad.org <http://www.shrad.org> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >> On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 8:44 PM Karissa McKelvey < >>>>>>> krmckelv(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >>> There are a lot of acronyms here I have no idea what's going >>>>>>> on. but this >>>>>>> >>> is exactly why consensus-1 exists >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 2:56 PM Z Silver Zahn via sudo-discuss < >>>>>>> >>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>>> I really thinks it’s inappropriate to ask an organization that >>>>>>> Omni >>>>>>> >>>> dosent have that much of a relationship to spend their energy >>>>>>> looking into >>>>>>> >>>> who TANC is , what omni decision making model is etc. I hope >>>>>>> CLP steps up >>>>>>> >>>> to these demands they imposed on PYM . >>>>>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 2:29 PM Andrew R Gross via >>>>>>> sudo-discuss < >>>>>>> >>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> I strongly, strongly endorse Yar’s proposal, and while I’m >>>>>>> trying to >>>>>>> >>>>> take a break from Omni politics, I would be willing to make >>>>>>> an exception if >>>>>>> >>>>> there’s anything I can do to help break this impasse. >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> I am neutral on ejecting or suspending CLP. I’m happy to try >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> >>>>> resolve things with them if they’re willing, but I wouldn’t >>>>>>> mind seeing >>>>>>> >>>>> them go if they continue to demonstrate a lack of >>>>>>> consideration for the >>>>>>> >>>>> consensus process. Tanc’s approval has taken far too long, >>>>>>> imo. >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> It’s frankly shitty to spend so much time denigrating and >>>>>>> occupying the >>>>>>> >>>>> limited resources of a group that helps renters stay in their >>>>>>> homes. >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 2:20 PM Muirén Ní Sídach via >>>>>>> sudo-discuss < >>>>>>> >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> I get the picture. >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> More options at >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>>> >>>>> More options at >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>>> >>>> More options at >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>>>> >>>> >>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>>> >> More options at >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>>> More options at >>>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> More options at >>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>> More options at >>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>> More options at >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>> >>