2 Dec
2013
2 Dec
'13
8:13 p.m.
ChrisBee: What you SAID was this:
"Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read discussions about
this based around "how safe is so-and-so compared to such-and-such area"
I think "Wow, if that isn't privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I
don't know what is." Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just
saying."
So if what you SAID is not what you MEANT, now's your chance to un-SAY it.
As my friends around here know, my safety-sense is calibrated to err on
the side of false-positives, and on that particular occasion I got a
false-negative, with the result that I and the person I was with got
held up at gunpoint. The gal who was physically assaulted and robbed of
her tablet was sitting in front of DeLauer's, and three assailants were
involved. The guy who got his windows smashed (twice) was parked
outside SR.
So: How much paranoia is justified, or should we get concealed-carry
permits and shoot any random JoeBob who approaches us on the streets at
night? Or should we wear pistols in holsters and hope that visible
deterrence is worth a damn against hardened criminals who might be
cranked up on meth?
The fact that you've been robbed, you've had friends who've been robbed,
and had a couple of friends die (presumably shot) (someone I knew also
died from a gang shooting) should, if anything, disabuse you of the
attitude that "being aware of your surroundings" is sufficient to avoid
an early meet-up with the Grim Reaper.
But instead you come up with this in your latest missive: "[don't']
assume everything is going to be fine if, say, you decide to send some
drunk texts while walking through Ghost Town at 3 am."
Excuse me but I've never been drunk in my life, and I don't even own a
cellphone (I get all the surveillance I want for my taxpayer dollars,
why pay another $600/year for even more?). The guy I was with wasn't
drunk or texting either. The gal who got assaulted and robbed wasn't
drunk; she was reading on her tablet, but it was at a bus stop in a
brightly lit area with lots of people coming & going. The guy whose car
windows got smashed: hmm, should his car have been more paranoid?, or
should his car get a concealed-carry permit?
In point of fact some parts of Oakland ARE safer than others. Look up
the crime maps and see for yourself. Whether, on balance, SR should
locate in whatever-neighborhood depends on a lot of things including
affordable space and access to public transport, and I'm not opposed to
taking calculated risks or making tradeoffs. But there's a world of
difference between _that_ and a smug callous attitude toward other
people's safety and other peoples' lives.
As for keeping the personal attacks out of it, you bloody well fired the
first shot, or rather, tossed a big honking hand-grenade of a personal
attack with your line about "privilege/entitlement/self-absorption." So
don't be surprised at the blowback.
-G.
=====
On 13-12-02-Mon 7:17 PM, Chris Bee wrote:
What I meant was that if you spend any amount of time
in Oakland it
behooves you to be aware of your surroundings and not assume
everything is going to be fine if, say, you decide to send some drunk
texts while walking through Ghost Town at 3 am. I realize that not
every "I got robbed in Oakland" story starts like this but you'd be
surprised at how many do.
BTW I am not the douchebag you seem to think I am. I've been robbed
(in Temescal no less), had close friends robbed, even had a couple
friends die as a result of shit like this so it's something I'm pretty
familiar with. I'm not saying what I'm saying lightly, I'm saying this
because I don't want sudoers to think that one part of Oakland is
necessarily safer or less safe than another part. So let's keep the
personal attacks out of it, it's a shitty thing to go through but we
shouldn't take shots at each other.
-chrisbee
On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 6:54 PM, GtwoG PublicOhOne
<g2g-public01(a)att.net <mailto:g2g-public01@att.net>> wrote:
Re. Sonja:
Exactly what I've done: not gone back to SudoRoom after having had
a gun pointed at my guts right in the doorway. Chances are at
least one person reading this is pleased with that outcome, but at
least four I know aren't.
Re. ChrisBee:
Right, blame the fucking victims, three or four of us that I know
of who've been robbed, assaulted, or had car windows smashed and
stuff stolen coming & going from SR or parked nearby, and possibly
one or two I missed.
Let's see, where have we heard your line of bullshit before?...
she shouldn't have been wearing those clothes either...? I take
it you agree with that too.
I'll quote you directly for what comes next, just so the context
of my reply is clear:
"Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read discussions
about this based around "how safe is so-and-so compared to
such-and-such area" I think "Wow, if that isn't
privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I don't know what is."
Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying."
So it's "privilege/entitlement/self-absorption" to value being in
a safe location where you're less likely to be subjected to
violence on the street? I'm going to say something to you that I
haven't said to anyone in a damn long time: Go fuck yourself.
-G.
=====
On 13-12-02-Mon 6:02 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
Yeah but what if taking responsibility for
your safety means not
going where you've been robbed before?
On Monday, December 2, 2013, Chris Bee wrote:
(shakes head, sighs)
I've said it before and I'll say it again...in most cases,
putting the onus of personal safety on a neighborhood is
totally missing the point that YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR
OWN SAFETY, full stop. Saying that you are (relatively) more
or less safe depending on where you are is...is...well, it's
wrong thinking on so many levels that I don't even know where
to begin.
Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read
discussions about this based around "how safe is so-and-so
compared to such-and-such area" I think "Wow, if that isn't
privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I don't know what
is." Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying. I
like and respect my sudo peoples...a lot. That's why I'm
pointing this out. I don't want anyone to be lulled into a
false sense of security/anxiety by thinking that just because
you're in one area bad shit is less prone to happen to you,
or vice versa. It's on all of us to be aware of what's going
on around us and to be prepared to deal with whatever
situations may come our way, alone or otherwise. Good
Samaritans notwithstanding, the cops are...well, the odds of
them being there when you "need" them (I personally don't)
are next to nil, and they only seem to make things
complicated after the fact.
What we should be focused on is locating an affordable space
that meets the needs of BAPS/sudo/CCL.
Sorry if I seem a little impatient but I've seen too many
important discussions get derailed like this, and right now I
think this is pretty high on our list of immediate concerns.
And again, If anyone wants to straighten me out on this issue
I'm all ears/eyes.
Respectfully,
-chrisbee
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Sonja Trauss
<sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Oh man I'm I total idiot, I just realized where 8th and
Alice is - I saw "8th st" and "near BART" and thought
you
were talking about w Oakland BART.
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Pete Forsyth wrote:
Sonja, given that -- as you say -- West Oakland is
"pretty mixed" racially and culturally, what is it
that leads you to conclude that Amber was talking
about black people, and commenting on race?
Pete
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Sonja Trauss
<sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah you need to give black people more credit.
Did you know, some of them like coffee shops
also? some of them can read? Some of them have
computers? Some of them might become sudo
members? Black people are pretty similar to white
people and like lots of the same things!!! Wow.
In any case w. O. Is pretty mixed. There are lots
burners and anarchists there that would like sudo
room too. My roommate Randall will be there every
day if you move to 8th and Alice.
Listen if anyone on this list is actually worried
about the harmful effects of gentrification, I'm
happy to brainstorm how to accomplish these
two specific goals:
Under no circumstances should the west
Oakland housing projects move or be converted.
(This will not be a real concern for 25 years,
but still)
Make new building in w o very very easy. The main
attractive feature of w O is cheapness of rent.
We still have plenty of empty space. There is no
reason that supply tightness should cause rents
to rise for 50 more years SO LONG AS ANTI
GENTRIFICATION concerns DONT PREVENT NEW BUILDING.
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Pete Forsyth wrote:
Everybody has different views on
gentrification. But speaking for myself, the
kind that bothers me is the high-security
condos with on-site parking where rich people
get cheap real estate and then have zero
incentive or inclination to engage with their
neighbors. They drive to work, drive to Whole
Foods, and in between sit behind bars on
their balconies while their neighbors push
shopping carts by their fortresslike front
doors to the recycling center.
Sudo Room *exists* to build community. It may
not build the kind of community that
everybody wants to participate in, but it
does offer opportunities that don't exist
absent a hacker space. It's hard for me to
imagine Sudo Room doing damage to its
neighborhood, and even if something
unexpected happened, I think its community
would act quickly to correct the problem.
Pete
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 8:45 AM,
AnimationAmber .
<amberyadaanimation(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It should be noted that aiming for a
space in a "less-gentrified" neighborhood
does overlook the possibility that Sudo's
presence would have a gentrifying effect.
Thoughts?
-amber
On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:06 PM, Marc
Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
Matt, Jenny and myself went and
looked at another space that could
potentially be a new sudo space.
We've started gathering information
about it here:
https://sudoroom.org/wiki/8th_and_Alice
My personal feeling about the space is:
This is an awesome space with lots of
natural light. It addresses two of
the major concerns raised about The
Omni in being two blocks from BART in
a neighborhood that seems/feels safer
than the area around MacArthur BART,
and in being located in a less
gentrified neighborhood. The one
drawback in comparing it to the
current space and The Omni is the
lack of a big separate common area
for events. It is _very_ similar to
Noisebridge in almost every way.
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