5 May
2013
5 May
'13
11:43 p.m.
No that's absurd. There are lots of reasons ppl in relationships don't have
sex or don't have it much and ways single people can, although it is easier
if you have a partner.
Also, comparing options means you must have them - if you don't have access
to sex then you don't have access to it. Comparing it to masturbation, or
comparing it to camping, or to pie, or to music, it's moot.
The whole conversation hinges on the notion that you have access to both,
which I think more people do than realize it.
On May 5, 2013 10:00 PM, "GtwoG PublicOhOne" <g2g-public01(a)att.net>
wrote:
Sonja, Andrew, Et. Al.-
So now the implicit assumption goes explicit:
"Masturbation is a thing too thoroughly inferior to sex to be classed with
it."
The necessary and inevitable corollary to that is, "Single people are
thoroughly inferior to coupled people." Care to argue that point?
It wasn't long ago that us queerz were also subjected to "Homosexual sex
is a thing thoroughly inferior to heterosexual sex."
Inferior by way of "immoral," and for the longest time (and still, in many
places), illegal. In a wide swath of the world, I can go to prison for who
I love, and in a slightly less wide swath of the world, I can get beheaded
in the public square or hanged by the neck at the end of a crane borrowed
from the Public Works Department (as is the custom in Iran, 16-year-old
queer guys included, go search BBC.com for that story).
Comparisons based on assertions of one's own superiority and others'
inferiority, are the last refuge of the will-to-power mentality that is
exploitative, oppressive, and ultimately insecure of its own niche in the
human social ecosystem.
In any ontological sense, arguements about the superiority and inferiority
of personal matters of taste among consenting adults, are groundless,
pointless, and ultimately meaningless.
Would anyone care to argue whether rock is better than rap or vice-versa,
or whether jazz is better than country & western or vice-versa, or whether
playing a piano, harmonica, guitar, saxophone, or banjo is better? Any
such assertion of "better" (and its necessary corollary, "worse"),
is
nothing more than a linguistic confound of the phrase "I prefer."
I prefer music X, sexuality Y, and pizza with Z on it.
I have no need to prove to anyone, that any of those things are "better
than" music Q, sexuality R, and pizza with S on it. And I will fight for
the right to full equality among people who prefer music X or Q, sexuality
Y or R, and pizza with Z or S on it.
It will be a great day when people stop seeking to dominate each other
over matters of personal choice and personal taste. It will be an even
better day when people stop seeking to dominate each other altogether,
aside from consenting adult dom/sub play;-)
-G.
=====
On 13-05-05-Sun 12:29 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
mmm according to conservative readings of the bible, all
non-reproductive sex is sinful. masturbating and pulling out are both sins,
and in that way equivalent. So if you want to throw around the
'puritanical' label, it would have to stick to the idea that masturbation
and sex are interchangeable, and not the idea they they are two pretty
different types of activities.
Other women should pipe up here, but the only people who have ever tried
to tell me that "masturbation is a type of sex" have been men. No,
masturbation is not sex. In the same way that vitamin pills are not food.
Masturbation is a thing too thoroughly inferior to sex to be classed with
it. I guess, from a male pleasure point of view, they are equivalent, if
you cum from sex or you cum from jerking off, you cum, who cares, but they
are not equivalent from your gf's pov. I would 1000% prefer my partner to
cum from fucking me than from jerking off. I get nothing out of him jerking
off, if he fucks me I will almost surely cum.
The idea that we should make more porn (for women!) has always struck me
as an example of men thinking women should be more like men. Maybe women
aren't that into porn, not because there's not that much porn that women
like, but because porn is lame and boring. Maybe instead of women going
against their natures and learning to enjoy passively watching other people
have sex, men should go against their natures and learn to enjoy closing
the laptop, picking up the phone, waiting 15 minutes for your girl to come
over, and then fucking her.
On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 1:58 AM, GtwoG PublicOhOne <g2g-public01(a)att.net>wrote;wrote:
Sonja, Andrew, and Yo's-
Whoa there! All this about "masturbation replacing sex" reinforces an
artificial duality that's ultimately founded in puritanism, in which
masturbation may not be "sinful" but it's "not real sex."
To paraphrase an old Campbell's Soup ad, "It's Sex for One and that one
is you!"
What I personally find bizarre as hell, is the degree to which our
culture is so couple-normative, and the degree to which sexual coupling is
normalized and expected as the primary axis on which lifetime relationships
are based. This when there's a near-infinite range of potential upon which
humans could base their relationships.
Have you ever seen a couple that appeared to you to be either overtly
dysfunctional or just plain weird in the manner of "what the hell could
s/he possibly see in him/her?!" The answer usually turns out to be "in
bed," as in: they may be totally incompatible in all other ways, but they
have some unique kink in common, or just screw like mad weasels, and
apparently that's enough to keep them together.
Under all of this is the genetic competition algorithm, that dates back
to bacteria but seems remarkably incapable of producing humans with the
intelligence needed to overcome war, climate change, and all the other
forces of our own making that threaten our near-extinction. In an era
where "the cybernetically-enhanced human" is a common cultural meme, surely
we can do better!
Anyone who thinks that their precious genes are something special (or
that there is any such thing as a superior race), is in for a rude
awakening: we share well over 99% of our genome with chimpanzees and
bonobos. Selfish genes helped us get from our birth as a species to the
point where our survival was assured. Since that time we have
overpopulated and overconsumed the planet, threatening our own continued
existence within our lifetimes.
It's time to move beyond obedience to algorithms that no longer serve
us.
-G.
======
On 13-05-05-Sun 1:22 AM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
That study says nothing about whether masturbation does or doesn't
replace sex. It says that teens who masturbate more have more sex, which
makes perfect sense. These are things that you expect to see together, like
umbrellas and rubber boots, but you would never say that the umbrella
caused the boots, or vice versa. And this study says nothing about whether
sex causes masturbation or the other way around.
It also doesn't say anything about masturbation with or without porn
(although I wish it did).
Masturbation is all well and good, of course, but that's not sufficient
to explain why porn is well and good.
I'm super curious. I can't experimentally not watch porn and see what
happens because I already don't, but if any of you do, then you will be
able to tell me what you would be missing.
On May 5, 2013 12:43 AM, "Andrew" <andrew(a)roshambomedia.com> wrote:
Sonja,
I disagree with your views on masturbation. For one, I don't think that
masturbation causes people to have less sex. Here's a study a found by
googling I'm sure there is more data to back up the fact that masturbation
does not reduce the amount of sex someone is having.
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/womens-health/articles/2…
It is also just, in general a healthy practice.
second, I can masturbate without porn, and with porn (as can most
people).
I really believe that part of being sex positive is also being
accepting of masturbation as natural and healthy.
--Andrew
On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Yeah .... so what if you didn't have
anything, and you couldn't
concentrate. Would you give up? Maybe the first day. Maybe even the 2nd
day, but eventually you would be able to masterbate on your own I bet.
I'm a girl and never encountered very much porn I liked at all. I
*guess* a solution could be to make porn a girl would like, but my solution
was to have sex instead, which has been overall great. It's forced me to
get in contact, and stay in contact, with people I otherwise wouldn't have.
Making porn that girls like, so they can join men in having an activity
that allows them to have less sex, seems antisocial and a step backwards.
Yeah the more I think about this the more absurd it seems that a crowd
that is interested in expanding the audience for porn would overlap with a
'do-acracy' hackerspace crowd. Watching porn is watching, not doing.
On May 4, 2013 7:53 PM, "Andrew" <andrew(a)roshambomedia.com> wrote:
> People want porn for somthing easy to focus on while masturbating.
> Masturbating being a natural part of life. I also dont think that all
> people who can have sex with others, but don't , are doing so because they
> don't have the "skills"
> On May 4, 2013 7:20 PM, "Sonja Trauss" <sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> Or less representation of sex altogether. What does anyone need porn
>> for?
>> On May 4, 2013 7:10 PM, "Andrew" <andrew(a)vagabondballroom.com>
wrote:
>>
>>> When i ran an erotic event in oakland our crew made it a point to
>>> balence genders as much as possible. We had male and female co-hosts and
>>> male and female strippers.
>>>
>>> Also. Somthing to keep in mind is that there are more than two
>>> genders. In my mind objectification is not the issue. Representation is.
>>> Porn is mostly filmed from a hetero-cis-male perspective and because of
>>> that, taken as a whole, is exploitive. There is porn that fights this
>>> perspective and representation of sex and there needs to be more.
>>> On May 4, 2013 6:55 PM, "Sonja Trauss"
<sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can I get a link for this gonorreah story?
>>>> On May 4, 2013 6:42 PM, "GtwoG PublicOhOne"
<g2g-public01(a)att.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Romy & Yo's-
>>>>>
>>>>> Re. "womens' bodies with their faces cut off."
>>>>>
>>>>> Wow. Thanks for pointing that out. I never noticed that before
>>>>> (OTOH
>>>>> attempts to do "sexy" in advertising generally don't
get my
>>>>> attention),
>>>>> but I vaguely recall seeing ads like that somewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree, a torso minus a face is depersonalizing and objectifying
>>>>> as
>>>>> hell, unless there's a very good reason for taking a photo that
way
>>>>> (e.g. medical contexts). Being looked at "that way"
produces the
>>>>> creepy
>>>>> feeling that the looker's intentions are non-consensual.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only borderline-legit reason I could see for doing it in
>>>>> clothing
>>>>> ads is, "we want you to imagine yourself wearing this, and we
>>>>> don't want
>>>>> to risk putting you off by showing a face that's substantially
>>>>> different
>>>>> to yours, so imagine your face on this person's body." But
it
>>>>> would be
>>>>> foolish to think that's what's intended every time that
>>>>> photographic
>>>>> method is used.
>>>>>
>>>>> This brings up the question of what people find sexy in
>>>>> photography.
>>>>> For me (gay male), a photo minus a face is a non-starter:
there's
>>>>> no cue
>>>>> for communication with the person. Nudes in general don't do it
>>>>> either:
>>>>> all the usual contextual cues as to someone's personality are
>>>>> missing,
>>>>> so why would I even begin to imagine being in an intimate context
>>>>> with
>>>>> someone I don't really know? I've always felt that way but
now we
>>>>> have
>>>>> the HIV pandemic to reinforce it: in general it's not a good
idea
>>>>> to get
>>>>> intimate with someone you don't know very well, because the
outcome
>>>>> could be a life-threatening illness.
>>>>>
>>>>> For that matter, now that massively-drug-resistant gonorrhea is
>>>>> loose in
>>>>> the USA, which is hella' easier to catch than HIV and can kill
you
>>>>> in a
>>>>> matter of days through a raging bacterial infection, it's
probably
>>>>> a
>>>>> darn good idea for everyone to "get smart & play safe"
ALL the
>>>>> time,
>>>>> zero exceptions, even more so than with HIV. In which case
>>>>> photography
>>>>> that portrays an objectified sexuality without communications
>>>>> isn't just
>>>>> gross and exploitative, it's a public health hazard that
reinforces
>>>>> attitudes that put people at risk for their lives.
>>>>>
>>>>> -G.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =====
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 13-05-04-Sat 10:34 AM, Romy Snowyla wrote:
>>>>> > It's interesting to me how porn a
>>>>> > Nd erotica always advertise with women's bodies with their
faces
>>>>> cut off
>>>>> > American apparel digs this etc
>>>>> > Lots of art theory discusses this
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I would love for any Sudo room event to break the mold and show
>>>>> men's bodies in any erotic theme as well ... Also would love to
see the
>>>>> male body as the focus of any erotic film or dance to balance out
the
>>>>> Imbalance and unnatural obsession with t and a we see on the porn
industry
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Sent from my iPad
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
--
-------
Andrew Lowe
Cell: 831-332-2507
http://roshambomedia.com