8 Feb
2015
8 Feb
'15
1:54 p.m.
It's really not cool to shut people down for speaking out against the continual
barrage of complaining, mansplaining, boundary-transgressing, correcting and directing
many of us experience daily from primarily - yes! surprise! cis men! [1]
In particular, tone policing [2] someone in the very thread where they're bravely
calling out someone who sexually assaulted them is fucked up! Wrong way y'all! I am so
grateful to Ryan for calling out so much of the bullshit I often just let slide, suffering
silently. We really need to be more compassionate, kind, and forgiving - but also strong
in setting boundaries and reinforcing our values if we endeavor to create a safe space at
the Omni.
We still have a long way to go, and it's gonna be hard, and painful, and, and...
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
augh. I feel so exhausted, angry, and frustrated right now.
I love you all, let's please do better and level up our empathy.
<3
Jenny
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
[2] http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument
On 02/08/2015 12:00 PM, Soenke wrote:
Sorry for the typos. Migrane.
I wholly agree with Mary.
This entire thread has become entirely unconstructive.
Please, let's abandon ship?
~ Korl
510.671.0824
500px.com/soenke-v
On Feb 8, 2015, 11:56 AM, at 11:56 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
This.
What.
Woah.
Seriously, Ryan?
Why do you think you're entitled to speak to people that way?
Especially in within the Omni community?
Why would you for second think that this a forum that would tolerate
any form of prejudice or bigotry from it's members, when that is
exactly why we are here... ?
This just baffles me.
~ Korl
510.671.0824
500px.com/soenke-v
On Feb 8, 2015, 11:50 AM, at 11:50 AM, Steve Bloom
<stevebloom55(a)gmail.com> wrote:
K.,
to
>>>> see that.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Ryan, why do you think I identify with or
consider appropriate as
applied
to me the term "cis man"? I don't. Please don't direct it toward me
or
use it to refer to me again. TIA. Otherwise, my effort to be helpful
and
constructive having crashed and burned, I'm done with this discussion.
-- Steve
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Mary Ward <maryhbw(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The
The point is that this conversation has become
destructive. I do not
think
> pointing out people in the discuss list if helpful, only hurtful. CDC
fucking
list may be a better place for in depth
conversations about bans.
Sincerely,
Mary
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 8, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
TBC I don't need a cis man telling me how I should proceed after I
was
sexually assaulted.
TBC I don't need a cis man euphemizing a sexual predator's behavior.
TBC I don't need a cis man "researching" the situation to see if
there
were more incidents.
TBC I don't need a cis man adding to the tone policing in this
thread.
>
> TBC you are mansplaining right now Steve, and that's the last > thing I need right now.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Steve Bloom
<stevebloom55(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> TBC, yar, your statement necessarily had implications for what Al
said.
> It could have been phrased to not do that
even while still
expressing
> support for Ryan. Korl can think it was
unconstructive without
taking it
> personally. I don't think the subsequent
statement that Korl has
something
> to learn here was helpful.
>
> That said, let's not lose track of the fact that Perry has serious
> loss-of-boundary issues when he drinks (which seems to be
frequently). My
> own experience (two experiences actually) is
that he doesn't single
people
> out for that (I got it too), but it's
absolutely the case that the
same
> behavior that was non-threatening for me will
be very threatening
for
> others. (Something I need to bear in mind
going foward; probably I
should
> have asked if there have been other such
incidents.)
>
> I'm a little murky on the process here. I mean, this open
discussion
> isn't going to be used for some sort of
vote, right?
>
> Assuming this from David K. is correct --
>
> "Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban -
> pending conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space
> violation which is what this is."
>
> -- then it seems that all Ryan has to do is say that Perry is
banned,
> following which a conflict mediation process
is initiated. If Ryan
didn't
> feel that his and (as related) Ribre's
particular experience was
sufficient
>> and so was asking others, then what Jenny and I added (and David >> although he didn't provide details of
the incidents) seems like
more
than
may
> enough.
>
> Returning to Ryan's original comment --
>
> "Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
mediation,
> as his actions clearly violate our safe space
policy and he refused
to take
>> action to alter his behaviour."
>>
>> -- it seems to me that maybe it not being phrased as a statement have
>> engendered confusion. So maybe just do that, Ryan? TBC,
apparently
you
I
> don't need to ask anyone, and as noted if
what you wanted was
corroboration
>> you have plenty.
>>
>> As for the policy discussion, if Al or anyone wants to pursue that >
suggest they do it in a different thread.
>
> Thanks to all.
>
> -- Steve
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> Ok.
>>> For the record...
>>> If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat
each
>> other,
>>> I don't really want to be a part of it anymore.
>>> This is absurd.
>>> I thought we were trying to be better people here.
>>> But I suppose I was wrong.
>>>
>>> Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
>>>
>>> Have a good weekend everyone.
>>
>> Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
>> solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is
about
>>> having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
>>> There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn