2 Dec
2013
2 Dec
'13
7:22 p.m.
Whoa! I don't think Chris is saying 'Blame the victim' at all. We've
probably all been in dicey situations and been threatened at the very
least, emotions run high on this issue but I'd urge you not to channel your
anger around that on Chris. To my mind, he's just saying we all have to be
aware of our surroundings and safety no matter where we are, which makes
sense. Not that its the victim's fault. As Bruce Schneier has outlined,
there are tradeoffs between freedom and safety that we navigate every day -
sometimes we suffer because of it, and that fucking sucks, but does that
mean we all should move to the suburbs? I've been robbed in my own home,
which feels a damn sight safer than walking down Broadway, and I think that
was Chris's point. Please don't accuse him of siding with muggers or some
such sentiment. No one's going there -
Love,
David
On Monday, December 2, 2013, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote:
Re. Sonja:
Exactly what I've done: not gone back to SudoRoom after having had a gun
pointed at my guts right in the doorway. Chances are at least one person
reading this is pleased with that outcome, but at least four I know aren't.
Re. ChrisBee:
Right, blame the fucking victims, three or four of us that I know of
who've been robbed, assaulted, or had car windows smashed and stuff stolen
coming & going from SR or parked nearby, and possibly one or two I missed.
Let's see, where have we heard your line of bullshit before?... she
shouldn't have been wearing those clothes either...? I take it you agree
with that too.
I'll quote you directly for what comes next, just so the context of my
reply is clear:
"Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read discussions about
this based around "how safe is so-and-so compared to such-and-such area" I
think "Wow, if that isn't privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I
don't know what is." Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just
saying."
So it's "privilege/entitlement/self-absorption" to value being in a safe
location where you're less likely to be subjected to violence on the
street? I'm going to say something to you that I haven't said to anyone in
a damn long time: Go fuck yourself.
-G.
=====
On 13-12-02-Mon 6:02 PM, Sonja Trauss wrote:
Yeah but what if taking responsibility for your safety means not going
where you've been robbed before?
On Monday, December 2, 2013, Chris Bee wrote:
(shakes head, sighs)
I've said it before and I'll say it again...in most cases, putting the
onus of personal safety on a neighborhood is totally missing the point that
YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, full stop. Saying that you are
(relatively) more or less safe depending on where you are is...is...well,
it's wrong thinking on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin.
Feel free to disagree with me, but when I hear/read discussions about
this based around "how safe is so-and-so compared to such-and-such area" I
think "Wow, if that isn't privilege/entitlement/self-absorption then I
don't know what is." Not saying that any of you are, but I'm just saying. I
like and respect my sudo peoples...a lot. That's why I'm pointing this out.
I don't want anyone to be lulled into a false sense of security/anxiety by
thinking that just because you're in one area bad shit is less prone to
happen to you, or vice versa. It's on all of us to be aware of what's going
on around us and to be prepared to deal with whatever situations may come
our way, alone or otherwise. Good Samaritans notwithstanding, the cops
are...well, the odds of them being there when you "need" them (I personally
don't) are next to nil, and they only seem to make things complicated after
the fact.
What we should be focused on is locating an affordable space that meets
the needs of BAPS/sudo/CCL.
Sorry if I seem a little impatient but I've seen too many important
discussions get derailed like this, and right now I think this is pretty
high on our list of immediate concerns.
And again, If anyone wants to straighten me out on this issue I'm all
ears/eyes.
Respectfully,
-chrisbee
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Oh man I'm I total idiot, I just realized where 8th and Alice is - I saw
"8th st" and "near BART" and thought you were talking about w
Oakland
BART.
On Tuesday, November 26, 2013, Pete Forsyth wrote:
Sonja, given that -- as you say -- West Oakland is "pretty mixed" racially
and culturally, what is it that leads you to conclude that Amber was
talking about black people, and commenting on race?
Pete
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Sonja Trauss <sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote:
Yeah you need to give black people more credit. Did you know, some of them
like coffee shops also? some of them can read? Some of them have computers?
Some of them might become sudo members? Black people are pretty similar to
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