30 Jan
2013
30 Jan
'13
3:55 p.m.
When founder status has been abused to the point of revoking the decisions
of operators, behaving inappropriately with insulting symbols, and
intimidating one of our most awesomely proactive members (which Yardena
described most acutely and all of which I have been witness to), then it
would seem Founder status is indeed required to be held by someone the
community trusts.
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://thepyre.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Mischa Spiegelmock
<thadwooster(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Founder status is not required to "filter"
the content of the channel
On Jan 30, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Jae Kwon wrote:
_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
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http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Here's a proposal.
Assume that #sudoroom on FreeNode should be officially operated by
SudoRoom the
collective. [assumption 1]
Assume that FreeNode will force the transfer of
+F to whoever/whatever
SudoRoom decides. [assumption 2]
Assume that SudoRoom agrees that the contents of
#sudoroom should be
filtered for the purpose of SafeSpace. [assumption 3]
Then I suggest we:
(0) test the assumptions first.
(a) vote on whether +F should be reassigned, and if so,
(b) vote to whom +F should go, where candidates are suggested -- real
bot
implementations included.
On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:26 PM, hol(a)gaskill.com wrote:
> bumping rachel's sentiment here. yardena's note here was the clearest
explanation I've seen, as someone who doesn't really get on the IRC channel
and who would like this information to get out prior to the meeting so as
to reduce meeting time.
>
>
> Jan 30, 2013 01:15:46 PM, rachelyra(a)gmail.com wrote:
> i think this reply is dismissive and it makes me sadfaced.
>>
>> Yardena is talking about much deeper and more insidious, and
potentially
>> divisive, issues than typos or spelling.
If you think her concerns are
>> boring, then you could easily ignore them and stay silent without being
>> dismissive and rude.
>>
>> Yardena did an awesome job of facilitating meetings for 6 straight
hours
>> last week... it seems to me like anyone
who enjoyed that experience
with
>> her might take a moment to give a damn
about her concerns.
>>
>> Multiple folks have suggested it would be good to have a clear IRC
>> policy. That seems like a good next step. Maybe a wiki page, seeded
>> with Yardena 's suggestion here? I am not active on the channel so am
>> not sure if it makes sense for me to be too involved in that
process...?
>>
>> R.
>>
>> On 1/30/2013 1:07 PM, Clarence Beeks wrote:
>>> Do you know why America is awesome? We have the time and privilege
and
>>> resources to argue
>>> over replacing a "Y" with a "J".
>>>
>>> I can 't wait for the next comet.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Yardena Cohen yardenack(a)gmail.com
>>> mailto:yardenack@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Apparently the Sudo folk with admin privileges to the #sudoroom
>>> IRC channel are jealously resistant to sharing control,
>>>
>>>> This is not the case. Jordana and Tunabananas have operator
>>> privileges and can perform any sort of moderation they desire. If
>>> you have an issue with the content of #sudoroom, creating a new
>>> channel will not solve that problem.
>>>
>>> I avoided replying to this right away, because I was too angry and
>>> creeped out over being called "Jordana." He did this once before
in
>>> the IRC while at the same time talking about me with male pronouns
>>> (he/his) - he knows better, so I took this as targeted harassment,
or
>>> at the very least disingenuous
passive aggressive participation in
the
>>> trolling games that have been going
on lately. He 's apologized to
me
>>> in private since then but I just
want to register that joking about
>>> hackerspace wars can be fun, but actually gaslighting each other is
>>> NOT fun. It can be scary, intimidating, and seriously compromise the
>>> accessibility and diversity of our community.
>>>
>>> As to the substance, he 's absolutely right that we have op
privileges,
>>> but this obscures a few things. For
technical background, I
encourage
>>> people to read about the difference
between +F and +o. Your best
guide
>>> will be logging onto freenode and
typing: "/msg chanserv help flags"
>>> but more general guides are online:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC#Modes
>>> https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
>>>
>>> There 've been conflicts over how to run the channel. Namely:
>>>
>>> 1) The person with +F has used his privileges to override the
>>> decisions of those with only +o, at several times unquieting people
>>> we 've quieted. The contexts for these were admittedly
controversial
>>> and fall on ideological fault lines
over how to run an IRC channel
in
>>> general, so I agree 100% with
Andrew that a clear IRC policy is the
>>> way to go. For the record, this has been mostly about using
oppressive
>>> slurs, and my position has been not
to tolerate them very much. We
>>> happen to have in our community a person who makes it his life 's
work
>>> to push peoples ' buttons with
slurs, and happened to be doing
that IN
>>> the IRC channel. He 'd also
made a habit of typing anatomical
words at
>>> random times. Form your own
opinions. Again, the solution to this
may
>>> be more about having a clear
policy, than who enforces it.
>>>
>>> 2) The person with +F has acted in bad faith. He flooded the channel
>>> with ascii art of an ejaculating swastika and claimed it was an
>>> "accident", which would be a no-brainer kban in most any channel.
When
>>> asked to share +F with other
people, his response was to vandalize
the
>>> Sudoroom wiki to say he is the
"leader" (
>>> http://sudoroom.org/wiki/Community_Structure ). In the meantime, he
>>> shares +F with a friend of his who hadn 't been to Sudoroom since
>>> summer 2012 and didn 't even seem to know anybody 's name. They
'd also
>>> set the +S (successor) flag for a
person who is emphatically NOT a
>>> Sudoroom member and has even publically criticized Sudoroom. This
sent
>>> a clear message to the rest of us
that we were dealing with people
who
>>> saw us as a joke; didn 't
respect our community; and that there was
>>> little we could do about it in the short term. That mistrust has
>>> colored all of the talk over IRC privileges since then, and has only
>>> escalated since these same people came to our 1/16 meeting and made
it
>>> significantly longer (by
complaining about the meeting being long!),
>>> and also filled our meeting agenda notes with things like
"fuck",
>>> "poop" and "this is why you guys never hack anything".
>>>
>>> I 'm not bitter or anything, just trying to bring out some of the
>>> subtext here for those not following why things are happening the
way
>>> they are.
>>>
>>> I think the best formulation for IRC rules that everyone can agree
on
>>> would be something like: we want
the IRC channel to accurately
reflect
>>> the atmosphere at the physical
sudoroom space. To me, that nicely
>>> encompasses all the many behavioral problems and general do 's and
>>> don 'ts. Honestly the room itself has rarely had the kind of
problems
>>> the channel has, because people
tend to be a lot more decent to each
>>> other face to face, and because it self-selects for people who care
>>> about the community.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org mailto:
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss 
30 Jan
30 Jan
11:32 p.m.
New subject: IRC, and founders and bots
Agreed. Or, as more specifically seems to be the case RE the decision
reached tonight, 3 or 4 founderS, the majority of the on-duty and
alternates of whom the community trusts (and implicitly also trusts to
manage semi-automation via bots privileged with ops). That's why I
thought three rather than the voted four
founder-status-approved-by-sudoconsensus sudo-natural-person founders
AKA humans might make it clearer, w/r/t theoretical/possible 2:2 ties.
On 1/30/13 3:55 PM, Jenny Ryan wrote:
When founder status has been abused to the point of
revoking the
decisions of operators, behaving inappropriately with insulting
symbols, and intimidating one of our most awesomely proactive members
(which Yardena described most acutely and all of which I have been
witness to), then it would seem Founder status is indeed required to
be held by someone the community trusts.
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net <http://jennyryan.net/>
http://thepyre.org <http://thepyre.org/>
http://thevirtualcampfire.org <http://thevirtualcampfire.org/>
http://technomadic.tumblr.com <http://technomadic.tumblr.com/>
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:47 PM, Mischa Spiegelmock
<thadwooster(a)gmail.com <mailto:thadwooster@gmail.com>> wrote:
Founder status is not required to "filter" the content of the channel
On Jan 30, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Jae Kwon wrote:
Here's a proposal.
Assume that #sudoroom on FreeNode should be officially operated
by SudoRoom
the collective. [assumption 1]
Assume that FreeNode will force the transfer of
+F to
whoever/whatever SudoRoom decides. [assumption 2]
Assume that SudoRoom agrees that the contents of
#sudoroom
should be filtered for the purpose of SafeSpace. [assumption 3]
Then I suggest we:
(0) test the assumptions first.
(a) vote on whether +F should be reassigned, and if so,
(b) vote to whom +F should go, where candidates are suggested --
real bot
implementations included.
On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:26 PM, hol(a)gaskill.com
<mailto:hol@gaskill.com>
wrote:
> bumping rachel's sentiment here. yardena's note here was the
clearest explanation I've seen, as someone who doesn't really get
on the IRC channel and who would like this information to get out
prior to the meeting so as to reduce meeting time.
>
>
> Jan 30, 2013 01:15:46 PM, rachelyra(a)gmail.com
<mailto:rachelyra@gmail.com> wrote:
> i think this reply is dismissive and it makes
me sadfaced.
>>
>> Yardena is talking about much deeper and more insidious, and
potentially
>> divisive, issues than typos or spelling.
If you think her
concerns are
>> boring, then you could easily ignore them
and stay silent
without being
>> dismissive and rude.
>>
>> Yardena did an awesome job of facilitating meetings for 6
straight
hours
>> last week... it seems to me like anyone
who enjoyed that
experience with
>> her might take a moment to give a damn
about her concerns.
>>
>> Multiple folks have suggested it would be good to have a clear IRC
>> policy. That seems like a good next step. Maybe a wiki page,
seeded
>> with Yardena 's suggestion here? I
am not active on the
channel so am
>> not sure if it makes sense for me to be
too involved in that
process...?
>>
>> R.
>>
>> On 1/30/2013 1:07 PM, Clarence Beeks wrote:
>>> Do you know why America is awesome? We have the time and
privilege and
>>> resources to argue
>>> over replacing a "Y" with a "J".
>>>
>>> I can 't wait for the next comet.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Yardena Cohen
yardenack(a)gmail.com <mailto:yardenack@gmail.com>
>>> mailto:yardenack@gmail.com
<mailto:yardenack@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Apparently the Sudo folk with admin privileges to the #sudoroom
>>> IRC channel are jealously resistant to sharing control,
>>>
>>>> This is not the case. Jordana and Tunabananas have operator
>>> privileges and can perform any sort of moderation they
desire.
If
>>> you have an issue with the content
of #sudoroom, creating a new
>>> channel will not solve that problem.
>>>
>>> I avoided replying to this right away, because I was too
angry
and
>>> creeped out over being called
"Jordana." He did this once
before in
>>> the IRC while at the same time
talking about me with male
pronouns
>>> (he/his) - he knows better, so I
took this as targeted
harassment, or
>>> at the very least disingenuous
passive aggressive
participation in the
>>> trolling games that have been going
on lately. He 's
apologized to me
>>> in private since then but I just
want to register that
joking about
>>> hackerspace wars can be fun, but
actually gaslighting each
other is
>>> NOT fun. It can be scary,
intimidating, and seriously
compromise the
>>> accessibility and diversity of our
community.
>>>
>>> As to the substance, he 's absolutely right that we have
op
privileges,
>>> but this obscures a few things. For
technical background, I
encourage
>>> people to read about the difference
between +F and +o. Your
best guide
>>> will be logging onto freenode and
typing: "/msg chanserv
help flags"
>>> but more general guides are
online:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC#Modes
>>> https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml
>>>
>>> There 've been conflicts over how to run the channel. Namely:
>>>
>>> 1) The person with +F has used his privileges to override the
>>> decisions of those with only +o, at several times
unquieting
people
>>> we 've quieted. The contexts
for these were admittedly
controversial
>>> and fall on ideological fault lines
over how to run an IRC
channel in
>>> general, so I agree 100% with
Andrew that a clear IRC
policy is the
>>> way to go. For the record, this has
been mostly about using
oppressive
>>> slurs, and my position has been not
to tolerate them very
much. We
>>> happen to have in our community a
person who makes it his
life 's work
>>> to push peoples ' buttons with
slurs, and happened to be
doing that IN
>>> the IRC channel. He 'd also
made a habit of typing
anatomical words at
>>> random times. Form your own
opinions. Again, the solution
to this may
>>> be more about having a clear
policy, than who enforces it.
>>>
>>> 2) The person with +F has acted in bad faith. He flooded
the
channel
>>> with ascii art of an ejaculating
swastika and claimed it was an
>>> "accident", which would be a no-brainer kban in most any
channel. When
>>> asked to share +F with other
people, his response was to
vandalize the
>>> Sudoroom wiki to say he is the
"leader" (
>>> http://sudoroom.org/wiki/Community_Structure ). In the
meantime,
he
>>> shares +F with a friend of his who
hadn 't been to
Sudoroom since
>>> summer 2012 and didn 't even
seem to know anybody 's
name. They 'd also
>>> set the +S (successor) flag for a
person who is
emphatically NOT a
>>> Sudoroom member and has even
publically criticized
Sudoroom. This sent
>>> a clear message to the rest of us
that we were dealing with
people who
>>> saw us as a joke; didn 't
respect our community; and that
there was
>>> little we could do about it in the
short term. That
mistrust has
>>> colored all of the talk over IRC
privileges since then, and
has only
>>> escalated since these same people
came to our 1/16 meeting
and made it
>>> significantly longer (by
complaining about the meeting
being long!),
>>> and also filled our meeting agenda
notes with things like
"fuck",
>>> "poop" and "this is
why you guys never hack anything".
>>>
>>> I 'm not bitter or anything, just trying to bring out some
of the
>>> subtext here for those not
following why things are
happening the way
>>> they are.
>>>
>>> I think the best formulation for IRC rules that everyone
can
agree on
>>> would be something like: we want
the IRC channel to
accurately reflect
>>> the atmosphere at the physical
sudoroom space. To me, that
nicely
>>> encompasses all the many behavioral
problems and general do
's and
>>> don 'ts. Honestly the room
itself has rarely had the kind
of problems
>>> the channel has, because people
tend to be a lot more
decent to each
>>> other face to face, and because it
self-selects for people
who care
>>> about the community.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>>
>>>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
>>>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
>>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
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sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss 
31 Jan
31 Jan
12:07 a.m.
New subject: Sudo Space Program: Intro/Refresher to Rocketry
Hi Folks,
We will be having a session next Tuesday from 5:30 to 7PM going over some basics of
rocketry. This could be a regular thing, or we could go ahead and fork it into specific
projects and catch people up on the fly. I know there are a number of y'all who have
had experience with rockets in childhood so I would like to address the actual groundwork
of thrust, drag, stability, propulsion, and recovery then pretty quickly move into
exploring ideas that people would be interested in working on as a group or independently
within sudo room. All are invited to come share their interest, experience, and tales of
successful launches or catastrophic failures, on and off the pad. Over the course of the
evening, I would like us to:
-Get everyone caught up on the basics of model rocketry and briefly touch on orbital
mechanics
-Actually build at least one rocket
-Schedule a small launch for sometime in February
I know enough of the basic stuff to get us going, but if we have any rocket
scientists/engineers this would be a good time to come out of the woodwork :)
Also, we have another (previously scheduled) meeting in the facility at 7 so we will need
to be mindful of their space requirements when that time comes.
Onward to the heavens,
Hol
3:27 p.m.
New subject: Sudo Space Program: Intro/Refresher to Rocketry
Rockets! I got it on my calendar.
On Jan 31, 2013, at 12:07 AM, hol(a)gaskill.com wrote:
Hi Folks,
We will be having a session next Tuesday from 5:30 to 7PM going over some basics of
rocketry. This could be a regular thing, or we could go ahead and fork it into specific
projects and catch people up on the fly. I know there are a number of y'all who have
had experience with rockets in childhood so I would like to address the actual groundwork
of thrust, drag, stability, propulsion, and recovery then pretty quickly move into
exploring ideas that people would be interested in working on as a group or independently
within sudo room. All are invited to come share their interest, experience, and tales of
successful launches or catastrophic failures, on and off the pad. Over the course of the
evening, I would like us to:
-Get everyone caught up on the basics of model rocketry and briefly touch on orbital
mechanics
-Actually build at least one rocket
-Schedule a small launch for sometime in February
I know enough of the basic stuff to get us going, but if we have any rocket
scientists/engineers this would be a good time to come out of the woodwork :)
Also, we have another (previously scheduled) meeting in the facility at 7 so we will need
to be mindful of their space requirements when that time comes.
Onward to the heavens,
Hol
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
5:55 p.m.
New subject: Sudo Space Program: Intro/Refresher to Rocketry
Sounds like fun. I will try to make it, but might have a conflict.
-steve
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Jae Kwon <jkwon.work(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Rockets! I got it on my calendar.
On Jan 31, 2013, at 12:07 AM, hol(a)gaskill.com wrote:
--
-steve
Hi Folks,
We will be having a session next Tuesday from 5:30 to 7PM going over
some basics
of rocketry. This could be a regular thing, or we could go
ahead and fork it into specific projects and catch people up on the fly. I
know there are a number of y'all who have had experience with rockets in
childhood so I would like to address the actual groundwork of thrust, drag,
stability, propulsion, and recovery then pretty quickly move into exploring
ideas that people would be interested in working on as a group or
independently within sudo room. All are invited to come share their
interest, experience, and tales of successful launches or catastrophic
failures, on and off the pad. Over the course of the evening, I would like
us to:
-Get everyone caught up on the basics of model rocketry and briefly
touch on
orbital mechanics
-Actually build at least one rocket
-Schedule a small launch for sometime in February
I know enough of the basic stuff to get us going, but if we have any
rocket
scientists/engineers this would be a good time to come out of the
woodwork :)
Also, we have another (previously scheduled) meeting in the facility at
7 so we
will need to be mindful of their space requirements when that time
comes.
Onward to the heavens,
Hol
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
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http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
4110
days inactive
4112
days old
4 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
d'É-Aatenhejm -
hol＠gaskill.com -
Jae Kwon -
Jenny Ryan -
Steve Berl