11 Apr
2013
11 Apr
'13
11:27 a.m.
Sorry but a little more "transparency and openness" about what was going
to happen to emails to that list, rather than using overtly misleading
language, would have prevented this kerfluffle in the first place.
"Categorically object" all you like, but that boils down to an assertion
that you have some kind of right to make and spread copies of someone
else's words _against their will_, and infringe their privacy _against
their will_, which is truly authoritarian.
Aestetix, if you're reading this, your input would be highly welcome.
Meanwhile I have work to do today.
-G.
=====
On 13-04-11-Thu 10:58 AM, rachel lyra hospodar wrote:
At the bottom of every email to this list is a link to 'listinfo'
which opens with an archive of every post to the list. If the
boilerplate seems unclear to people we can talk about changing it but
I categorically object to removing anything from the archive.
Transparency and openness are part of our core values, archiving
emails is very standard, the listinfo page makes it clear that this is
done using completely standard language, and if anyone wishes to have
their statements go unattributed they are welcome to not enter them
into the Internet, or to use a pseudonym.
R.
On Apr 11, 2013 10:53 AM, "Anon195714" <anon195714(a)sbcglobal.net
<mailto:anon195714@sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
Let's be really clear about this:
This is the explicit language in the sign-up document:
"Subscribing to sudo-discuss
Subscribe to sudo-discuss by filling out the following form. You
will be sent email requesting confirmation, to prevent others from
gratuitously subscribing you. This is a private list, which means
that the list of members is not available to non-members."
"THIS IS A PRIVATE LIST, WHICH MEANS THAT THE LIST OF MEMBERS IS
NOT AVAILABLE TO NON MEMBERS."
That's a representation of a material fact. And the link to the
archive says NOTHING about that archive being anything that would
violate or contradict the language I quoted above: no disclosure,
no nothing.
Blatant misrepresentation.
"May need to be doing a better job" is the understatement of the year.
The answer is, I'm going to hold SudoRoom to the terms &
conditions I signed, and that material is going to be taken down
immediately until such time as anything I've posted in it can be
removed from any publicly searchable content. This is not
optional, any more than free repair under warranty is optional, or
the absence of horsemeat in "100% beef frankfurters" is optional.
I'm holding SudoRoom to its stated language.
-G.
======
On 13-04-11-Thu 10:42 AM, Marina Kukso wrote:
hi george,
i'm very sorry that you feel that you did not consent to having
this information public. this list has been publicly archived
since it began and i think that we've tried to make that clear
(although it seems that we may need to be doing a better job!).
unfortunately i'm not sure to what extent the "welcome to
sudo-discuss list" email that new list members receive includes
information about content being publicly archived (could someone
help with this?), but perhaps we may need to make this more
explicit in that letter.
for additional background on why we made the decision to publicly
archive contents, the idea is not necessarily to promote
"transparency and openness" as a matter of principle only, but
because part of what we wanted to do with sudo room is to make
our history as easy for others to use as possible so that others
who are starting and running hackerspaces can learn from our
experience and discussion. in other words, to facilitate
ctrl-c/ctrl-v of hackerspaces around the world.
- marina
On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Anon195714
<anon195714(a)sbcglobal.net <mailto:anon195714@sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
Right, and when you slip LSD into the fruit punch at a party
and don't tell anyone, do you justify that by saying you're
trying to encourage enlightenment? Who needs informed
consent anyway, right? Hey, who needs consent of any kind?
Sorry yo, that don't go. It's NON CONSENSUAL, like seducing
someone and failing to disclose to them that you have STDs.
It's a trust-break in a big way.
I'm asserting my right to put this on the meeting agenda for
next Wednesday, and pull in any record of anything I signed
that contained TOS.
Let me be really clear about this: I'm as serious as a
fucking heart attack about this, and anyone who thinks it's a
joke is fucking sick.
This "open and transparent" stuff is starting to become a
chant fit for a cult, that short-circuits reason and critical
thinking. In reality it's a house of one-way mirrors foisted
by the powerful on the masses to enable "prediction and
control" down to the level of the individual.
Enough was enough long ago, just like muggings and the rest
of it.
-G.
=====
On 13-04-11-Thu 10:07 AM, mattsenate(a)gmail.com
<mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
We set the list up to be public in an
effort to remain as
transparent and open as possible. This is a blessing and a
burden. We should be mindful of the scope of our language
and interested in maintaining private conversation off the list.
Additionally, if you seek a lot of privacy, I don't
recommend communicating over the internet if it can be helped.
// Matt
----- Reply message -----
From: "Tracy Jacobs" <kinetical(a)comcast.net>
<mailto:kinetical@comcast.net>
To: "Romy Ilano" <romy(a)snowyla.com>
<mailto:romy@snowyla.com>
Cc: "sudo-discuss" <sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org>
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
Subject: [sudo-discuss] Michael Orange - film events -
Battle for Brooklyn - any sudo members interested in an intro?
Date: Thu, Apr 11, 2013 9:54 AM
Sudoers,
Why does our discussion list have to be published on the
internet? I don't personally want it to be that public.
Who decided it should be done that way, and is there
another option?
Tracy
On Apr 10, 2013, at 12:32 PM, Romy Ilano <romy(a)snowyla.com
<mailto:romy@snowyla.com>> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Hey here is one of the film events that
Michael Orange
from top 10 social is presenting.
https://www.facebook.com/events/563556023675662/?notif_t=plan_user_invited
Michael's also working with the Oakland Library as well,so
I'll mention the history wki people from sudoroom are there!
this probably isn't necessary for anyone here... but in
case one or two people gets the temptation:
-- Michael Orange is an all around good guy--please treat
him well, minimize over the top business plans, "industry
type behavior", and approach him as you would a family
member. If we talk to him the wrong way it will be a smear
on my reputation and his opinion matters a lot to me. =D
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
<mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
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http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss