Re: [sudo-discuss] johnny ban / process?

I volunteer to mediate this conflict. On Wed, 20 Jul 2016, hol(a)gaskill.com wrote: > Worth taking another look at the referenced section where we enumerate > rights and possibly some discussion. Mediation / Stewarding takes > alot > of time and energy and with the number of projects going on top of > subsistence level tasks, I don't believe anyone is entitled to the > efforts of already very thin-spread volunteers. > > I've done mediation twice for sudo and it's certainly not something > I'd > do for someone who shows zero respect for the space - no one should > have > the expectation that because sudo room is a thing that exists, they > are > owed something by it or its members before or even after demonstrating > any kind of goodwill. > > I don't know any of the facts behind this other conflict that is being > brought into sudo room but part of the reason we have a conflict > resolution track is so these topics don't take over the communications > fora or meeting time. Since Marina has recused herself from this > topic, > any volunteers here or has the bridge been burned down to the > waterline? > On 2016-07-20 14:32, Scott Edmonds wrote: > >> How does a housing conflict supersede use of a shared space? There >> are two sides to this story, please remember this in any decisions >> made. >> >> Best, >> >> Scott R. Edmonds >> Mobile: 1-510-928-3469 >> >> On Jul 20, 2016, at 4:18 PM, Johnny <mostmodernist(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> LOL So in addition to being pre-judged and convicted by a kangaroo >> court of 4 sudoers at last week's meeting, I must also watch what >> words I used to express myself in defense of public accusations? >> Well, then, add patriarchal to fascist and supremacist tendencies, ye >> saviors of the oppressed! >> >> let's take it step by step: >> * 4 sudoers banned me without process or quorum, using superseding >> powers, just like fascists do >> * my privacy with regard to claims made has been violated >> * sudo room's own process has been hijacked, which was supposed to >> provide me with presumption of innocence and a few "rights", and the >> pretense of good will; and an actual process of resolution via >> mediation >> * I can't speak freely without repudiation and judgement >> >> But you can't take some words? Have a middle finger then! >> >> Thanks to your protocol, I have to absorb a continuation of a year's >> worth of harassment and abuse from lesley, now in public spectacle >> form, with accusations to supposed peers. Same shit, different >> levers. I'm being called all kinds of things here in this thread >> still, but I can't state I think some people's behavior is fascist >> and still expect fairness? Okay then! >> >> Ya'll know zero facts, and aren't even listening to one who has had >> firsthand experience with this conflict. There was zero evidence of >> unsafe behavior, or danger, to anybody. The information disparity >> you are acting on is beyond reproach, and is causing acute lunacy. >> Has anybody from last week's meeting even spoke up yet? Where you >> at, lil fascists? >> >> Btw, ya'lls high-winded "support of the oppressed" would not pass >> muster for many other oppressed people and communities, no matter how >> much you claim to protect them; it would look and smell like the >> systems used by people of privilege to enact continued systemic >> oppression, even while being oblivious to it. >> >> I do not have any desire to take part in mediation where I am >> straight jacketed while "the process" is manipulated by the accuser >> and a small faction of members. Sudo room done gave up sudo >> privileges when it acquiesced to the OMNI. As was noted above by >> another member, fairness cannot possibly be expected by oneself such >> as me. >> >> Ya'll can keep that rat in your trap. >> >> FYI: I had to formally evict kick Lesley out of our house on account >> of many other people she harassed and abused with these same tactics. >> In fact, more than one person here would accuse her of sexual >> harassment. I guess we should have taken it up with the high court >> of OMNI/sudo! >> >> I am her target now, because I am the only one who had authority to >> remove her from our house, and I did so, finally, despite our >> friendship, only after patiently attempting many, many times get >> mediation between her and others (she refused most attempts), and >> begging that she leave on her own, for the good of all. I did this >> with nothing but words and oaths and sadness, even as she began >> turning the accusations and harassment on me. >> >> And It was this same manipulative behavior to the landlord that >> precipitated my current eviction, which has sent several people in my >> community, all of them as vulnerable as lesley, running for cover >> elsewhere. >> >> If ya'll want some testimony from other of lesley's victims who got >> it worse than I am even now, and who can definitely not be mistaken >> for an able cis white male, i'll be glad to get it to you so you know >> what you're defending with your so-called process. >> >> Perhaps then yall dummies will understand why the omni and sudo have >> begun looking like a private club of privilege masquerading as the >> white knight for all oppressed people everywhere. Pick one please, >> and stop trying to fool the good people of Oakland. >> >> Meanwhile you're now safe-spacing an admitted and actual racist, >> supremacist, and misanthrope. >> >> And you refuse to react with reason, and haste, to this ironic and >> tainted breach of process, privacy, dignity, and cooperative spirit. >> Gotta get back to hacking the system! >> >> Yes, fascist is the right word. It's just right. You don't like? >> Eat it! >> >> You will be judged by the society you choose to keep, not your >> righteous self-identifications, proclamations, and fungible policies, >> despite your best intentions. Ya'll too comfortable. >> >> I'm not "taking this seriously", cuz that would make me ill, but I >> ain't joking either. Ya'll be breathing too much of your own >> righteous gas to think your notions of propriety and process are >> worth the trouble. Thanks for the solder. >> >> It's on ya'll to come correct, not me. Middle finger to your >> "process". I don't need lesley's harassment magnified on me by your >> social club's bugged protocol. I was happy as a clam to be rid of her >> at last. >> >> I'll give up all omni to be rid of one Lesley Bell. With hope that >> it prevents her doing oppressed people on the outside more harm, may >> the OMNI become the ONLY space she feels safe. >> >> peace signed, >> johnny >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Lesley Bell <zvezdalune(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Marina, >> >> I appreciate your offer, and your past willingness to mediate. >> However, due to the results of the past mediation, I am not >> comfortable having you mediate at this time. >> >> Just to clarify: In this thread Marina was offering to act as >> Conflict Steward, not mediator. >> >> Your repeated suggestion that Johnny might just be joking and I >> should reframe his insults/harassment as humor did not prove to be >> helpful, as evidenced by his subsequent criminal breaking and >> entering and physical assault. I also did not feel that his words in >> your presence were sincere, as he repeated some of his inappropriate >> behavior very soon afterward. >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016, 10:56 AM Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote: >> >> On Wednesday, July 20, 2016, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> aside from any other issues, i sincerely doubt that this is a game to >> johnny given that he wants to participate in the space.. >> >> let's focus on "restorative" instead of "retributive" - johnny seems >> (to me) to want to follow the process in a good faith way. for anyone >> who is more familiar with the omni and sudo remediation process than >> i am, any ideas on how to move forward from here? >> >> Accusations are one thing but the way people choose to respond to >> accusations is usually a very good predictor of whether they end up >> with a resolved conflict and regaining access to the space. >> >> After Johnny's comments in this thread I predict that he will not be >> allowed back any time soon. >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 7:24 AM, robb <sf99er(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> #swish? >> >> really, this is all just a game to you johnny? >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 3:46 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer >> <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Johnny, >> >> Is it true that Lesley's has a temporary restraining order against >> you? That seems to rise above mere "gossip and accusations", and >> seems like it would be substantial enough to trigger at least a >> temporary ban. >> >> Also, it's the nature of interpersonal conflicts that there may not >> be any more than "accusations" available to make a decision on. So if >> someone states that they feel unsafe around another person, it may be >> justified to remove that other person from the space at least >> temporarily, until a better informed decision can be reached. >> >> Patrik >> >> On Jul 20, 2016 2:16 AM, "Johnny" <mostmodernist(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> that link says if "someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may >> be placed". it says nothing about how, and obviously is meant to >> deal with clear present safety issues, not gossip and accusations. >> >> abusing that vague apparatus of the super-system to ban people on >> mere claims is totally fascist and supremacist behavior. >> >> defending it is also fascist. >> >> calling out for the record that Marc, Matt, Cere, Sigma, Jeremy are >> fascists for consent to abuse system and unjustly override process >> without sudo quorum; ya'll better not step on any cracks! >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:53 AM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Johnny <mostmodernist(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Marc, >> >> No quorum you say? Sub-Section 3.2.2 "Maintaining Safe Space During >> Conflict Resolution" states that my ban would have had to been >> ratified online without quorum. >> >> The sudo room space, being part of Omni, is also subject to all Omni >> rules, including the Omni safer space policy which I linked >> previously. >> >> -- >> marc/juul > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss > >> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss