Re: [sudo-discuss] Agenda Item for next week's meeting: ONL is not a member collective.

Non participation is a serious issue. I was mostly providing counter points to the other issues that were being brought up. I think it would be fair to ask for ONL to change its status due to the nature of the project (a once a month event) and the lack of participation. I just think the other points are invalid and wanted to gives my perspective on those. As far a rent is concerned I was not using Backspace's decision to finalize their contribution as less that than initial estimates before the sublease option was signed as a justification. I was only pointing out the fact that there is no bi-law or anything in our governance that I know of that would require them to reapply as the proposal states they must. On Sep 8, 2014 1:26 PM, "David Keenan" &lt;dkeenan44(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Hi Andrew and Batkid, the core issue is not the content of their show, > although it was distressing enough I felt the need to tack it on there. > > The core issue is that they slashed their rent, do not participate at > all in delegate meetings, dont pay their bills, dont really help out even > with setting up their own shows. Its profoundly unfair, offloads work and > financial responsibility onto others, and if every collective did that > there would be no omni. I am saying that they are not member collective of > the omni. > > Batkid and Andrew, given this, do you think they deserve to be full > voting delegates with as much voting power as Sudo Room or BAPS? > > Re: Backspace, I would rather not bridge this conversation into other > examples, but yes, Backspace reduced its rent by 50% and this was also > extremely probelmatic and came very close to stopping us from moving into > the Omni...If you recall Andrew, at the time, the precident of ONL first > unilaterally slashing its rent was actually cited by Backspace at the time > as a justifying precedent and rationale for Backspace cutting back its > contribution, too. Now though, you're saying that Backspace cutting back > its contrib justifies ONL doing it beforehand which doesn't really make > sense. Neither decision, by Backspace or ONL, was actually officially > consensed on by the group, you know? > > Unlike with ONL, the Backspace issue *was* discussed (although *not* > consensed nor brought to the point of decision) at a meeting, and more > germanely Backspace *did* continue to work with OOC to figure something > out, and, you will note, that now, Backspace is also *not* in its > space, and has to its credit figured out a plan at least to work more > flexibly within the rest of the building. And the OOC *is* able to rent > at least some of the space Backspace was going to be in and thereby make up > the $1000 of lost rent, ie via Rise Above, etc. > > When Backspace slashed the amount of their rent literally as I was > walking into a financial presentation for John it made my job extremely > difficult and almost sank the project, so I don't know that this is the > best example! > > David > > > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 9:26 AM, The Batkid &lt;batkid(a)gmx.com&gt; wrote: > >> I wouldn't kick ONL out on the street just yet. >> >> ONL is a variety show, they do all kinds of things. At the old space, >> they had Susie Cagle on to talk about her work interviewing >> the families of Oakland gunshot victims and restorative justice. >> >> Then everyone wore silly hats in a photobooth. >> >> I'm excited about Jean Quan appearing on ONL next month. >> >> *Sent:* Monday, September 08, 2014 at 9:19 AM >> *From:* niki &lt;niki.shelley(a)gmail.com&gt; >> *To:* "Andrew Lowe" &lt;andrew(a)lostways.com&gt; >> *Cc:* yar &lt;yardenack(a)gmail.com&gt;om>, &quot;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&quot; < >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt;gt;, &quot;omnilogistics(a)lists.riseup.net&quot; < >> omnilogistics(a)lists.riseup.net&gt; >> *Subject:* Re: [sudo-discuss] Agenda Item for next week's meeting: ONL >> is not a member collective. >> The argument is not that ONL is not radical enough, it's that the >> show was basically a free commercial for the mayoral candidates. Free, >> meaning, subsidized by the Omni and when I say the Omni I mean the groups >> that are currently contributing to making the Omni function. >> >> Creating a civic space for the community means engaging the community, >> not having politicians sit there and spout meaningless rhetoric at the >> community for two hours. >> >> If ONL wants to just be nothing more than an entertaining talk show, >> why have mayoral candidates on as guests? >> >> N >> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Andrew Lowe &lt;andrew(a)lostways.com&gt; >> wrote: >>> >>> I did not attend this event, but I have attended ONL events before. >>> ONL is a talk show, I'm not sure why not being political enough makes them >>> "offensive". I mean I will let them speak for them selves, but they are an >>> entertainment show, why would you expect a "debate" at a talk show? >>> >>> Also while it is true that ONL reduced their rent before singing the >>> sublease option, there still has been no official policy that says that >>> that action (which Backspace took as well, at the time) requires a >>> re-application. >>> >>> It would be great if ONL paid more, but keep in mind that we haven't >>> come up with a price for nightly rentals in the ballroom, when we do I >>> think it would be fair to evaluate ONL's contribution based on that. >>> >>> Anyway, just standing up for this show even if it isn't really my cup >>> of tea all the time, I think what ONL has been able to do with it is pretty >>> amazing, and to force them out because their show isn't radical enough in >>> the ways you want it to be would be a shame. >>> >>> --Andrew >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:33 AM, yar &lt;yardenack(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>> >> http://wiki.omni-oakland.org/w/ONL >>>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Charley Sheets &lt;rcsheets(a)acm.org&gt; >>>> wrote: >>>> > It seems like section 7 could use some additional detail. I for one >>>> > don't know what "Saturday's 9/6 ONL event" was, or why it would be >>>> > offensive. >>>> >>>> They had 3 mayoral candidates in the room (parker, tuman, siegel), but >>>> chose to interview one candidate at a time. Each candidate got an >>>> uninterrupted stump speech, pandering questions from the hosts, then 2 >>>> ad-hoc audience questions, and that was it. One even screened a >>>> commercial. >>>> >>>> I was disappointed and insulted because I'd heard it was going to be a >>>> "debate." Maybe it got distorted in the rumor-mill. But either way, >>>> this candidate-showcasing style of engagement is something people have >>>> fought against for ages. It's passive, undemocratic, and pointless. If >>>> we're going to engage with electoral politics we should know this >>>> history. Here's the League of Women Voters explaining why they stopped >>>> hosting presidential "debates" in 1988: >>>> http://www.lwv.org/press-releases/league-refuses-help-perpetrate-fraud >>>> >>>> Some more history: >>>> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_debates#D… >>>> >>>> I think at minimum, a debate needs to: >>>> >>>> * force candidates to interact with each other >>>> * invite all candidates at the same time >>>> * prioritize audience participation and engagement >>>> >>>> We missed an opportunity - we had them on our turf and did nothing new >>>> with them - but it's not too late. On October 11 they're hosting 3 >>>> more (schaaf, kaplan, quan). Maybe ONL will be open to input on how >>>> they conduct next month's event! Any Sudoers who want to ask tough >>>> questions on the record of present and future mayors on our turf, >>>> now's your chance to get involved. :) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> --------- >>> Andrew Lowe >>> http://www.lostways.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing >> list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > >