Re: [sudo-discuss] Erotica and women's bodies

Part of me doesn't want to step into this, but I feel this thread is not about openness and learning, but being heard. It's been said elsewhere that anyone who thinks that masturbation is inferior to sex hasn't been doing it right. While I agree with the educational intent behind that message, I think that there's a negativity both in the phrasing of that statement as well as comments on this list (on all sides!) that is not compatible with our shared goal of building community. I'm going to talk frankly, and if you are not cool with that please skip below. No one needs art, or comedy, or horror, or tragedy: but many people would rather have these things in their lives rather than life itself. We need to decide, in this community, between "your kink is OK" vs "your kink is OK (way the fuck over there)". There's lots of people who can see both the exploitation of women (and children) in porn and pR0n as a real problem, and there are people who work in porn who are subverting and challenging that. At one point I used to be pretty positive about e.g. Kink.com, and recently I've had real problems both in the focus of their output and in their behind-the-scenes treatment of actors. If you are a learning growing person, you need to be able to change your views, or at least be open to the fact that you don't have all the facts. Louis CK has an onstage bit where he talks about how he learned to masturbate as a kid, and when he learned how his best friend masturbated. He was using just two fingers, and when he realized he could use his whole hand, get more surface area and grip, he was astounded how much better that was. He also was weirded out a bit how his friend masturbated, grinding on the floor. The point is, is that masturbation is just a word, a word that doesn't really say anything. Both men and women (can) do it, and unless (or maybe especially) if you are TG, there's not going to be a lot in common there. So instead of tearing our community apart over subjects like this, lets all agree that any form of labor, be it dangerous or unhealthy conditions, or exploitative wages, can result in abused people- be it in porn or in sweatshops or slavery. We all, I hope, want to end exploitation and slavery in this world, and we all will have different approaches to that. If so, lets remember to value the good intent of others, and take the temperature level down. The levels of anger on this list are really shutting me down from participating, and while that may be cool WRT me and my (wealthy white male) opinions, I'm not cool if that is shutting down people less brave and less privileged than myself. It's a shame that some sexually themed events seem to attract some poorly socialized people who, to Sonja's point, might be able to have more opportunities at sex if they could overcome their interpersonal issues: and we ALL could be better at the interpersonal thing. We need both good teachers, and well intentioned students. Going into things, I never know what sort of (or how in orientation, as teacher or student, in the) classroom I'm going to be facing. But I, for one, want to learn how to be a better person, to learn how to better enjoy my own body and bring enjoyment to others, and most importantly to share my toys, because shared toys are more fun. In short: fix this. Come to consensus. Cause you guys are harshing my mellow. Matt (H, hbergeronx)