Re: [sudo-discuss] Pinnacle of cultural diversity

To: Cc: Sudo Room Discussion List &lt;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt; Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 09:20:31 -0700 Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Pinnacle of cultural diversity wow, i love this list... thank you sooooo much for speaking up, patrick and marina; it isn't negative to be honest. yes, we want to celebrate that the foundations of sudo room resist sexism and value "diversity" (no small thing!)... but yes we have to do more, we always have to do more. as white individuals we need to take responsibility to educate ourselves and listen to people's experiences without defense. as organizations... well, it's very slippery because groups of white people are actually the foundation of racial oppression. people are killed, neighborhoods destroyed, land + animals + environment ruined so that white people can be together. how does a group of mostly white people challenge their own entitlement to exist --- especially when dealing with their own legal, economic, and group oppression (heterosexism, ableism, transphobia, ageism) issues? not trying to paint a bleak picture. absolutely there are things we can and must do. but along the way we need to be doing the difficult work of changing our own minds, and seeing that even the mechanisms we use for anti-oppression work can be riddled with the language and thought process and values of the oppressor. example: the term "women of color" (which along w/ "people of color" i probly use too much) was originally a political designation (see video <http://youtu.be/82vl34mi4Iw> and learn!) and is now being used far too often as a racial descriptor. okay i think about this stuff all day every day. many more thoughts on this. so happy to see the discussion here. as far as ideas on what to do, here is a list i worked on for BACE (bay area community exchange). i feel hypocritical in sharing this because we haven't been doing any of these things as an organization. i do still feel very strongly that this is the direction we need to go. https://docs.google.com/document/d/15nxepE-LC_UUfoa-hViPTO7sxBBVsOHYxvVp29N… -amber On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 1:06 PM, Patrick Schmidt < psbschmidt(a)googlemail.com&gt; wrote: -- *Animator Mama You-Tube Channel<http://www.youtube.com/user/videocabulary/videos?view=0> * *Animator Mama on Tumblr <http://animatormama.tumblr.com/>* ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Marina Kukso &lt;marina.kukso(a)gmail.com&gt; To: Praveen Sinha &lt;dmhomee(a)gmail.com&gt; Cc: xander(a)ligandal.com, dre(a)ligandal.com, sudo-discuss < sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt;gt;, lol-hackers < lol-hackers(a)googlegroups.com&gt;gt;, Juan Crispin Hernandez-Rosas < one_e_toe(a)yahoo.com&gt; Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 10:37:43 -0700 Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] [lol-hackers] foundational bio / hacking TIL this sat hi all, just a reminder that the foundational biohacking TIL is happening today at 2. see you soon, marina On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Praveen Sinha &lt;dmhomee(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Andrew &lt;andrew(a)roshambomedia.com&gt; To: Eddan Katz &lt;eddan(a)clear.net&gt; Cc: Yardena Cohen &lt;yardenack(a)gmail.com&gt;om>, &quot;liberty(a)libertymadison.com&quot; < liberty(a)libertymadison.com&gt;gt;, &quot;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&quot; < sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt; Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 12:09:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Incident Saturday We have to find out what the building is worth, then someone has to see how big of a loan we could get as a group (we'd need a tax structure). Once we find that out we can crowd source for the deposit and first months mortgage. It's within the realm of possibility, but would require Sudo Room to become a land owner and a state/federally recognized entity (like an LLC) with people on the board having good credit. Correct me if I'm wrong here. --Andrew On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Eddan Katz &lt;eddan(a)clear.net&gt; wrote: -- ------- Andrew Lowe Cell: 831-332-2507 http://roshambomedia.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Eddan Katz &lt;eddan(a)clear.net&gt; To: Andrew &lt;andrew(a)roshambomedia.com&gt; Cc: Yardena Cohen &lt;yardenack(a)gmail.com&gt;om>, &quot;liberty(a)libertymadison.com&quot; < liberty(a)libertymadison.com&gt;gt;, &quot;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&quot; < sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt; Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 13:09:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Incident Saturday or it could be structured as a co-op real estate deal. or an equity crowd funded (starting 9/28) distribution of shares. Sudo Room can remain what it is. Sudo Co-op, for example, can be the entity with title to the property. sent from eddan.com On Sep 14, 2013, at 12:09 PM, Andrew &lt;andrew(a)roshambomedia.com&gt; wrote: We have to find out what the building is worth, then someone has to see how big of a loan we could get as a group (we'd need a tax structure). Once we find that out we can crowd source for the deposit and first months mortgage. It's within the realm of possibility, but would require Sudo Room to become a land owner and a state/federally recognized entity (like an LLC) with people on the board having good credit. Correct me if I'm wrong here. --Andrew On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Eddan Katz &lt;eddan(a)clear.net&gt; wrote: -- ------- Andrew Lowe Cell: 831-332-2507 http://roshambomedia.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Anthony Di Franco &lt;di.franco(a)gmail.com&gt; To: Eddan Katz &lt;eddan(a)clear.net&gt; Cc: Yardena Cohen &lt;yardenack(a)gmail.com&gt;om>, &quot;liberty(a)libertymadison.com&quot; < liberty(a)libertymadison.com&gt;gt;, &quot;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&quot; < sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt; Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 13:14:49 -0700 Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Incident Saturday If it's a California direct public offering, it can be done as equity already. See people's community market in west Oakland. On Sep 14, 2013 1:09 PM, "Eddan Katz" &lt;eddan(a)clear.net&gt; wrote: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Marina Kukso &lt;marina.kukso(a)gmail.com&gt; To: &quot;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&quot; &lt;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt; Cc: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 13:59:37 -0700 Subject: [sudo-discuss] oakland nights live tonight at sudo room hi all, oakland nights live will be at sudo room tonight. do enjoy. there will hopefully be lots of new people! here's the event link: https://www.facebook.com/events/173230236198036/ - marina ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Eddan Katz &lt;eddan(a)clear.net&gt; To: Anthony Di Franco &lt;di.franco(a)gmail.com&gt; Cc: Yardena Cohen &lt;yardenack(a)gmail.com&gt;om>, &quot;liberty(a)libertymadison.com&quot; < liberty(a)libertymadison.com&gt;gt;, &quot;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&quot; < sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt; Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:34:26 -0700 Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Incident Saturday True. Though there is approx. $25,000 in legal fees in preparation for the CA DPO. Cutting Edge Capital (Jenny Kassan) did the People's Community Market. Not sure how the comparison will stack up, but it's problematic that the DPO involves getting the $25K upfront, in order to raise the DPO money. Either way, it seems to me like an institutional membership structure might make it a lot more feasible (i.e., Bay Area Public School, Roshambo Media, Sound Room, Pan Theater, Pan Theatre, Community Democracy Project, Oakland Wiki, etc. etc.). sent from eddan.com On Sep 14, 2013, at 1:14 PM, Anthony Di Franco &lt;di.franco(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: If it's a California direct public offering, it can be done as equity already. See people's community market in west Oakland. On Sep 14, 2013 1:09 PM, "Eddan Katz" &lt;eddan(a)clear.net&gt; wrote: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Marina Kukso &lt;marina.kukso(a)gmail.com&gt; To: &quot;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&quot; &lt;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt; Cc: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 14:58:02 -0700 Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] defining our membership: notes, next steps, and what's at stake hey all, in case the wiki link didn't work for you because of the period at the end, the correct link is: https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Sudo_room/membership - marina On Thu, Sep 12, 2013 at 3:49 AM, Marina Kukso &lt;marina.kukso(a)gmail.com&gt;wrote;wrote: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jake &lt;jake(a)spaz.org&gt; To: sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org, marina.kukso(a)gmail.com Cc: Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 15:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] intertwinkles collaborative decisionmaking tool I was not able to sign in. I went to the link you posted and it asked me to sign in. No invitation to create a new account. So i put my email address and it asked me to verify it (which i did) and then it gave the following cryptic error message: Permission Denied Sorry about that. Are you signed in as the right user? If we screwed up, please let us know what happened. Feedback & Support Marina wrote: are you guys able to sign up for the sudo room group? https://intertwinkles.org/**groups/show/sudo-room/<https://intertwinkles… not sure if i have to invite people or if you can just ask to join. - marina 4 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jake &lt;jake(a)spaz.org&gt; To: marina.kukso(a)gmail.com, sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org Cc: Jake Walters &lt;jake(a)spaz.org&gt; Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2013 16:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [sudo-discuss] jake's idea for sudoroom membership structure -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 i confess i have no idea how to properly edit the membership wiki to add my ideas. So i will just type them here, and maybe someone can help me put them into the wiki properly. Sudo room/membership Do we have it? I think sudoroom does not currently have a membership structure in place. We are currently existing in a (most of the time) benevolent anarchy, resulting from equal parts luck, hard work by caring people, and security by obscurity. I think we SHOULD have membership, which is clearly defined and binary (either you are a member in good standing, or a nonmember for whatever reason). There should be a list of members which can be publicly accessed, with enough information about each member that they can be identified by any member (a description or picture provided by the member themselves) since we don't all "know" each other. I think membership should be something that is in exchange for ONGOING contribution to the community, as defined (continually) by the membership, on a person by person basis. For example, $10 per month might be accepted by one person as sufficient, but another person might be required to pay $40 per month. Or the group can decide that a persons offer to "clear and sweep the floor once a week" is sufficient. Also the community should be able to refuse someone's membership, even if they are a current member who has been making their required contribution. Also the community should be able to change the requirement from a person based on information from them or anyone, to a higher or lower or different requirement. The community should be able to declare that a person has not fulfilled their requirement and is, until they return to that requirement, temporarily not a member. Does it [membership] confer special privelages? I think that membership should confer special privelages including access to the space even if it is closed, for any community-approved uses. A member can be there when no one else is there if they want to be. Also while anyone can participate in discussions at meetings, only members can vote (or block consensus items). I think a member should be able to "sponsor" a nonmember (or multiple of them) WHILE they are present in the space. This way nonmembers can use the space any time a member who supports them is present, which should be easy for nonmembers who use the space properly in a cooperative way. And for all nonmembers wanting to use the space, their sponsor can help them use the space properly. I think that nonmembers should be nominally granted up to 24 added-up hours of access to the space without a specific sponsor. This part is subtle and I urge people to think about the total effect of this "pseudo policy" before objecting. If a nonmember behaves badly before they have used up 24 hours they can be asked to leave by a member, of course. And if a nonmember behaves well it is likely that no one will even point out when their "24 hours" appears to have expired. are there expectations of members, do they have responsibilities? I think that all members should promise not to leave the space open without a member present. This means that when an awesome nonmember is working on a project and you're the last member and you want to leave, you have to decide between staying to help them or asking them to return when the space is open. It is also a good time to remind them that by contributing in a community-approved way, they can have 24-7 access. One reason for members making this promise to each other is because members have accountability to one another, and were approved at a meeting, and can be contacted with questions by other members, and can be trusted. However that trust does not extend to strangers and we must respect the process of meetings and accountability when we are not present to act as an advocate or translator for a nonmember we want to support. Some practical reasons for not allowing nonmembers in the space alone include security of property and materials, projects and tools. But also, the organization of the space and functionality of it is tied to human effort to make it a usable space. People who are members are contributors to the space in one way or another, and they contribute toward the usability of the space. It isn't fair to our fellow contributors to allow others to use and take from that space when we ourselves are not willing to supervise our own guests' use of the space. How do you become a member? People who want to become a member of the space must meet members of the space and learn about membership and the space. They need to announce to the membership, through the discuss list, that they want to become a member and answer responses to their post so that members who might come to a meeting will be satisfied with their reasons for wanting to join. Also, use of the mailinglist demonstrates a basic ability to communicate and be accountable to other members in case they are accepted. After making their desires known, they will come to meetings to get to know people, and announce that they would like to become a member. They can discuss with the group what kind of contribution they feel comfortable making, based on their income or free time levels, and in the case of nonmonetary contributions, how they propose their contributions be tracked (could be an email declaring that they cleaned the space at 3PM today and saw certain members there who saw it happen) I think that we should not do like noisebridge and expect a secret discussion, or expect a specific timeline for consideration of membership. If a person makes their bid for membership on the list and shows up to the nearest meeting after that, they should not expect to achieve membership for at least another week while the possiblity for objections is there. At their first meeting the announcement having been made, one week should be sufficient time for the membership to bring out any uncertainties. If a person is a member of the space, they should not have any less accountability to the space than a nonmember (on the contrary). This means that a member can be discussed at a meeting for questionable behavior and if necessary, have their membership revoked by the group. Consensus Minus One would be nice for this purpose but is too limiting in practice, because we hackers tend to be contrary and side with the underdog to a fault. If a large portion of the membership agrees that a person is not a good fit for the space, the minority should not ask them to put aside their discomfort without convincing them of the reasons in dialogue. Why is this necessary? As I said in the beginning, i feel that sudoroom is riding on a streak of luck and hard work at the moment, and that we can't expect this to continue in the face of entropy. We already have and will continue to see abuse of the space by people who have no feelings of accountability, and our members have no recourse or policy to address anything like that. I know from experience what results from this, and it is sad. The failure of Sudoroom would not be a sufficiently educational experience to justify allowing it to happen, when the lessons we would learn have been offered so many times in other places. We talk about the challenge of diversity in a hackerspace like ours. One thing we don't seek is diversity of people who are good and bad for what we're trying to do. We do not invite drug dealers to sudoroom to sell meth to people from the street outside, even though it would please them greatly if they could use our space. We don't invite meth addicts to browse our hacking materials shelves to find copper and aluminum to recycle so they can buy more drugs. We also should not invite people to the space who are unwilling to behave in a way that is respectful to the members and guests whose interests we share, and want to share. That means that, despite our aversion to exclusion, we need to choose between excluding some or excluding others. For example, if we refuse abusive or disrespectful behavior and those who insist on it, we create an accessible space for people who avoid that behavior. If we maintain an atmosphere of cooperation and care for each other and the hardware that is our space, we invite people from all backgrounds who seek to do the same things. On the other hand, if we refuse this responsibility, we allow the tone to be set by those with the loudest voice, and the least to lose, and the quiet and self-respecting people will go elsewhere. I ask that we look to the future to envision the challenges we can expect as we continue to grow and do more awesome things, and think about what we hope to achieve. That is why we need to protect ourselves, each other, and our hackerspace, from complacency and entropy as best we can. well, I feel that i have said more than enough about it for now, but if anyone has opinions on this i look forward to continuing the discussion. - -jake _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss