14 Oct
2013
14 Oct
'13
2:11 p.m.
I don't want to assume ill intent of the teacher herself, and I don't want to
assume she is trying to mislead us. I think that the avenues of funding are extremely
limited for Oakland's public schools, and meanwhile the USAF and Northrop Grumman are
all too eager to find desperate youth and offer them a 'future' that turns them
into killing machines. But we may have an actual opportunity to talk to the teacher and
offer her some alternatives for the students, and actually wrench such an event from the
hands of the military industrial complex. Wouldn't it be beautiful if we had a
fundraiser for youth from this school that want to work on cool hacking projects (Oakland
Wiki?)
I think there are a multitude of ways to create an alternative event for these kids, in a
way that doesn't say to the teacher "flip off we don't want your event
here" but actually has a positive spin that cuts the USAF out of the loop. We've
actually already been talking about creating a Sudo-Teens, and I think this would
perfectly riff off of that project. As it happens, my partner actually works for OUSD and
is in a unique position to bridge our goals and theirs, and will be getting in contact
with the teacher herself to propose alternatives. What do you all think?
On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:13:41 +0000, Hol Gaskill wrote:
Northrop Grumman is historically, and still almost entirely an arms manufacturer. What
if we had United Launch Alliance wanting to sponsor a rocketry program for kids? Where do
we draw the perimeter around our organization? Google? PG&E? Taqueria Sinaloa? I
think there are a few no-brainers both ways, and a vast expanse of grey area. Maybe we
could have 2 levels of association for events - events that are endorsed by the group
wholeheartedly and have no substantial conflicts of interest, and events where there is no
question of value to the intended benefit recipients but some members have reservations
about what it would imply if we were perceived to be associated as a group. Like,
can't be added to the website or announced via sudo social media nodes, can't use
our logo in their documentation of the event, etc. I think the comment about going over
with the kids themselves about what sponsorship implies is spot on, maybe give us an
opportunity to teach them about all the patriots that have overthrown their own
governments for the better, the patriots that resist foreign occupation aaand i'll
stop there.
Also, this particular event aside, the initial feedback seems to indicate that George is
OK with some form of highschool-age kids participating at sudo room which could extend our
educational value to the community. There is this program where HS students share time on
cube sats - I'm trying to get a team formed at my high school in San Antonio, would be
awesome if we could get some students from Oakland in on it. Pretty basic stuff, just
writing software to flash up there and read sensors, then 'up'load the data back
to earth. No warheads or anything.
Oct 14, 2013 10:06:19 AM, di.franco(a)gmail.com wrote:
I share the desire to be critical of and proceed carefully with associations with
military-sponsored events.
I think it will be important for us to hear directly from the kids if possible since they
have by far the most to gain or lose in this question: How do they view the sponsorship of
the contest, what do they hope to get from participating in the contest, what do they hope
to gain from being at sudo room (if we will have them)?
>On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 1:34 AM, Marc
Juul juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
>On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
If Marc or anyone else would like to bring up this topic at the general meeting, I could
not make it this Wednesday but am available the following.
I will be there.
Vicky
On Oct 13, 2013 7:31 PM, "Marc Juul" juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>Do you all have any recommendations on how to expedite this? What is the current
status of the large room and using it for events?
>For background, this teacher origianally contacted info@sudoroom but never got a
response, and called the SR number today, slightly frantic. I think it would be really
awesome if we were able to help her out. This event seems quite an incredible opportunity
for young people.
>What? What have you been smoking?
>The Air Force Association's
CyberPatriot? Sponsored by Northrop Grumman?! Why are people assuming that this is
something sudo room wants to support or in any way encourage?
>--
>Marc
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Marc's response is justified, though I reject
the language of the two opening questions.
My conversation over the phone with Vivienne lead me to believe that she was
participating in a competition organized by her school and I didn't carefully scan the
email explanation that she sent me afterward to send to the list. I am really down about
my oversight and apologize for it.
I did learn the details of the competition's funding when she and a colleague came to
see the space and pick up the key the night before their practice, and at that point I
processed the explanation of the sponsorship much differently than Marc.
While she is not happy about the sponsor,
Vivienne's justification of pursuing this event was that this was a great opportunity
for her students to get a hold of resources and a learning environment they would
otherwise not have had. She wanted to be able to do this event at a hackerspace because
her ultimate goal was to use this competition as a bridge to connect to a critical, hacker
community (for what this bridge is worth, given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once
uneasy and understanding. I respect the sentiment that she expressed that she needed to
take the opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick to jump to judgment of many of
my bright and fascinating friends back home who were in a position in which they (felt
that they?) needed to join the military in order to realistically afford higher education.
That said, I stand with Marc in my rejection of the military industrial complex (or
whatever you would like to call it), but I do not know the answer to more nuanced
questions of access to aspirational education within a race-class divided society. I
invite your conversation.
This is not a question of access to aspirational education within a race-class divided
society. The problem I'm having is that you (and possibly others?) decided to
facilitate something called The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot Competition, with
Northrop Grumman as sponsor, with some form of association to sudo room. Whatever your
personal decision-making process was, you must have realized that at least some members
would strongly disagree with that decision, yet you moved forward with short warning and
without directly bringing the controversial topic in front of the group for discussion and
decision. This should have been taken up at the weekly meeting. The fact that it was not
obvious to you that this event was controversial enough to warrant serious group
discussion before proceeding is problematic.
This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up
at this Wednesdays
sudo room meeting. I am completely against anything like this
happening
in or near sudo room in any way shape or form. I do not believe I am
alone in feeling like this. I am both surprised and very disappointed
that a critical and sceptical approach was not taken in dealing with
something like this on behalf of sudo room.