Re: [sudo-discuss] IRC

This is a bit misleading, anyone with +o can override anyone else with +o. Including banning / unbanning / filtering decisions / etc. On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Jae Kwon <jkwon.work(a)gmail.com> wrote: > From the thread, it seems that Founder status can override administrative decisions. Like root status, it has ultimate control. > So security of Founder status is required to correctly filter the channel. > > On Jan 30, 2013, at 3:47 PM, Mischa Spiegelmock <thadwooster(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Founder status is not required to "filter" the content of the channel >> >> On Jan 30, 2013, at 3:46 PM, Jae Kwon wrote: >> >>> Here's a proposal. >>> >>> Assume that #sudoroom on FreeNode should be officially operated by SudoRoom the collective. [assumption 1] >>> Assume that FreeNode will force the transfer of +F to whoever/whatever SudoRoom decides. [assumption 2] >>> Assume that SudoRoom agrees that the contents of #sudoroom should be filtered for the purpose of SafeSpace. [assumption 3] >>> >>> Then I suggest we: >>> >>> (0) test the assumptions first. >>> (a) vote on whether +F should be reassigned, and if so, >>> (b) vote to whom +F should go, where candidates are suggested -- real bot implementations included. >>> >>> On Jan 30, 2013, at 2:26 PM, hol(a)gaskill.com wrote: >>> >>>> bumping rachel's sentiment here. yardena's note here was the clearest explanation I've seen, as someone who doesn't really get on the IRC channel and who would like this information to get out prior to the meeting so as to reduce meeting time. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jan 30, 2013 01:15:46 PM, rachelyra(a)gmail.com wrote: >>>> i think this reply is dismissive and it makes me sadfaced. >>>>> >>>>> Yardena is talking about much deeper and more insidious, and potentially >>>>> divisive, issues than typos or spelling. If you think her concerns are >>>>> boring, then you could easily ignore them and stay silent without being >>>>> dismissive and rude. >>>>> >>>>> Yardena did an awesome job of facilitating meetings for 6 straight hours >>>>> last week... it seems to me like anyone who enjoyed that experience with >>>>> her might take a moment to give a damn about her concerns. >>>>> >>>>> Multiple folks have suggested it would be good to have a clear IRC >>>>> policy. That seems like a good next step. Maybe a wiki page, seeded >>>>> with Yardena 's suggestion here? I am not active on the channel so am >>>>> not sure if it makes sense for me to be too involved in that process...? >>>>> >>>>> R. >>>>> >>>>> On 1/30/2013 1:07 PM, Clarence Beeks wrote: >>>>>> Do you know why America is awesome? We have the time and privilege and >>>>>> resources to argue >>>>>> over replacing a "Y" with a "J". >>>>>> >>>>>> I can 't wait for the next comet. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 12:54 PM, Yardena Cohen yardenack(a)gmail.com >>>>>> mailto:yardenack@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Apparently the Sudo folk with admin privileges to the #sudoroom >>>>>> IRC channel are jealously resistant to sharing control, >>>>>> >>>>>>> This is not the case. Jordana and Tunabananas have operator >>>>>> privileges and can perform any sort of moderation they desire. If >>>>>> you have an issue with the content of #sudoroom, creating a new >>>>>> channel will not solve that problem. >>>>>> >>>>>> I avoided replying to this right away, because I was too angry and >>>>>> creeped out over being called "Jordana." He did this once before in >>>>>> the IRC while at the same time talking about me with male pronouns >>>>>> (he/his) - he knows better, so I took this as targeted harassment, or >>>>>> at the very least disingenuous passive aggressive participation in the >>>>>> trolling games that have been going on lately. He 's apologized to me >>>>>> in private since then but I just want to register that joking about >>>>>> hackerspace wars can be fun, but actually gaslighting each other is >>>>>> NOT fun. It can be scary, intimidating, and seriously compromise the >>>>>> accessibility and diversity of our community. >>>>>> >>>>>> As to the substance, he 's absolutely right that we have op privileges, >>>>>> but this obscures a few things. For technical background, I encourage >>>>>> people to read about the difference between +F and +o. Your best guide >>>>>> will be logging onto freenode and typing: "/msg chanserv help flags" >>>>>> but more general guides are online: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC#Modes >>>>>> https://freenode.net/using_the_network.shtml >>>>>> >>>>>> There 've been conflicts over how to run the channel. Namely: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1) The person with +F has used his privileges to override the >>>>>> decisions of those with only +o, at several times unquieting people >>>>>> we 've quieted. The contexts for these were admittedly controversial >>>>>> and fall on ideological fault lines over how to run an IRC channel in >>>>>> general, so I agree 100% with Andrew that a clear IRC policy is the >>>>>> way to go. For the record, this has been mostly about using oppressive >>>>>> slurs, and my position has been not to tolerate them very much. We >>>>>> happen to have in our community a person who makes it his life 's work >>>>>> to push peoples ' buttons with slurs, and happened to be doing that IN >>>>>> the IRC channel. He 'd also made a habit of typing anatomical words at >>>>>> random times. Form your own opinions. Again, the solution to this may >>>>>> be more about having a clear policy, than who enforces it. >>>>>> >>>>>> 2) The person with +F has acted in bad faith. He flooded the channel >>>>>> with ascii art of an ejaculating swastika and claimed it was an >>>>>> "accident", which would be a no-brainer kban in most any channel. When >>>>>> asked to share +F with other people, his response was to vandalize the >>>>>> Sudoroom wiki to say he is the "leader" ( >>>>>> http://sudoroom.org/wiki/Community_Structure ). In the meantime, he >>>>>> shares +F with a friend of his who hadn 't been to Sudoroom since >>>>>> summer 2012 and didn 't even seem to know anybody 's name. They 'd also >>>>>> set the +S (successor) flag for a person who is emphatically NOT a >>>>>> Sudoroom member and has even publically criticized Sudoroom. This sent >>>>>> a clear message to the rest of us that we were dealing with people who >>>>>> saw us as a joke; didn 't respect our community; and that there was >>>>>> little we could do about it in the short term. That mistrust has >>>>>> colored all of the talk over IRC privileges since then, and has only >>>>>> escalated since these same people came to our 1/16 meeting and made it >>>>>> significantly longer (by complaining about the meeting being long!), >>>>>> and also filled our meeting agenda notes with things like "fuck", >>>>>> "poop" and "this is why you guys never hack anything". >>>>>> >>>>>> I 'm not bitter or anything, just trying to bring out some of the >>>>>> subtext here for those not following why things are happening the way >>>>>> they are. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think the best formulation for IRC rules that everyone can agree on >>>>>> would be something like: we want the IRC channel to accurately reflect >>>>>> the atmosphere at the physical sudoroom space. To me, that nicely >>>>>> encompasses all the many behavioral problems and general do 's and >>>>>> don 'ts. Honestly the room itself has rarely had the kind of problems >>>>>> the channel has, because people tend to be a lot more decent to each >>>>>> other face to face, and because it self-selects for people who care >>>>>> about the community. >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss