I did not attend this event, but I have attended ONL events before. ONL is a talk show, I'm not sure why not being political enough makes them "offensive". I mean I will let them speak for them selves, but they are an entertainment show, why would you expect a "debate" at a talk show? Also while it is true that ONL reduced their rent before singing the sublease option, there still has been no official policy that says that that action (which Backspace took as well, at the time) requires a re-application. It would be great if ONL paid more, but keep in mind that we haven't come up with a price for nightly rentals in the ballroom, when we do I think it would be fair to evaluate ONL's contribution based on that. Anyway, just standing up for this show even if it isn't really my cup of tea all the time, I think what ONL has been able to do with it is pretty amazing, and to force them out because their show isn't radical enough in the ways you want it to be would be a shame. --Andrew On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:33 AM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote: -- --------- Andrew Lowe http://www.lostways.com _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

I wouldn't kick ONL out on the street just yet. ONL is a variety show, they do all kinds of things. At the old space, they had Susie Cagle on to talk about her work interviewing the families of Oakland gunshot victims and restorative justice. Then everyone wore silly hats in a photobooth. I'm excited about Jean Quan appearing on ONL next month. *Sent:* Monday, September 08, 2014 at 9:19 AM *From:* niki &lt;niki.shelley(a)gmail.com&gt; *To:* "Andrew Lowe" &lt;andrew(a)lostways.com&gt; *Cc:* yar &lt;yardenack(a)gmail.com&gt;om>, &quot;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&quot; < sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt;gt;, &quot;omnilogistics(a)lists.riseup.net&quot; < omnilogistics(a)lists.riseup.net&gt; *Subject:* Re: [sudo-discuss] Agenda Item for next week's meeting: ONL is not a member collective. The argument is not that ONL is not radical enough, it's that the show was basically a free commercial for the mayoral candidates. Free, meaning, subsidized by the Omni and when I say the Omni I mean the groups that are currently contributing to making the Omni function. Creating a civic space for the community means engaging the community, not having politicians sit there and spout meaningless rhetoric at the community for two hours. If ONL wants to just be nothing more than an entertaining talk show, why have mayoral candidates on as guests? N On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Andrew Lowe &lt;andrew(a)lostways.com&gt; wrote: _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

Non participation is a serious issue. I was mostly providing counter points to the other issues that were being brought up. I think it would be fair to ask for ONL to change its status due to the nature of the project (a once a month event) and the lack of participation. I just think the other points are invalid and wanted to gives my perspective on those. As far a rent is concerned I was not using Backspace's decision to finalize their contribution as less that than initial estimates before the sublease option was signed as a justification. I was only pointing out the fact that there is no bi-law or anything in our governance that I know of that would require them to reapply as the proposal states they must. On Sep 8, 2014 1:26 PM, "David Keenan" &lt;dkeenan44(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > Hi Andrew and Batkid, the core issue is not the content of their show, > although it was distressing enough I felt the need to tack it on there. > > The core issue is that they slashed their rent, do not participate at all > in delegate meetings, dont pay their bills, dont really help out even with > setting up their own shows. Its profoundly unfair, offloads work and > financial responsibility onto others, and if every collective did that > there would be no omni. I am saying that they are not member collective of > the omni. > > Batkid and Andrew, given this, do you think they deserve to be full > voting delegates with as much voting power as Sudo Room or BAPS? > > Re: Backspace, I would rather not bridge this conversation into other > examples, but yes, Backspace reduced its rent by 50% and this was also > extremely probelmatic and came very close to stopping us from moving into > the Omni...If you recall Andrew, at the time, the precident of ONL first > unilaterally slashing its rent was actually cited by Backspace at the time > as a justifying precedent and rationale for Backspace cutting back its > contribution, too. Now though, you're saying that Backspace cutting back > its contrib justifies ONL doing it beforehand which doesn't really make > sense. Neither decision, by Backspace or ONL, was actually officially > consensed on by the group, you know? > > Unlike with ONL, the Backspace issue *was* discussed (although *not* > consensed nor brought to the point of decision) at a meeting, and more > germanely Backspace *did* continue to work with OOC to figure something > out, and, you will note, that now, Backspace is also *not* in its space, > and has to its credit figured out a plan at least to work more flexibly > within the rest of the building. And the OOC *is* able to rent at least > some of the space Backspace was going to be in and thereby make up the > $1000 of lost rent, ie via Rise Above, etc. > > When Backspace slashed the amount of their rent literally as I was > walking into a financial presentation for John it made my job extremely > difficult and almost sank the project, so I don't know that this is the > best example! > > David > > > > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 9:26 AM, The Batkid &lt;batkid(a)gmx.com&gt; wrote: > >> I wouldn't kick ONL out on the street just yet. >> >> ONL is a variety show, they do all kinds of things. At the old space, >> they had Susie Cagle on to talk about her work interviewing >> the families of Oakland gunshot victims and restorative justice. >> >> Then everyone wore silly hats in a photobooth. >> >> I'm excited about Jean Quan appearing on ONL next month. >> >> *Sent:* Monday, September 08, 2014 at 9:19 AM >> *From:* niki &lt;niki.shelley(a)gmail.com&gt; >> *To:* "Andrew Lowe" &lt;andrew(a)lostways.com&gt; >> *Cc:* yar &lt;yardenack(a)gmail.com&gt;om>, &quot;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&quot; < >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt;gt;, &quot;omnilogistics(a)lists.riseup.net&quot; < >> omnilogistics(a)lists.riseup.net&gt; >> *Subject:* Re: [sudo-discuss] Agenda Item for next week's meeting: ONL >> is not a member collective. >> The argument is not that ONL is not radical enough, it's that the show >> was basically a free commercial for the mayoral candidates. Free, meaning, >> subsidized by the Omni and when I say the Omni I mean the groups that are >> currently contributing to making the Omni function. >> >> Creating a civic space for the community means engaging the community, >> not having politicians sit there and spout meaningless rhetoric at the >> community for two hours. >> >> If ONL wants to just be nothing more than an entertaining talk show, why >> have mayoral candidates on as guests? >> >> N >> >> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Andrew Lowe &lt;andrew(a)lostways.com&gt; >> wrote: >>> >>> I did not attend this event, but I have attended ONL events before. >>> ONL is a talk show, I'm not sure why not being political enough makes them >>> "offensive". I mean I will let them speak for them selves, but they are an >>> entertainment show, why would you expect a "debate" at a talk show? >>> >>> Also while it is true that ONL reduced their rent before singing the >>> sublease option, there still has been no official policy that says that >>> that action (which Backspace took as well, at the time) requires a >>> re-application. >>> >>> It would be great if ONL paid more, but keep in mind that we haven't >>> come up with a price for nightly rentals in the ballroom, when we do I >>> think it would be fair to evaluate ONL's contribution based on that. >>> >>> Anyway, just standing up for this show even if it isn't really my cup >>> of tea all the time, I think what ONL has been able to do with it is pretty >>> amazing, and to force them out because their show isn't radical enough in >>> the ways you want it to be would be a shame. >>> >>> --Andrew >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:33 AM, yar &lt;yardenack(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>> >> http://wiki.omni-oakland.org/w/ONL >>>> >>>> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Charley Sheets &lt;rcsheets(a)acm.org&gt; >>>> wrote: >>>> > It seems like section 7 could use some additional detail. I for one >>>> > don't know what "Saturday's 9/6 ONL event" was, or why it would be >>>> > offensive. >>>> >>>> They had 3 mayoral candidates in the room (parker, tuman, siegel), but >>>> chose to interview one candidate at a time. Each candidate got an >>>> uninterrupted stump speech, pandering questions from the hosts, then 2 >>>> ad-hoc audience questions, and that was it. One even screened a >>>> commercial. >>>> >>>> I was disappointed and insulted because I'd heard it was going to be a >>>> "debate." Maybe it got distorted in the rumor-mill. But either way, >>>> this candidate-showcasing style of engagement is something people have >>>> fought against for ages. It's passive, undemocratic, and pointless. If >>>> we're going to engage with electoral politics we should know this >>>> history. Here's the League of Women Voters explaining why they stopped >>>> hosting presidential "debates" in 1988: >>>> http://www.lwv.org/press-releases/league-refuses-help-perpetrate-fraud >>>> >>>> Some more history: >>>> >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_debates#D… >>>> >>>> I think at minimum, a debate needs to: >>>> >>>> * force candidates to interact with each other >>>> * invite all candidates at the same time >>>> * prioritize audience participation and engagement >>>> >>>> We missed an opportunity - we had them on our turf and did nothing new >>>> with them - but it's not too late. On October 11 they're hosting 3 >>>> more (schaaf, kaplan, quan). Maybe ONL will be open to input on how >>>> they conduct next month's event! Any Sudoers who want to ask tough >>>> questions on the record of present and future mayors on our turf, >>>> now's your chance to get involved. :) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> --------- >>> Andrew Lowe >>> http://www.lostways.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing >> list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > sudo-discuss mailing list > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > >