[sudo-discuss] Re: sudoroom meeting Wednesday at 8PM

So let's start by fixing BOGSS, then deal with CLP if people feel that is needed, then TANC - that seems like the correct order. I had written this in another thread, but now that I've written it out, I might as well post it here: I think we should make a change in the rules that govern BOGSS, which is not in the bylaw (just like Sudo Room's rules are not in the bylaws). This is the document in question: https://omnicommons.org/wiki/BOGSS I would make the following changes (highlighted in bold): 1. Committee Makeup: There shall be 5 members of BOGSS selected from Omni collectives and at large or working group volunteers/organizers, *including no more than 2 committee members from each collective, working group, or "renters" (organizations that rent space but are not collective members)*. All members must be selected per the election process below. T*he BOGSS committee shall be considered inactive when it has less than 5 members, or more than 2 members from any one collective, working group, or renters. When inactive, the BOGSS committee shall only have an advisory role rather than the Powers described below.* 2a*. * The congress shall have the following caps to prevent a single organization from overwhelming the membership: - 5 maximum members per Omni collective - 5 maximum members from at large Omni volunteers from the various working groups - 2 maximum members per Omni "renters" (Orgs that rent space but are not collective members) - *No more than 1/3 of members from any one collective, working group, or renters* 2b. Nomination and Election Process: - From this first round, the top 10 nominees*, including no more than the top 3 from each collective or working group,* will be chosen to advance to the second round of elections. During the second round, each Congress member may submit 2 votes for BOGSS. These votes must go to 2 different nominees. These votes shall also be submitted through a role call process. At the conclusion of this second round, the top 5 vote getters,* including no more than the top 2 from each collective or working group,* shall be selected to BOGSS for the next term. 3a. BOGSS Powers: *When the BOGSS committee is not inactive, *BOGGS shall have the power to... I think these changes should be non-controversial (in an ideal world), and in line with the language that is already in there about the need to "prevent a single organization from overwhelming the membership". Patrik On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 9:58 AM Jake Watters &lt;typeinthenumber(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Patrik I think you're misinterpreting the situation. Boggs is not in > session. It's literally just Geraldo claiming to be bogss so he can vote > with CLP. He created an email address "boggs" in order to look more > legitimate. Let's call it for what it is. > > Of course he doesn't respond to Silver wanting to join. Of course he > doesn't help Marquise with his conflicts. He's just trying to help CLP. > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023, 03:03 Patrik D'haeseleer via sudo-discuss < > sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: > >> On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 1:57 AM Z Silver Zahn &lt;natashazahn27(a)gmail.com&gt; >> wrote: >> >>> I’ve been trying to join boggs in the last few months and no response … >>> >> >> Yes, and that is definitely something we need to remedy as soon as >> possible. As far as I can tell there is no justification for BOGSS to >> exclude an eligible representative. >> >> Strictly speaking it is up to individual collectives to select their >> representatives. If Sudo Room needs to have a formal vote on that, anyone >> who wishes to volunteer has my full support. >> >> Patrik >> >> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 1:56 AM Patrik D'haeseleer via sudo-discuss < >>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>> >>>> I would also like to urge some Sudo folks to step up and *join Omni's >>>> Diversity/Equity/Inclusion committee*, BOGSS. Right now, the only >>>> members on that committee are from CLP, and they get a vote on the >>>> delegates meeting, which effectively gives CLP two votes at the table. >>>> >>>> I believe the only requirement for being on the committee is to be >>>> non-white OR non-male, and each collective can have up to 5 representatives >>>> on the larger BOGSS "congress" that appoints the committee. >>>> >>>> We can argue that BOGSS is currently inactive because they haven't >>>> been having meetings, and don't have the required number of committee >>>> members, and CLP is double-dipping. But the cleaner way would be to stack >>>> BOGSS so they more accurately reflect the diversity at Omni. >>>> >>>> Patrik >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 6:47 PM Andrew R Gross via sudo-discuss < >>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> As Jake said, Omni has to make some decisions, and this only works if >>>>> we get engagement. >>>>> >>>>> If you're confused or overwhelmed, feel free to say so. Message >>>>> either of us privately. Come in in person and talk it out. But Sudo and >>>>> Omni can't function and do what we're here to do is people don't >>>>> participate. Thanks everyone! >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2023, 1:04 PM Jake via sudo-discuss < >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Just to bump this issue, the delegates are still talking about it >>>>>> and the one >>>>>> group "CLP" are still trying to block TANC from moving in. The >>>>>> delegates are >>>>>> emailing about this to try to quell the confusion around this issue, >>>>>> so now is >>>>>> the time for Sudoroom (and all omni collectives) to meet and discuss >>>>>> it in >>>>>> order to make sure that their delegate (me and/or Andy) can go >>>>>> forward into >>>>>> the next delegates meeting (which might be sooner than normal) to >>>>>> discuss it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Can people make it to an in-person meeting on Wednesday night at >>>>>> sudoroom? As >>>>>> always there is the video link portal at this link, which connects >>>>>> you to the >>>>>> room over video and audio (try it anytime) >>>>>> https://meet.waag.org/turtlesturtlesturtles >>>>>> >>>>>> Previous meeting notes: >>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Meetings#Meeting_Notes_Archive >>>>>> >>>>>> Wednesday night meeting at 8? Or thoughts about the situation >>>>>> described >>>>>> below. >>>>>> >>>>>> To be clear, I think the question is going to come up of voting to >>>>>> remove CLP >>>>>> from Omni Commons, so we need to make it clear for our delegates >>>>>> what our >>>>>> position is on that. >>>>>> >>>>>> -jake >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, 14 Sep 2023, Jake Watters via sudo-discuss wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > Just to clarify, TANC has already been voted in according to our >>>>>> bylaws: >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://omnicommons.org/pipermail/consensus/2023-September/004001.html >>>>>> > >>>>>> > On Thu, Sep 14, 2023, 13:07 Andrew R Gross via sudo-discuss < >>>>>> > sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> >> Just to clarify, TANC is Tenants and Neighborhoods Councils. >>>>>> They're a >>>>>> >> local tenants union who helps organize renters to form unions in >>>>>> and >>>>>> >> between apartment buildings to challenge rent increase or >>>>>> otherwise push >>>>>> >> back against property managers. I reached out to them last year >>>>>> when I was >>>>>> >> looking for advice in dealing with bad behavior by my property >>>>>> manager, and >>>>>> >> attended one of their meetings. I support their work. >>>>>> https://baytanc.com >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> CLP is Community Liberation Programs: >>>>>> >> https://www.communityliberationprograms.org/. I don't know much >>>>>> about >>>>>> >> them, honestly. They organize programs around diverse socialist >>>>>> goals, >>>>>> >> which sounds like something I'd completely support, but I think >>>>>> it's >>>>>> >> misguided to block TANC from joining Omni, particularly on the >>>>>> charge that >>>>>> >> they're not outspoken enough about Palestine. I don't think >>>>>> they've >>>>>> >> provided any evidence for the claim, and it's also creating a lot >>>>>> of >>>>>> >> conflict within Omni that seems super unproductive. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Especially because *Omni is facing foreclosure at the end of the >>>>>> year* if >>>>>> >> we don't find a new lender. We need a strong financial base of >>>>>> support from >>>>>> >> member collectives in order to convince a credit union to loan us >>>>>> money to >>>>>> >> avoid losing the building. I don't want to pick a fight with CLP, >>>>>> but the >>>>>> >> consensus process is meant to encourage discussion and >>>>>> persuasion, and >>>>>> >> blocks are supposed to be used for matters of urgent necessity. >>>>>> >> Filibustering a new collective's joining or using a block because >>>>>> you >>>>>> >> haven't been successful persuading others is not a good-faith use >>>>>> of the >>>>>> >> consensus process, imo. Which is why I think Sudo should endorse >>>>>> a proposal >>>>>> >> to use the consensus-minus-one clause to proceed with inducting >>>>>> TANC into >>>>>> >> Omni. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> Does anyone disagree? If so, can you please offer a counter >>>>>> proposal to >>>>>> >> resolve this dispute. If there is no block on the motion, then I >>>>>> believe >>>>>> >> whoever represents Sudo at the next Thursday Omni meeting will >>>>>> register our >>>>>> >> collective as being in support of the motion to disregard CLP's >>>>>> block on >>>>>> >> TANC joining. >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> -Andy >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> <https://baytanc.com/> >>>>>> >> *Andrew R Gross, (he/him)* >>>>>> >> 412.657.5332 - shrad.org <http://www.shrad.org> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 8:44 PM Karissa McKelvey < >>>>>> krmckelv(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>>>> >> wrote: >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >>> There are a lot of acronyms here I have no idea what's going on. >>>>>> but this >>>>>> >>> is exactly why consensus-1 exists >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 2:56 PM Z Silver Zahn via sudo-discuss < >>>>>> >>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>>> I really thinks it’s inappropriate to ask an organization that >>>>>> Omni >>>>>> >>>> dosent have that much of a relationship to spend their energy >>>>>> looking into >>>>>> >>>> who TANC is , what omni decision making model is etc. I hope >>>>>> CLP steps up >>>>>> >>>> to these demands they imposed on PYM . >>>>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 2:29 PM Andrew R Gross via sudo-discuss >>>>>> < >>>>>> >>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I strongly, strongly endorse Yar’s proposal, and while I’m >>>>>> trying to >>>>>> >>>>> take a break from Omni politics, I would be willing to make an >>>>>> exception if >>>>>> >>>>> there’s anything I can do to help break this impasse. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I am neutral on ejecting or suspending CLP. I’m happy to try >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>> resolve things with them if they’re willing, but I wouldn’t >>>>>> mind seeing >>>>>> >>>>> them go if they continue to demonstrate a lack of >>>>>> consideration for the >>>>>> >>>>> consensus process. Tanc’s approval has taken far too long, imo. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> It’s frankly shitty to spend so much time denigrating and >>>>>> occupying the >>>>>> >>>>> limited resources of a group that helps renters stay in their >>>>>> homes. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 13, 2023 at 2:20 PM Muirén Ní Sídach via >>>>>> sudo-discuss < >>>>>> >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I get the picture. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>> sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> >>>>>> More options at >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>> sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> >>>>> More options at >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> >>>> More options at >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>>> >>>> >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> >> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> >> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> >> More options at >>>>>> >> >>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >_______________________________________________ >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> More options at >>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>> More options at >>>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>> More options at >>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >> More options at >> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >> >