Sunday looks free. I wonder if the school's insurance for field trips would apply? Let me ask her. Regardless, what do people think? PS: We should sync this calendar with the one on sudoroom.org/calendar. Does someone know how to do this who could teach me how? 2013/10/10 Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com>

if a parental waiver for kids within a certain age range is OK with George, I think we might have a way in for middleschool-highschool students who are really the key audience for hands on tech. i'd be glad to talk to George and try to work out a framework for future events if we get the green light on this one. It could be something like, kids under X age must be accompanied by their legal guardian, and kids between ages of X and Y must have a minimum of 2 chaperones plus 1 for every 10 kids. vicky - have you checked on this? it would be great if we can move forward. Oct 10, 2013 04:42:54 PM, vknoxsironi(a)gmail.com wrote: UPDATE: Insurance no, signed parent waivers yes. would apply? Let me ask her. Regardless, what do people think? Does someone know how to do this who could teach me how? >2013/10/10 Marina Kukso marina.kukso(a)gmail.com> hey vicky, >check http://2141broadway.wordpress.com/ to see if there are events. >i am not sure what our status is wrt having youth in the space...if they are teenagers it might not be a big problem... i don't know. what do others think? >On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi(a)gmail.com> wrote: current status of the large room and using it for events? never got a response, and called the SR number today, slightly frantic. I think it would be really awesome if we were able to help her out. This event seems quite an incredible opportunity for young people. >ykciV >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: >Vivian Pustell vivian.pustell(a)ousd.k12.ca.us> Date: Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 4:16 PM >Subject: Space use? >To: info(a)sudoroom.org >Hi Sudo Room! >I'm a teacher at Oakland Tech High, not far from you. I've organized a team of students who are all taking part in the CyberPatriot info sec competition. They're training really hard--and learning a lot--so that they can enter the competition. We've run into a stumbling block, though--the competition windows for reach round are always on a weekend, and the school district has informed me that I can't use the school on the weekend without paying. students--and we need space to compete once a month (with one month where we compete twice) for about six hours on a Sunday afternoon. >Is there any way we can negotiate use of some space at a reasonable rate? They're really excited about this, but I'm afraid we might not have a place to meet and compete if I can't find a space we can afford. suggestions for other locations we might try! >Best, >-Vivienne Pustell >Teacher, OTHS >_______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >_______________________________________________ >sudo-discuss mailing list >sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

PS: We should sync this calendar with the one on sudoroom.org/calendar. Does someone know how to do this who could teach me how?

2013/10/10 Marina Kukso marina.kukso(a)gmail.com

check http://2141broadway.wordpress.com/ to see if there are events. i am not sure what our status is wrt having youth in the space...if they are teenagers it might not be a big problem... i don't know. what do others think?

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox vknoxsironi(a)gmail.com> wrote:

Do you all have any recommendations on how to expedite this? What is the current status of the large room and using it for  events?

For background, this teacher origianally contacted info@sudoroom but never got a response, and called the SR number today, slightly frantic. I think it would be really awesome if we were able to help her out. This event seems quite an incredible opportunity for young people.

ykciV ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Vivian Pustell vivian.pustell(a)ousd.k12.ca.us

Subject: Space use? To: info(a)sudoroom.org Hi Sudo Room! I'm

We are a small group--me, our mentor, and about four

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi(a)gmail.com> wrote: What? What have you been smoking? The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot? Sponsored by Northrop Grumman?!Why are people assuming that this is something sudo room wants to support or in any way encourage? This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up at this Wednesdays sudo room meeting. I am completely against anything like this happening in or near sudo room in any way shape or form. I do not believe I am alone in feeling like this. I am both surprised and very disappointed that a critical and sceptical approach was not taken in dealing with something like this on behalf of sudo room. -- Marc

_______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi(a)gmail.com> wrote: What? What have you been smoking? The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot? Sponsored by Northrop Grumman?!Why are people assuming that this is something sudo room wants to support or in any way encourage? This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up at this Wednesdays sudo room meeting. I am completely against anything like this happening in or near sudo room in any way shape or form. I do not believe I am alone in feeling like this. I am both surprised and very disappointed that a critical and sceptical approach was not taken in dealing with something like this on behalf of sudo room. -- Marc

Marc's response is justified, though I reject the language of the two opening questions. My conversation over the phone with Vivienne lead me to believe that she was participating in a competition organized by her school and I didn't carefully scan the email explanation that she sent me afterward to send to the list. I am really down about my oversight and apologize for it. I did learn the details of the competition's funding when she and a colleague came to see the space and pick up the key the night before their practice, and at that point I processed the explanation of the sponsorship much differently than Marc.

While she is not happy about the sponsor, Vivienne's justification of pursuing this event was that this was a great opportunity for her students to get a hold of resources and a learning environment they would otherwise not have had. She wanted to be able to do this event at a hackerspace because her ultimate goal was to use this competition as a bridge to connect to a critical, hacker community (for what this bridge is worth, given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once uneasy and understanding. I respect the sentiment that she expressed that she needed to take the opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick to jump to judgment of many of my bright and fascinating friends back home who were in a position in which they (felt that they?) needed to join the military in order to realistically afford higher education. That said, I stand with Marc in my rejection of the military industrial complex (or whatever you would like to call it), but I do not know the answer to more nuanced questions of access to aspirational education within a race-class divided society. I invite your conversation.

If Marc or anyone else would like to bring up this topic at the general meeting, I could not make it this Wednesday but am available the following.

Vicky On Oct 13, 2013 7:31 PM, "Marc Juul" <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:

Marc's response is justified, though I reject the language of the two opening questions.

While she is not happy about the sponsor, Vivienne's justification of pursuing this event was that this was a great opportunity for her students to get a hold of resources and a learning environment they would otherwise not have had. She wanted to be able to do this event at a hackerspace because her ultimate goal was to use this competition as a bridge to connect to a critical, hacker community (for what this bridge is worth, given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once uneasy and understanding. I respect the sentiment that she expressed that she needed to take the opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick to jump to judgment of many of my bright and fascinating friends back home who were in a position in which they (felt that they?) needed to join the military in order to realistically afford higher education. That said, I stand with Marc in my rejection of the military industrial complex (or whatever you would like to call it), but I do not know the answer to more nuanced questions of access to aspirational education within a race-class divided society. I invite your conversation.

This sounds terrible. I am going to take this up at this Wednesdays

I don't want to assume ill intent of the teacher herself, and I don't want to assume she is trying to mislead us. I think that the avenues of funding are extremely limited for Oakland's public schools, and meanwhile the USAF and Northrop Grumman are all too eager to find desperate youth and offer them a 'future' that turns them into killing machines. But we may have an actual opportunity to talk to the teacher and offer her some alternatives for the students, and actually wrench such an event from the hands of the military industrial complex. Wouldn't it be beautiful if we had a fundraiser for youth from this school that want to work on cool hacking projects (Oakland Wiki?) I think there are a multitude of ways to create an alternative event for these kids, in a way that doesn't say to the teacher "flip off we don't want your event here" but actually has a positive spin that cuts the USAF out of the loop. We've actually already been talking about creating a Sudo-Teens, and I think this would perfectly riff off of that project. As it happens, my partner actually works for OUSD and is in a unique position to bridge our goals and theirs, and will be getting in contact with the teacher herself to propose alternatives. What do you all think? On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:13:41 +0000, Hol Gaskill wrote: manufacturer. What if we had United Launch Alliance wanting to sponsor a rocketry program for kids? Where do we draw the perimeter around our organization? Google? PG&E? Taqueria Sinaloa? I think there are a few no-brainers both ways, and a vast expanse of grey area. Maybe we could have 2 levels of association for events - events that are endorsed by the group wholeheartedly and have no substantial conflicts of interest, and events where there is no question of value to the intended benefit recipients but some members have reservations about what it would imply if we were perceived to be associated as a group. Like, can't be added to the website or announced via sudo social media nodes, can't use our logo in their documentation of the event, etc. I think the comment about going over with the kids themselves about what sponsorship implies is spot on, maybe give us an opportunity to teach them about all the patriots that have overthrown their own governments for the better, the patriots that resist foreign occupation aaand i'll stop there. indicate that George is OK with some form of highschool-age kids participating at sudo room which could extend our educational value to the community. There is this program where HS students share time on cube sats - I'm trying to get a team formed at my high school in San Antonio, would be awesome if we could get some students from Oakland in on it. Pretty basic stuff, just writing software to flash up there and read sensors, then 'up'load the data back to earth. No warheads or anything. associations with military-sponsored events. possible since they have by far the most to gain or lose in this question: How do they view the sponsorship of the contest, what do they hope to get from participating in the contest, what do they hope to gain from being at sudo room (if we will have them)? wrote: opening questions. was participating in a competition organized by her school and I didn't carefully scan the email explanation that she sent me afterward to send to the list. I am really down about my oversight and apologize for it. colleague came to see the space and pick up the key the night before their practice, and at that point I processed the explanation of the sponsorship much differently than Marc. pursuing this event was that this was a great opportunity for her students to get a hold of resources and a learning environment they would otherwise not have had. She wanted to be able to do this event at a hackerspace because her ultimate goal was to use this competition as a bridge to connect to a critical, hacker community (for what this bridge is worth, given the obvious discrepancy). I felt at once uneasy and understanding. I respect the sentiment that she expressed that she needed to take the opportunity that was there, just as I am not quick to jump to judgment of many of my bright and fascinating friends back home who were in a position in which they (felt that they?) needed to join the military in order to realistically afford higher education. That said, I stand with Marc in my rejection of the military industrial complex (or whatever you would like to call it), but I do not know the answer to more nuanced questions of access to aspirational education within a race-class divided society. I invite your conversation. race-class divided society. The problem I'm having is that you (and possibly others?) decided to facilitate something called The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot Competition, with Northrop Grumman as sponsor, with some form of association to sudo room. Whatever your personal decision-making process was, you must have realized that at least some members would strongly disagree with that decision, yet you moved forward with short warning and without directly bringing the controversial topic in front of the group for discussion and decision. This should have been taken up at the weekly meeting. The fact that it was not obvious to you that this event was controversial enough to warrant serious group discussion before proceeding is problematic. meeting, I could not make it this Wednesday but am available the following. wrote: the current status of the large room and using it for events? never got a response, and called the SR number today, slightly frantic. I think it would be really awesome if we were able to help her out. This event seems quite an incredible opportunity for young people. Grumman?! Why are people assuming that this is something sudo room wants to support or in any way encourage? _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 12:25 AM, Vicky Knox <vknoxsironi(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote: This is not a question of access to aspirational education within a race-class divided society. The problem I'm having is that you (and possibly others?) decided to facilitate something called The Air Force Association's CyberPatriot Competition, with Northrop Grumman as sponsor, with some form of association to sudo room. Whatever your personal decision-making process was, you must have realized that at least some members would strongly disagree with that decision, yet you moved forward with short warning and without directly bringing the controversial topic in front of the group for discussion and decision. This should have been taken up at the weekly meeting. The fact that it was not obvious to you that this event was controversial enough to warrant serious group discussion before proceeding is problematic. I will be there.