Re: [sudo-discuss] sudo-discuss Digest, Vol 4, Issue 208

Saying that lock picking classes cause burglary is like saying that karate classes cause assault. -Jehan Tremback On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Cyrus Farivar &lt;cfarivar(a)gmail.com <mailto:cfarivar@gmail.com>> wrote: FWIW?I'm in the process right now of writing up a short brief on the whole thing for Ars Technica, and am pointing out how lock picking has long been a part of hacker culture. If you have a statement, I can include/add it. -C -- Cyrus Farivar "suh-ROOS FAR-ih-var" Journalist and radio producer | cyrusfarivar.com <http://cyrusfarivar.com> Author, "The Internet of Elsewhere" | internetofelsewhere.com <http://internetofelsewhere.com> US: +1 510 394 5485 <tel:%2B1%20510%20394%205485> (m) | Twitter/Skype: cfarivar "Being a good writer is 3% talent, 97% not being distracted by the Internet." cfarivar(a)cfarivar.org <mailto:cfarivar@cfarivar.org> On Thursday, February 28, 2013 at 12:31 PM, sudo-discuss-request(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:sudo-discuss-request@lists.sudoroom.org> wrote: > Send sudo-discuss mailing list submissions to > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss or, via email, > send a message with subject or body 'help' to > sudo-discuss-request(a)lists.sudoroom.org > <mailto:sudo-discuss-request@lists.sudoroom.org> > > You can reach the person managing the list at > sudo-discuss-owner(a)lists.sudoroom.org > <mailto:sudo-discuss-owner@lists.sudoroom.org> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more > specific than "Re: Contents of sudo-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Eddan Katz) 2. Re: FUD > around Lockpicking class (Eddan Katz) 3. Re: FUD around > Lockpicking class (Anon195714) 4. Re: FUD around Lockpicking > class (Eddan Katz) 5. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (Shawn > Lesniak) 6. Re: FUD around Lockpicking class (mark burdett) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >

> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:22:20 -0800 From: Eddan Katz > &lt;eddan(a)clear.net <mailto:eddan@clear.net>> To: > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> Subject: Re: > [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class Message-ID: > &lt;512FA05C.7070407(a)clear.net <mailto:512FA05C.7070407@clear.net>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > It would be worth our while for someone to draft a short > statement that can be posted on the Workshop Weekend website or > as a Sudo Room blog post. I'd be willing to help if someone did a > first draft. So lame of Jean Quan to not even look into it. > > In sum, I think there are two major elements to committing a > crime - the act itself and the intent. In order to have both, you > need knowledge. There's nothing in here about the socially > positive reasons why you'd want to teach that. Take the common > experience everyone can relate to of locking yourself out of your > house, car, office, etc.. People need to know how to pick locks > most certainly in circumstances that are authorized and often in > the case of an emergency. We may want to clarify that in regards > to intent - we have the opposite motivation to teach people these > skills. It will go a long way to explicitly say that we by no > means condone the use of those skills for criminal purposes. > > We should post it and send it directly to the authors of the > articles before the end of the day, so that a further story can > be written about it. May also want to notify Susan Mernit @ > Oakland Local to get a little more fair and balanced reporting. > > > > On 2/27/13 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu wrote: >> more: >> >> http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_22683660/oakland-mayor-jean-q… >> >> >> >>

>> &lt;mattsenate(a)gmail.com <mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com> >> <mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> It's awesome, free press! >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren >> &lt;rustylindgren(a)gmail.com <mailto:rustylindgren@gmail.com> >> <mailto:rustylindgren@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of >> "journalism" I have ever seen. >> >> Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a lock-picking >> school(actually it teaches you way more), and that this is just >> a cheaper version of that? (see: >> http://www.lock411.com/training.html). >> >> Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled >> lock-picking, because it's a waste of time. >> >> Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, go to >> the shooting range, and buy ninja swords just about anywhere in >> Oakland, but picking a Masterlock is "appalling". >> >> -Rusty >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu >> &lt;anca(a)techliminal.com <mailto:anca@techliminal.com> >> <mailto:anca@techliminal.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that people >> are learning how to pick locks this weekend. >> >> http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9010047 >> >> >>

>> >> http://m.oaklandlocal.com/article/oaklands-mayor-quan-apologizes-mentioning… >> >> >>

>> >> >> -- -=-=-=- Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal anca(a)techliminal.com >> <mailto:anca@techliminal.com> <mailto:anca@techliminal.com> M: >> (510) 220-6660 <tel:%28510%29%20220-6660> >> <tel:%28510%29%20220-6660> http://techliminal.com | T: >> @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal >> <http://facebook.com/techliminal> >> <http://facebook.com/techliminal> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> >> >> >> -- Cheers, >> >> Rusty Lindgren ** >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... URL: > <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/1557d9be/attachment-0001.html> > > >

> > Message: 2 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 10:35:48 -0800 From: Eddan Katz > &lt;eddan(a)clear.net <mailto:eddan@clear.net>> To: > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> Subject: Re: > [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class Message-ID: > &lt;512FA384.6050105(a)clear.net <mailto:512FA384.6050105@clear.net>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > Chicago Lock v. Fanberg is the case I was telling you about last > night, J.D. - > http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17605115413487325945. > >

> locks. Chicago Lock loses on its trade secret misappropriation > claim. Here's an excerpt from the facts of the case - > > Appellant Victor Fanberg, the son of locksmith Morris Fanberg and > a locksmith in his own right, has published a number of > locksmith manuals for conventional locks. Realizing that no > compilation had been made of tubular lock key codes, in 1975 > Fanberg advertised in a locksmith journal,/Locksmith > Ledger,/requesting that individual locksmiths transmit to him > serial number-key code correlations in their possession in > exchange for a copy of a complete compilation when finished. A > number of locksmiths complied, and in late 1976 Fanberg and his > father began to sell a two-volume publication of tubular lock > codes, including those of Ace locks, entitled "A-Advanced > Locksmith's Tubular Lock Codes." In 1976 and 1977 Fanberg > advertised in the manuals in the/Locksmith Ledger/for $49.95 and > indicated that it would be supplemented as new correlations > became known./See/Excerpt at 95-98. About 350 manuals had been > sold at the time of trial. The District Court found that Fanberg > "had lost or surrendered control over persons who could purchase > the books,"/id./at 98, meaning that nonlocksmiths could acquire > the code manuals. > > The books contain correlations which would allow a person > equipped with a tubular key grinding machine to make duplicate > keys for any listed Ace lock if the serial number of the lock was > known. On some models, the serial numbers appear on the exterior > of the lock face. Thus, Fanberg's manuals would make it > considerably easier4*403(and less expensive) for a person to > obtain (legitimately or illegitimately) duplicate keys to Ace > locks without going through the Company's screening process. This > is what caused consternation to the Company and some of its > customers. At no time did Fanberg seek, or the Company grant, > permission to compile and sell the key codes. Nor did the > individual locksmiths seek authorization from the Company or > their customers before transmitting their key code data to > Fanberg. > > > > On 2/27/13 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu wrote: >> more: >> >> http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_22683660/oakland-mayor-jean-q… >> >> >> >>

>> &lt;mattsenate(a)gmail.com <mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com> >> <mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> It's awesome, free press! >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren >> &lt;rustylindgren(a)gmail.com <mailto:rustylindgren@gmail.com> >> <mailto:rustylindgren@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of >> "journalism" I have ever seen. >> >> Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a lock-picking >> school(actually it teaches you way more), and that this is just >> a cheaper version of that? (see: >> http://www.lock411.com/training.html). >> >> Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled >> lock-picking, because it's a waste of time. >> >> Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, go to >> the shooting range, and buy ninja swords just about anywhere in >> Oakland, but picking a Masterlock is "appalling". >> >> -Rusty >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu >> &lt;anca(a)techliminal.com <mailto:anca@techliminal.com> >> <mailto:anca@techliminal.com>> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> >> Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that people >> are learning how to pick locks this weekend. >> >> http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9010047 >> >> >>

>> >> http://m.oaklandlocal.com/article/oaklands-mayor-quan-apologizes-mentioning… >> >> >>

>> >> >> -- -=-=-=- Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal anca(a)techliminal.com >> <mailto:anca@techliminal.com> <mailto:anca@techliminal.com> M: >> (510) 220-6660 <tel:%28510%29%20220-6660> >> <tel:%28510%29%20220-6660> http://techliminal.com | T: >> @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal >> <http://facebook.com/techliminal> >> <http://facebook.com/techliminal> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> >> >> >> -- Cheers, >> >> Rusty Lindgren ** >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... URL: > <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/ffd03295/attachment-0001.html> > > >

> > Message: 3 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:06:24 -0800 From: Anon195714 > &lt;anon195714(a)sbcglobal.net <mailto:anon195714@sbcglobal.net>> To: > Eddan Katz &lt;eddan(a)clear.net <mailto:eddan@clear.net>> Cc: > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> Subject: Re: > [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class Message-ID: > &lt;512FAAB0.7030205(a)sbcglobal.net > <mailto:512FAAB0.7030205@sbcglobal.net>> Content-Type: > text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > Hi Eddan- > > So was Ace asserting some kind of copyright or other IP control > over the correlations between the key codes and the locks? That's > funny: like copyrighting the names & numbers in the phone > book;-) > > What kind of lawful right would Ace have had to control those > codes? I don't see any. > > Classic case of "security by obscurity" in the face of the data > being openly available to anyone who just looks. That plus Ace > not having adequate steps in place to verify the identity of > people asking for duplicate keys ("security by laziness";-). (As > if any burglar is going to order keys and wait a week to get > them, when smashing a window provides instant gratification?) > > Meanwhile, it's since been demonstrated that Ace locks and other > tubular locks of same size, are tremendously easy to pick with a > tool anyone can make from a Bic pen housing. > > To my mind the main value of learning to pick locks is to become > more aware of one's own security environment: particularly the > degree to which we very often depend on crappy locks, and then, > with the newly-acquired situational awareness about locks, the > degree to which we very often leave open all manner of other > security holes in our physical surroundings. Nothing says > "replace your front door lock now!" like being able to pick it > with two paper clips in less than a minute. And then you look at > the big window right next to the front door... and the > un-shredded bills you put in the recycle bin with your name & > account numbers all over them... and the valuables in the back > seat of your car... etc. > > Next is the ability to get into places one has auth to be in: > such as when one locks oneself out of one's own house or car (or > in my case, PBX room on client site after hours, blush...). > > Equally is the ability to do likewise for friends (have done that > a handful of times). > > And from that, the generalization to our entire subculture, of > the degree of security awareness we should have all the time. > > Picking locks is like being able to disassemble, clean, and > reassemble a firearm: that skill does not make a law-abiding > person start contemplating committing murders. But it might make > one start to think more about personal safety on the streets at > night. > > Lastly, I'll fess up to something. I think it's cool as hell > when people who ordinarily hack around with software, start > hacking around with _mechanical_ stuff. I'm bigtime in favor of > people learning how to hack around with _mechanical_ stuff. > "Physical layer" as new playground. To this list add your home > appliances (the ones with motors in 'em) and rotary dial phones, > but that's another topic for another day. > > TTYs- > > -G. > > > ===== > > > On 13-02-28-Thu 10:35 AM, Eddan Katz wrote: >> Chicago Lock v. Fanberg is the case I was telling you about >> last night, J.D. - >> http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17605115413487325945. >> >>

>> locks. Chicago Lock loses on its trade secret misappropriation >> claim. Here's an excerpt from the facts of the case - >> >> Appellant Victor Fanberg, the son of locksmith Morris Fanberg >> and a locksmith in his own right, has published a number of >> locksmith manuals for conventional locks. Realizing that no >> compilation had been made of tubular lock key codes, in 1975 >> Fanberg advertised in a locksmith journal, /Locksmith Ledger,/ >> requesting that individual locksmiths transmit to him serial >> number-key code correlations in their possession in exchange >> for a copy of a complete compilation when finished. A number of >> locksmiths complied, and in late 1976 Fanberg and his father >> began to sell a two-volume publication of tubular lock codes, >> including those of Ace locks, entitled "A-Advanced Locksmith's >> Tubular Lock Codes." In 1976 and 1977 Fanberg advertised in the >> manuals in the /Locksmith Ledger/ for $49.95 and indicated that >> it would be supplemented as new correlations became known. >> /See/ Excerpt at 95-98. About 350 manuals had been sold at the >> time of trial. The District Court found that Fanberg "had lost >> or surrendered control over persons who could purchase the >> books," /id./ at 98, meaning that nonlocksmiths could acquire >> the code manuals. >> >> The books contain correlations which would allow a person >> equipped with a tubular key grinding machine to make duplicate >> keys for any listed Ace lock if the serial number of the lock >> was known. On some models, the serial numbers appear on the >> exterior of the lock face. Thus, Fanberg's manuals would make >> it considerably easier4*403 (and less expensive) for a person >> to obtain (legitimately or illegitimately) duplicate keys to >> Ace locks without going through the Company's screening >> process. This is what caused consternation to the Company and >> some of its customers. At no time did Fanberg seek, or the >> Company grant, permission to compile and sell the key codes. >> Nor did the individual locksmiths seek authorization from the >> Company or their customers before transmitting their key code >> data to Fanberg. >> >> >> >> On 2/27/13 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu wrote: >>> more: >>> >>> http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_22683660/oakland-mayor-jean-q… >>> >>> >>> >>>

>>> &lt;mattsenate(a)gmail.com <mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com> >>> <mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> It's awesome, free press! >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren >>> &lt;rustylindgren(a)gmail.com <mailto:rustylindgren@gmail.com> >>> <mailto:rustylindgren@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of >>> "journalism" I have ever seen. >>> >>> Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a >>> lock-picking school(actually it teaches you way more), and >>> that this is just a cheaper version of that? (see: >>> http://www.lock411.com/training.html). >>> >>> Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled >>> lock-picking, because it's a waste of time. >>> >>> Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, go >>> to the shooting range, and buy ninja swords just about >>> anywhere in Oakland, but picking a Masterlock is >>> "appalling". >>> >>> -Rusty >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu >>> &lt;anca(a)techliminal.com <mailto:anca@techliminal.com> >>> <mailto:anca@techliminal.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi everyone, >>> >>> Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that people >>> are learning how to pick locks this weekend. >>> >>> http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9010047 >>> >>> >>>

>>> >>> http://m.oaklandlocal.com/article/oaklands-mayor-quan-apologizes-mentioning… >>> >>> >>>

>>> >>> >>> -- -=-=-=- Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal anca(a)techliminal.com >>> <mailto:anca@techliminal.com> <mailto:anca@techliminal.com> >>> M: (510) 220-6660 <tel:%28510%29%20220-6660> >>> <tel:%28510%29%20220-6660> http://techliminal.com | T: >>> @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal >>> <http://facebook.com/techliminal> >>> <http://facebook.com/techliminal> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >>> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- Cheers, >>> >>> Rusty Lindgren ** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >>> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >>> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >>> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... URL: > <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/b776beff/attachment-0001.html> > > >

> > Message: 4 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:22:28 -0800 From: Eddan Katz > &lt;eddan(a)clear.net <mailto:eddan@clear.net>> To: Anon195714 > &lt;anon195714(a)sbcglobal.net <mailto:anon195714@sbcglobal.net>> Cc: > &quot;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>" > &lt;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>> Subject: Re: > [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class Message-ID: > &lt;53E0AF57-F2E7-4B85-A7F6-825D45B24A58(a)clear.net > <mailto:53E0AF57-F2E7-4B85-A7F6-825D45B24A58@clear.net>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > They threw everything they could at him, and in the lower court, > the Trademark over the name (& logo?) of the company stuck a > bit, but was a loser. The trade secret claim, which is under > state unfair competition law, was decided in favor of the lock > company. Fanberg appealed. This is the opinion from the appellate > court reversing the lower court's decision that Fanberg had > misappropriated trade secrets. > > In order to qualify as a trade secret, you need only have > confidential stamps on it or physical barrier to secure the > what-not. Encrypting something would be a partial de facto way > of asserting trade secret protection, most definitely. What > counts as eligible to be protected as trade secrets? Most > accurately vague definition I can think of is know-how. People > often associate it with "the secret sauce" in Coke, Big Macs, > etc.. Many of you may have come across it in your employment > agreement laying out what you can't take with you when you > leave. > > sent from eddan.com <http://eddan.com> > > On Feb 28, 2013, at 11:06 AM, Anon195714 > &lt;anon195714(a)sbcglobal.net <mailto:anon195714@sbcglobal.net>> > wrote: > >> >> Hi Eddan- >> >> So was Ace asserting some kind of copyright or other IP >> control over the correlations between the key codes and the >> locks? That's funny: like copyrighting the names & numbers in >> the phone book;-) >> >> What kind of lawful right would Ace have had to control those >> codes? I don't see any. >> >> Classic case of "security by obscurity" in the face of the >> data being openly available to anyone who just looks. That plus >> Ace not having adequate steps in place to verify the identity >> of people asking for duplicate keys ("security by laziness";-). >> (As if any burglar is going to order keys and wait a week to >> get them, when smashing a window provides instant >> gratification?) >> >> Meanwhile, it's since been demonstrated that Ace locks and >> other tubular locks of same size, are tremendously easy to pick >> with a tool anyone can make from a Bic pen housing. >> >> To my mind the main value of learning to pick locks is to >> become more aware of one's own security environment: >> particularly the degree to which we very often depend on crappy >> locks, and then, with the newly-acquired situational awareness >> about locks, the degree to which we very often leave open all >> manner of other security holes in our physical surroundings. >> Nothing says "replace your front door lock now!" like being >> able to pick it with two paper clips in less than a minute. And >> then you look at the big window right next to the front door... >> and the un-shredded bills you put in the recycle bin with your >> name & account numbers all over them... and the valuables in >> the back seat of your car... etc. >> >> Next is the ability to get into places one has auth to be in: >> such as when one locks oneself out of one's own house or car >> (or in my case, PBX room on client site after hours, >> blush...). >> >> Equally is the ability to do likewise for friends (have done >> that a handful of times). >> >> And from that, the generalization to our entire subculture, of >> the degree of security awareness we should have all the time. >> >> Picking locks is like being able to disassemble, clean, and >> reassemble a firearm: that skill does not make a law-abiding >> person start contemplating committing murders. But it might >> make one start to think more about personal safety on the >> streets at night. >> >> Lastly, I'll fess up to something. I think it's cool as hell >> when people who ordinarily hack around with software, start >> hacking around with _mechanical_ stuff. I'm bigtime in favor of >> people learning how to hack around with _mechanical_ stuff. >> "Physical layer" as new playground. To this list add your home >> appliances (the ones with motors in 'em) and rotary dial >> phones, but that's another topic for another day. >> >> TTYs- >> >> -G. >> >> >> ===== >> >> >> On 13-02-28-Thu 10:35 AM, Eddan Katz wrote: >>> Chicago Lock v. Fanberg is the case I was telling you about >>> last night, J.D. - >>> http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17605115413487325945. >>> >>>

>>> the locks. Chicago Lock loses on its trade secret >>> misappropriation claim. Here's an excerpt from the facts of >>> the case - >>> >>> Appellant Victor Fanberg, the son of locksmith Morris >>> Fanberg and a locksmith in his own right, has published a >>> number of locksmith manuals for conventional locks. Realizing >>> that no compilation had been made of tubular lock key codes, >>> in 1975 Fanberg advertised in a locksmith journal, Locksmith >>> Ledger, requesting that individual locksmiths transmit to him >>> serial number-key code correlations in their possession in >>> exchange for a copy of a complete compilation when finished. >>> A number of locksmiths complied, and in late 1976 Fanberg and >>> his father began to sell a two-volume publication of tubular >>> lock codes, including those of Ace locks, entitled >>> "A-Advanced Locksmith's Tubular Lock Codes." In 1976 and 1977 >>> Fanberg advertised in the manuals in the Locksmith Ledger for >>> $49.95 and indicated that it would be supplemented as new >>> correlations became known. See Excerpt at 95-98. About 350 >>> manuals had been sold at the time of trial. The District >>> Court found that Fanberg "had lost or > surrendered control over persons who could purchase the books," > id. at 98, meaning that nonlocksmiths could acquire the code > manuals. >>> >>> The books contain correlations which would allow a person >>> equipped with a tubular key grinding machine to make >>> duplicate keys for any listed Ace lock if the serial number >>> of the lock was known. On some models, the serial numbers >>> appear on the exterior of the lock face. Thus, Fanberg's >>> manuals would make it considerably easier4*403 (and less >>> expensive) for a person to obtain (legitimately or >>> illegitimately) duplicate keys to Ace locks without going >>> through the Company's screening process. This is what caused >>> consternation to the Company and some of its customers. At no >>> time did Fanberg seek, or the Company grant, permission to >>> compile and sell the key codes. Nor did the individual >>> locksmiths seek authorization from the Company or their >>> customers before transmitting their key code data to >>> Fanberg. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2/27/13 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu wrote: >>>> more: >>>> >>>> http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_22683660/oakland-mayor-jean-q… >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>

>>>> &lt;mattsenate(a)gmail.com <mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com>> >>>> wrote: >>>>> It's awesome, free press! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren >>>>> &lt;rustylindgren(a)gmail.com >>>>> <mailto:rustylindgren@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>> Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece >>>>>> of "journalism" I have ever seen. >>>>>> >>>>>> Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a >>>>>> lock-picking school(actually it teaches you way more), >>>>>> and that this is just a cheaper version of that? (see: >>>>>> http://www.lock411.com/training.html). >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled >>>>>> lock-picking, because it's a waste of time. >>>>>> >>>>>> Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial >>>>>> arts, go to the shooting range, and buy ninja swords >>>>>> just about anywhere in Oakland, but picking a >>>>>> Masterlock is "appalling". >>>>>> >>>>>> -Rusty >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu >>>>>> &lt;anca(a)techliminal.com <mailto:anca@techliminal.com>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that >>>>>>> people are learning how to pick locks this weekend. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9010047 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://m.oaklandlocal.com/article/oaklands-mayor-quan-apologizes-mentioning… >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>

>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- -=-=-=- Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal >>>>>>> anca(a)techliminal.com <mailto:anca@techliminal.com> M: >>>>>>> (510) 220-6660 <tel:%28510%29%20220-6660> >>>>>>> http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F: >>>>>>> facebook.com/techliminal >>>>>>> <http://facebook.com/techliminal> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>>>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Cheers, >>>>>> >>>>>> Rusty Lindgren >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >>> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... URL: > <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/b3b9fea7/attachment-0001.html> > > >

> > Message: 5 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:49:45 -0800 From: Shawn > Lesniak &lt;moderkaka(a)gmail.com <mailto:moderkaka@gmail.com>> Cc: > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> Subject: Re: > [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class Message-ID: > &lt;512FB4D9.6070402(a)gmail.com <mailto:512FB4D9.6070402@gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On 2013-02-28 01:13, Anon195714 wrote:> >> Re. Shawn: >> >> In no way am I suggesting that we start "working with the city >> or law enforcement officers on reporting who shows up at events >> or assist them in doing so," any more than the radical Quakers >> did. > > I don't know anything about the radical Quakers and they are in > no way a litmus test for the right amount of cooperation with law > enforcement. You are in favor of undercover officers at sudoroom > events. I am uncomfortable with that in any amount. > >> What I _am_ advocating is to open the lines of communication >> and point out that if the city is truly concerned about badguys >> showing up, they can send someone along to hang out and observe >> for themselves. What they're going to see is a room full of >> geeks learning an oldschool mechanical skill. More likely they >> won't bother, in which case their objection can be dismissed as >> meaningless. > > The term city is ambiguous here. The mayor endorsed it at some > level, then some of her constituents were concerned. Some other > people signed up for the class. Oakland is a diverse city. > > The city government in cooperation with law enforcement is > deeply afraid of anarchists. What happens when they look into it > further and realize several known anarchists congregate at > sudoroom? Maybe you don't care because you're not an anarchist, > and I'm hesitant to air out my 'anarchist' credentials, but I've > been beaten by Oakland police for being a suspected anarchist. > I'm not comfortable with inviting anyone in for surveillance. In > addition, whether 'known gang members' are likely to show up or > not, the laws are no different for them than for us. If it were > my class, and someone told me to only teach white people or > people without tattoos or people who aren't wearing black shirts > or any other restrictions, I'd tell them to fuck off and if I > caught anyone surveilling them I'd kick them out. Safe space to > me means no LE in sudoroom, uniformed or undercover. > >> As for comparing "'known gang member'" to "the more privileged >> class": that's postmodern BS. The #1 killer of young black men >> in Oakland isn't police bullets but gang bullets. So where are >> the outraged protests in front of known gang enclaves, eh? This >> isn't an abstraction: a young black man I knew was killed in a >> drive-by. As for "privileged class," about 1/3 of SudoRoom >> members are unemployed, and many are borderline-homeless. A few >> more "privileges," such as full-time jobs that pay decent >> wages, would be a good thing. > > You don't have to kill someone to ruin their lives. Go out to > East Oakland and ask a few people what their experience with LE > is. Sit in a courtroom in Oakland for 2 hours and see what people > are in jail for. I've seen people spend 2 days in jail for riding > their bike on the sidewalk, which can lose you a job. I've had a > cop roll up on me aggressively while I was wearing a hood and > then immediately changed his demeanor when he saw I was white > and let me go. Life is different for PoC in Oakland. I've seen it > myself and I've spent the time talking to people who are > affected. > > This is why I fight to keep schools open, to improve access to > resources for everyone. You close a school, you open a jail. You > open a school, you close a jail. > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was > scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 946 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: > <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/eb819dff/attachment-0001.pgp> > > >

> > Message: 6 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:31:08 -0800 From: mark > burdett &lt;mark(a)510pen.org <mailto:mark@510pen.org>> To: Anon195714 > &lt;anon195714(a)sbcglobal.net <mailto:anon195714@sbcglobal.net>> Cc: > sudo-discuss &lt;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org>> Subject: Re: > [sudo-discuss] FUD around Lockpicking class Message-ID: > &lt;CALd=3MLX5DcFU3ThT3dzmCyiQu9OyJSS=mSoB73kRO0dpEvdxw(a)mail.gmail.com > <mailto:mSoB73kRO0dpEvdxw@mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type: > text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > No one is really inviting a detective, right? there are lots of > reasons not to. like, I assume many of us have a policy of only > talking to LE w/ our lawyers.. > > The "fundamentals of armed robbery" workshop suggested in the > articles could be quite informative! "fundamentals of computer > fraud and abuse" could be interesting too, although according to > https://data.oaklandnet.com/Public-Safety/CrimeWatch-Maps-Past-90-Days/ym6k… > >

> is quite a lot of robbery going on, hardly any "ACCESS > COMPUTER/ALTER/ETC DATA:DEVISE SCHEME/ETC DEFRAUD/ETC" > > --mark B. > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Anon195714 > &lt;anon195714(a)sbcglobal.net > <mailto:anon195714@sbcglobal.net>>wrote: > >> >> Yo's- >> >> On the other hand, the Mayor could send along a plain-clothes >> detective to hang out and keep an eye open for known gang >> members etc. "Just say Honeypot!", and we're doing the city a >> favor. >> >> OK, so a few recent crime anecdotes: >> >> = A close friend's car window was smashed on the side street >> while we were up at SudoRoom. = Another close friend's bike was >> stolen out of the common area. = A neighbor of mine's bike was >> stolen out of their garage today. = The officer who took the >> stolen bike report (Berkeley PD) said that the standard MO >> these days is for the robber to knock at the door, and if no >> answer, kick the door in. If the resident is away it becomes a >> burglary. If the resident is home, it becomes a home-invasion >> robbery or worse. = As another close friend of mine once said, >> "doors are a convenience for people who are polite." A strong >> lock on a strong door with a weak window nearby, is evidence of >> nothing more or less than a homeowner without the ability to >> imagine how baddies think. >> >> I don't see any lock-picking going on in any of those. As a >> method of committing crimes, lock-picking is obsolete. >> >> And I do see an opportunity for some positive outreach to >> Mayor Quan's office, re. the opportunity for having a detective >> attend the event. This would be similar to how Quaker activist >> groups handled their plans for protests, by keeping the >> relevant LE agencies informed. When I lived in New England, I >> saw this first-hand, and it worked. Protests organized by those >> groups were successful, every time. >> >> Does anyone here have good relations with anyone in Oakland >> city gov, and want to volunteer to get the lines of >> communication open? >> >> -G. >> >> >> ===== >> >> >> >> On 13-02-27-Wed 11:26 PM, Tommy York wrote: >> >> "OAKLAND -- One skill that appears all too common in Oakland >> these days is the ability to pick a lock. Burglaries jumped >> more than 40 percent last year, and not all of them involved >> window smashes." >> >> This is a horrific excuse for journalism. Not all burglaries >> involved window smashes? Oh really? And in that case, how many >> involved skilled lock picking? >> >> Mencken would be angry. >> >> - tommy ----------------- Thomas Riley York (???) 510.926.0510 >> <tel:510.926.0510> http://www.linkedin.com/in/tommyyork >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 11:20 PM, J.D. Zamfirescu >> &lt;zamfire(a)gmail.com <mailto:zamfire@gmail.com>>wrote: >> >>> more: >>> >>> >>> http://www.insidebayarea.com/breaking-news/ci_22683660/oakland-mayor-jean-q… >>> >>> >>> >>>

>>> &lt;mattsenate(a)gmail.com <mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com>>wrote: >>> >>>> It's awesome, free press! >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 9:40 PM, rusty lindgren >>>> &lt;rustylindgren(a)gmail.com <mailto:rustylindgren@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Oh dear gawd. This is possibly the most moronic piece of >>>>> "journalism" I have ever seen. >>>>> >>>>> Are they unaware of the fact that you can go to a >>>>> lock-picking school(actually it teaches you way more), >>>>> and that this is just a cheaper version of that? (see: >>>>> http://www.lock411.com/training.html). >>>>> >>>>> Also, virtually no crime in Oakland involves skilled >>>>> lock-picking, because it's a waste of time. >>>>> >>>>> Don't worry though, you can train in deadly martial arts, >>>>> go to the shooting range, and buy ninja swords just about >>>>> anywhere in Oakland, but picking a Masterlock is >>>>> "appalling". >>>>> >>>>> -Rusty >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Anca Mosoiu >>>>> &lt;anca(a)techliminal.com >>>>> <mailto:anca@techliminal.com>>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi everyone, >>>>>> >>>>>> Heads up. Looks like some folks aren't too happy that >>>>>> people are learning how to pick locks this weekend. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=9010047 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>

>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://m.oaklandlocal.com/article/oaklands-mayor-quan-apologizes-mentioning… >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>

>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- -=-=-=- Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal >>>>>> anca(a)techliminal.com <mailto:anca@techliminal.com> M: >>>>>> (510) 220-6660 <tel:%28510%29%20220-6660> >>>>>> <%28510%29%20220-6660> http://techliminal.com | T: >>>>>> @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal >>>>>> <http://facebook.com/techliminal> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Rusty Lindgren ** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >>> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >>> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >> mailing listsudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.orghttp >> <mailto:listsudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.orghttp>://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >>

>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss >> mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> >> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > scrubbed... URL: > <http://lists.sudoroom.org/pipermail/sudo-discuss/attachments/20130228/92793c0e/attachment.html> > > >

_______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto:sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss