8 Feb
2015
8 Feb
'15
8:12 a.m.
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Ok.
For the record...
If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat each other,
I don't really want to be a part of it anymore.
This is absurd.
I thought we were trying to be better people here.
But I suppose I was wrong.
Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
Have a good weekend everyone.
Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is about
having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn to
see that.
8 Feb
8 Feb
11:21 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
TBC, yar, your statement necessarily had implications for what Al said. It
could have been phrased to not do that even while still expressing support
for Ryan. Korl can think it was unconstructive without taking it
personally. I don't think the subsequent statement that Korl has something
to learn here was helpful.
That said, let's not lose track of the fact that Perry has serious
loss-of-boundary issues when he drinks (which seems to be frequently). My
own experience (two experiences actually) is that he doesn't single people
out for that (I got it too), but it's absolutely the case that the same
behavior that was non-threatening for me will be very threatening for
others. (Something I need to bear in mind going foward; probably I should
have asked if there have been other such incidents.)
I'm a little murky on the process here. I mean, this open discussion isn't
going to be used for some sort of vote, right?
Assuming this from David K. is correct --
"Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban - pending
conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space violation which
is what this is."
-- then it seems that all Ryan has to do is say that Perry is banned,
following which a conflict mediation process is initiated. If Ryan didn't
feel that his and (as related) Ribre's particular experience was sufficient
and so was asking others, then what Jenny and I added (and David K.,
although he didn't provide details of the incidents) seems like more than
enough.
Returning to Ryan's original comment --
"Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending mediation,
as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he refused to take
action to alter his behaviour."
-- it seems to me that maybe it not being phrased as a statement may have
engendered confusion. So maybe just do that, Ryan? TBC, apparently you
don't need to ask anyone, and as noted if what you wanted was corroboration
you have plenty.
As for the policy discussion, if Al or anyone wants to pursue that I
suggest they do it in a different thread.
Thanks to all.
-- Steve
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke
<soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Ok.
For the record...
If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat each
other,
I don't really want to be a part of it
anymore.
This is absurd.
I thought we were trying to be better people here.
But I suppose I was wrong.
Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
Have a good weekend everyone.
Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is about
having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn to
see that.
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
11:33 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
TBC I don't need a cis man telling me how I should proceed after I was
sexually assaulted.
TBC I don't need a cis man euphemizing a sexual predator's behavior.
TBC I don't need a cis man "researching" the situation to see if there were
more incidents.
TBC I don't need a cis man adding to the tone policing in this thread.
TBC you are mansplaining right now Steve, and that's the last fucking thing
I need right now.
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Steve Bloom <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com> wrote:
TBC, yar, your statement necessarily had implications
for what Al said.
It could have been phrased to not do that even while still expressing
support for Ryan. Korl can think it was unconstructive without taking it
personally. I don't think the subsequent statement that Korl has something
to learn here was helpful.
That said, let's not lose track of the fact that Perry has serious
loss-of-boundary issues when he drinks (which seems to be frequently). My
own experience (two experiences actually) is that he doesn't single people
out for that (I got it too), but it's absolutely the case that the same
behavior that was non-threatening for me will be very threatening for
others. (Something I need to bear in mind going foward; probably I should
have asked if there have been other such incidents.)
I'm a little murky on the process here. I mean, this open discussion
isn't going to be used for some sort of vote, right?
Assuming this from David K. is correct --
"Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban -
pending conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space
violation which is what this is."
-- then it seems that all Ryan has to do is say that Perry is banned,
following which a conflict mediation process is initiated. If Ryan didn't
feel that his and (as related) Ribre's particular experience was sufficient
and so was asking others, then what Jenny and I added (and David K.,
although he didn't provide details of the incidents) seems like more than
enough.
Returning to Ryan's original comment --
"Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending mediation,
as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he refused to take
action to alter his behaviour."
-- it seems to me that maybe it not being phrased as a statement may have
engendered confusion. So maybe just do that, Ryan? TBC, apparently you
don't need to ask anyone, and as noted if what you wanted was corroboration
you have plenty.
As for the policy discussion, if Al or anyone wants to pursue that I
suggest they do it in a different thread.
Thanks to all.
-- Steve
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke
<soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Ok.
For the record...
If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat each
other,
I don't really want to be a part of it
anymore.
This is absurd.
I thought we were trying to be better people here.
But I suppose I was wrong.
Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
Have a good weekend everyone.
Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is about
having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn to
see that.
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
11:44 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
The point is that this conversation has become destructive. I do not think pointing out
people in the discuss list if helpful, only hurtful. The CDC list may be a better place
for in depth conversations about bans.
Sincerely,
Mary
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 8, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Ryan
<yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
TBC I don't need a cis man telling me how I should proceed after I was sexually
assaulted.
TBC I don't need a cis man euphemizing a sexual predator's behavior.
TBC I don't need a cis man "researching" the situation to see if there were
more incidents.
TBC I don't need a cis man adding to the tone policing in this thread.
TBC you are mansplaining right now Steve, and that's the last fucking thing I need
right now.
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Steve Bloom
<stevebloom55(a)gmail.com> wrote:
TBC, yar, your statement necessarily had implications for what Al said. It could have
been phrased to not do that even while still expressing support for Ryan. Korl can think
it was unconstructive without taking it personally. I don't think the subsequent
statement that Korl has something to learn here was helpful.
That said, let's not lose track of the fact that Perry has serious loss-of-boundary
issues when he drinks (which seems to be frequently). My own experience (two experiences
actually) is that he doesn't single people out for that (I got it too), but it's
absolutely the case that the same behavior that was non-threatening for me will be very
threatening for others. (Something I need to bear in mind going foward; probably I should
have asked if there have been other such incidents.)
I'm a little murky on the process here. I mean, this open discussion isn't going
to be used for some sort of vote, right?
Assuming this from David K. is correct --
"Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban - pending conflict
mediation - anyone else so following a safe space violation which is what this is."
-- then it seems that all Ryan has to do is say that Perry is banned, following which a
conflict mediation process is initiated. If Ryan didn't feel that his and (as
related) Ribre's particular experience was sufficient and so was asking others, then
what Jenny and I added (and David K., although he didn't provide details of the
incidents) seems like more than enough.
Returning to Ryan's original comment --
"Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending mediation, as his
actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he refused to take action to alter his
behaviour."
-- it seems to me that maybe it not being phrased as a statement may have engendered
confusion. So maybe just do that, Ryan? TBC, apparently you don't need to ask
anyone, and as noted if what you wanted was corroboration you have plenty.
As for the policy discussion, if Al or anyone wants to pursue that I suggest they do it
in a different thread.
Thanks to all.
-- Steve
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, yar
<yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss Ok.
For the record...
If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat each other,
I don't really want to be a part of it anymore.
This is absurd.
I thought we were trying to be better people here.
But I suppose I was wrong.
Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
Have a good weekend everyone.
Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is about
having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn to
see that.
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
11:50 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
Ryan, why do you think I identify with or consider appropriate as applied
to me the term "cis man"? I don't. Please don't direct it toward me
or
use it to refer to me again. TIA. Otherwise, my effort to be helpful and
constructive having crashed and burned, I'm done with this discussion.
-- Steve
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Mary Ward <maryhbw(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The point is that this conversation has become
destructive. I do not think
pointing out people in the discuss list if helpful, only hurtful. The CDC
list may be a better place for in depth conversations about bans.
Sincerely,
Mary
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 8, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
TBC I don't need a cis man telling me how I should proceed after I was
sexually assaulted.
TBC I don't need a cis man euphemizing a sexual predator's behavior.
TBC I don't need a cis man "researching" the situation to see if there
were more incidents.
TBC I don't need a cis man adding to the tone policing in this thread.
TBC you are mansplaining right now Steve, and that's the last fucking
thing I need right now.
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Steve Bloom <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
TBC, yar, your statement necessarily had
implications for what Al said.
It could have been phrased to not do that even while still expressing
support for Ryan. Korl can think it was unconstructive without taking it
personally. I don't think the subsequent statement that Korl has something
to learn here was helpful.
That said, let's not lose track of the fact that Perry has serious
loss-of-boundary issues when he drinks (which seems to be frequently). My
own experience (two experiences actually) is that he doesn't single people
out for that (I got it too), but it's absolutely the case that the same
behavior that was non-threatening for me will be very threatening for
others. (Something I need to bear in mind going foward; probably I should
have asked if there have been other such incidents.)
I'm a little murky on the process here. I mean, this open discussion
isn't going to be used for some sort of vote, right?
Assuming this from David K. is correct --
"Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban -
pending conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space
violation which is what this is."
-- then it seems that all Ryan has to do is say that Perry is banned,
following which a conflict mediation process is initiated. If Ryan didn't
feel that his and (as related) Ribre's particular experience was sufficient
and so was asking others, then what Jenny and I added (and David K.,
although he didn't provide details of the incidents) seems like more than
enough.
Returning to Ryan's original comment --
"Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending mediation,
as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he refused to take
action to alter his behaviour."
-- it seems to me that maybe it not being phrased as a statement may have
engendered confusion. So maybe just do that, Ryan? TBC, apparently you
don't need to ask anyone, and as noted if what you wanted was corroboration
you have plenty.
As for the policy discussion, if Al or anyone wants to pursue that I
suggest they do it in a different thread.
Thanks to all.
-- Steve
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke
<soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Ok.
For the record...
If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat each
other,
I don't really want to be a part of it
anymore.
This is absurd.
I thought we were trying to be better people here.
But I suppose I was wrong.
Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
Have a good weekend everyone.
Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is about
having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn to
see that.
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
11:55 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
This.
What.
Woah.
Seriously, Ryan?
Why do you think you're entitled to speak to people that way?
Especially in within the Omni community?
Why would you for second think that this a forum that would tolerate any form of prejudice
or bigotry from it's members, when that is exactly why we are here... ?
This just baffles me.
~ Korl
510.671.0824
500px.com/soenke-v
On Feb 8, 2015, 11:50 AM, at 11:50 AM, Steve Bloom <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Ryan, why do you think I identify with or consider
appropriate as
applied
to me the term "cis man"? I don't. Please don't direct it toward me
or
use it to refer to me again. TIA. Otherwise, my effort to be helpful
and
constructive having crashed and burned, I'm done with this discussion.
-- Steve
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Mary Ward <maryhbw(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The point is that this conversation has become
destructive. I do not
think
pointing out people in the discuss list if
helpful, only hurtful. The
CDC
list may be a better place for in depth
conversations about bans.
Sincerely,
Mary
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 8, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
TBC I don't need a cis man telling me how I should proceed after I
was
sexually assaulted.
TBC I don't need a cis man euphemizing a sexual predator's behavior.
TBC I don't need a cis man "researching" the situation to see if
there
were more incidents.
TBC I don't need a cis man adding to the tone policing in this
thread.
TBC you are mansplaining right now Steve, and that's the last fucking
thing I need right now.
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Steve Bloom <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> TBC, yar, your statement necessarily had implications for what Al
said.
> It could have been phrased to not do that
even while still
expressing
> support for Ryan. Korl can think it was
unconstructive without
taking it
> personally. I don't think the subsequent
statement that Korl has
something
> to learn here was helpful.
>
> That said, let's not lose track of the fact that Perry has serious
> loss-of-boundary issues when he drinks (which seems to be
frequently). My
> own experience (two experiences actually) is
that he doesn't single
people
> out for that (I got it too), but it's
absolutely the case that the
same
> behavior that was non-threatening for me will
be very threatening
for
> others. (Something I need to bear in mind
going foward; probably I
should
> have asked if there have been other such
incidents.)
>
> I'm a little murky on the process here. I mean, this open
discussion
> isn't going to be used for some sort of
vote, right?
>
> Assuming this from David K. is correct --
>
> "Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban -
> pending conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space
> violation which is what this is."
>
> -- then it seems that all Ryan has to do is say that Perry is
banned,
> following which a conflict mediation process
is initiated. If Ryan
didn't
> feel that his and (as related) Ribre's
particular experience was
sufficient
> and so was asking others, then what Jenny and
I added (and David K.,
> although he didn't provide details of the incidents) seems like more
than
> enough.
>
> Returning to Ryan's original comment --
>
> "Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
mediation,
> as his actions clearly violate our safe space
policy and he refused
to take
> action to alter his behaviour."
>
> -- it seems to me that maybe it not being phrased as a statement may
have
> engendered confusion. So maybe just do that,
Ryan? TBC, apparently
you
> don't need to ask anyone, and as noted if
what you wanted was
corroboration
> you have plenty.
>
> As for the policy discussion, if Al or anyone wants to pursue that I
> suggest they do it in a different thread.
>
> Thanks to all.
>
> -- Steve
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>> > Ok.
>> > For the record...
>> > If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat
each
>> other,
>> > I don't really want to be a part of it anymore.
>> > This is absurd.
>> > I thought we were trying to be better people here.
>> > But I suppose I was wrong.
>> >
>> > Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
>> >
>> > Have a good weekend everyone.
>>
>> Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
>> solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is
about
>>> having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
>>> There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn to
>>> see that.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>
>
noon
New subject: [omni-discuss] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
Sorry for the typos. Migrane.
I wholly agree with Mary.
This entire thread has become entirely unconstructive.
Please, let's abandon ship?
~ Korl
510.671.0824
500px.com/soenke-v
On Feb 8, 2015, 11:56 AM, at 11:56 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This.
What.
Woah.
Seriously, Ryan?
Why do you think you're entitled to speak to people that way?
Especially in within the Omni community?
Why would you for second think that this a forum that would tolerate
any form of prejudice or bigotry from it's members, when that is
exactly why we are here... ?
This just baffles me.
~ Korl
510.671.0824
500px.com/soenke-v
On Feb 8, 2015, 11:50 AM, at 11:50 AM, Steve Bloom
<stevebloom55(a)gmail.com> wrote:
K.,
to
>>>> see that.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
Ryan, why do you think I identify with or consider
appropriate as
applied
to me the term "cis man"? I don't. Please don't direct it toward me
or
use it to refer to me again. TIA. Otherwise, my effort to be helpful
and
constructive having crashed and burned, I'm done with this discussion.
-- Steve
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Mary Ward <maryhbw(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The
The point is that this conversation has become
destructive. I do not
think
> pointing out people in the discuss list if helpful, only hurtful. CDC
fucking
list may be a better place for in depth
conversations about bans.
Sincerely,
Mary
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 8, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
TBC I don't need a cis man telling me how I should proceed after I
was
sexually assaulted.
TBC I don't need a cis man euphemizing a sexual predator's behavior.
TBC I don't need a cis man "researching" the situation to see if
there
were more incidents.
TBC I don't need a cis man adding to the tone policing in this
thread.
>
> TBC you are mansplaining right now Steve, and that's the last > thing I need right now.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Steve Bloom
<stevebloom55(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> TBC, yar, your statement necessarily had implications for what Al
said.
> It could have been phrased to not do that
even while still
expressing
> support for Ryan. Korl can think it was
unconstructive without
taking it
> personally. I don't think the subsequent
statement that Korl has
something
> to learn here was helpful.
>
> That said, let's not lose track of the fact that Perry has serious
> loss-of-boundary issues when he drinks (which seems to be
frequently). My
> own experience (two experiences actually) is
that he doesn't single
people
> out for that (I got it too), but it's
absolutely the case that the
same
> behavior that was non-threatening for me will
be very threatening
for
> others. (Something I need to bear in mind
going foward; probably I
should
> have asked if there have been other such
incidents.)
>
> I'm a little murky on the process here. I mean, this open
discussion
> isn't going to be used for some sort of
vote, right?
>
> Assuming this from David K. is correct --
>
> "Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban -
> pending conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space
> violation which is what this is."
>
> -- then it seems that all Ryan has to do is say that Perry is
banned,
> following which a conflict mediation process
is initiated. If Ryan
didn't
> feel that his and (as related) Ribre's
particular experience was
sufficient
>> and so was asking others, then what Jenny and I added (and David >> although he didn't provide details of
the incidents) seems like
more
than
may
> enough.
>
> Returning to Ryan's original comment --
>
> "Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
mediation,
> as his actions clearly violate our safe space
policy and he refused
to take
>> action to alter his behaviour."
>>
>> -- it seems to me that maybe it not being phrased as a statement have
>> engendered confusion. So maybe just do that, Ryan? TBC,
apparently
you
I
> don't need to ask anyone, and as noted if
what you wanted was
corroboration
>> you have plenty.
>>
>> As for the policy discussion, if Al or anyone wants to pursue that >
suggest they do it in a different thread.
>
> Thanks to all.
>
> -- Steve
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>> > Ok.
>> > For the record...
>> > If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat
each
>> other,
>> > I don't really want to be a part of it anymore.
>> > This is absurd.
>> > I thought we were trying to be better people here.
>> > But I suppose I was wrong.
>> >
>> > Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
>> >
>> > Have a good weekend everyone.
>>
>> Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
>> solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is
about
>>> having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
>>> There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn 
1:54 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
It's really not cool to shut people down for speaking out against the continual
barrage of complaining, mansplaining, boundary-transgressing, correcting and directing
many of us experience daily from primarily - yes! surprise! cis men! [1]
In particular, tone policing [2] someone in the very thread where they're bravely
calling out someone who sexually assaulted them is fucked up! Wrong way y'all! I am so
grateful to Ryan for calling out so much of the bullshit I often just let slide, suffering
silently. We really need to be more compassionate, kind, and forgiving - but also strong
in setting boundaries and reinforcing our values if we endeavor to create a safe space at
the Omni.
We still have a long way to go, and it's gonna be hard, and painful, and, and...
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
augh. I feel so exhausted, angry, and frustrated right now.
I love you all, let's please do better and level up our empathy.
<3
Jenny
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
[2] http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument
On 02/08/2015 12:00 PM, Soenke wrote:
Sorry for the typos. Migrane.
I wholly agree with Mary.
This entire thread has become entirely unconstructive.
Please, let's abandon ship?
~ Korl
510.671.0824
500px.com/soenke-v
On Feb 8, 2015, 11:56 AM, at 11:56 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
This.
What.
Woah.
Seriously, Ryan?
Why do you think you're entitled to speak to people that way?
Especially in within the Omni community?
Why would you for second think that this a forum that would tolerate
any form of prejudice or bigotry from it's members, when that is
exactly why we are here... ?
This just baffles me.
~ Korl
510.671.0824
500px.com/soenke-v
On Feb 8, 2015, 11:50 AM, at 11:50 AM, Steve Bloom
<stevebloom55(a)gmail.com> wrote:
K.,
to
>>>> see that.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Ryan, why do you think I identify with or
consider appropriate as
applied
to me the term "cis man"? I don't. Please don't direct it toward me
or
use it to refer to me again. TIA. Otherwise, my effort to be helpful
and
constructive having crashed and burned, I'm done with this discussion.
-- Steve
On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Mary Ward <maryhbw(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The
The point is that this conversation has become
destructive. I do not
think
> pointing out people in the discuss list if helpful, only hurtful. CDC
fucking
list may be a better place for in depth
conversations about bans.
Sincerely,
Mary
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 8, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
TBC I don't need a cis man telling me how I should proceed after I
was
sexually assaulted.
TBC I don't need a cis man euphemizing a sexual predator's behavior.
TBC I don't need a cis man "researching" the situation to see if
there
were more incidents.
TBC I don't need a cis man adding to the tone policing in this
thread.
>
> TBC you are mansplaining right now Steve, and that's the last > thing I need right now.
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Steve Bloom
<stevebloom55(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> TBC, yar, your statement necessarily had implications for what Al
said.
> It could have been phrased to not do that
even while still
expressing
> support for Ryan. Korl can think it was
unconstructive without
taking it
> personally. I don't think the subsequent
statement that Korl has
something
> to learn here was helpful.
>
> That said, let's not lose track of the fact that Perry has serious
> loss-of-boundary issues when he drinks (which seems to be
frequently). My
> own experience (two experiences actually) is
that he doesn't single
people
> out for that (I got it too), but it's
absolutely the case that the
same
> behavior that was non-threatening for me will
be very threatening
for
> others. (Something I need to bear in mind
going foward; probably I
should
> have asked if there have been other such
incidents.)
>
> I'm a little murky on the process here. I mean, this open
discussion
> isn't going to be used for some sort of
vote, right?
>
> Assuming this from David K. is correct --
>
> "Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban -
> pending conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space
> violation which is what this is."
>
> -- then it seems that all Ryan has to do is say that Perry is
banned,
> following which a conflict mediation process
is initiated. If Ryan
didn't
> feel that his and (as related) Ribre's
particular experience was
sufficient
>> and so was asking others, then what Jenny and I added (and David >> although he didn't provide details of
the incidents) seems like
more
than
may
> enough.
>
> Returning to Ryan's original comment --
>
> "Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
mediation,
> as his actions clearly violate our safe space
policy and he refused
to take
>> action to alter his behaviour."
>>
>> -- it seems to me that maybe it not being phrased as a statement have
>> engendered confusion. So maybe just do that, Ryan? TBC,
apparently
you
I
> don't need to ask anyone, and as noted if
what you wanted was
corroboration
>> you have plenty.
>>
>> As for the policy discussion, if Al or anyone wants to pursue that >
suggest they do it in a different thread.
>
> Thanks to all.
>
> -- Steve
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> Ok.
>>> For the record...
>>> If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat
each
>> other,
>>> I don't really want to be a part of it anymore.
>>> This is absurd.
>>> I thought we were trying to be better people here.
>>> But I suppose I was wrong.
>>>
>>> Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
>>>
>>> Have a good weekend everyone.
>>
>> Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
>> solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is
about
>>> having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
>>> There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn 
2:13 p.m.
New subject: Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
At some point email conversations, just as with in-person conversations,
can spiral into destructiveness with not much opportunity for anything
constructive to come out of it.
The overriding point here is mutual aid and love for and respect for one
another.
Korl is a wonderful human being who has done a great deal for omni - as has
ryan, jake etc.
Al is someone I at least have never met and does seem to be missing the
point that safe space was violated and compassion and conflict resolution
are the next steps. It's not a perfect process but Torrie's right, let's
not get so bogged down in process that we lose sight of the overall point
which is compassion towards Ryan who was accosted and how we can engage in
a process of transformative justice for all concerned so that this doesn't
happen again.
Let's also be a bit more forgiving of others' language that may not yet be
the most sensitive ways of discussing the issue, and educate them, giving
them the benefit if the doubt and assuming good faith until shown
otherwise.
Turning this into an thread of recriminations is not gonna solve the safe
space problem.
I do think Jake's point is germane, if Al has a history of trolling
elsewhere we as a community should know that. Al, if you are given to
criticism without functionally being present as an organizer at omni in
some capacity, please tone it down and show some sensitivity here. If you
are an organizer, please suggest a better way forward or improvements to
our policies so it is more clear, effective etc.
I think we need moderation on lists to cut down on these damaging
threads.. my 2c.
And Korl. We love love you!
On Sunday, February 8, 2015, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It's really not cool to shut people down for
speaking out against the
continual barrage of complaining, mansplaining, boundary-transgressing,
correcting and directing many of us experience daily from primarily - yes!
surprise! cis men! [1]
In particular, tone policing [2] someone in the very thread where they're
bravely calling out someone who sexually assaulted them is fucked up! Wrong
way y'all! I am so grateful to Ryan for calling out so much of the bullshit
I often just let slide, suffering silently. We really need to be more
compassionate, kind, and forgiving - but also strong in setting boundaries
and reinforcing our values if we endeavor to create a safe space at the
Omni.
We still have a long way to go, and it's gonna be hard, and painful, and,
and...
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
augh. I feel so exhausted, angry, and frustrated right now.
I love you all, let's please do better and level up our empathy.
<3
Jenny
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
[2] http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument
On 02/08/2015 12:00 PM, Soenke wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:;>
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
cdc mailing list
cdc(a)lists.omnicommons.org <javascript:;>
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/cdc
Sorry for the typos. Migrane.
I wholly agree with Mary.
This entire thread has become entirely unconstructive.
Please, let's abandon ship?
~ Korl
510.671.0824
500px.com/soenke-v
On Feb 8, 2015, 11:56 AM, at 11:56 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com
<javascript:;>> wrote:
> This.
> What.
> Woah.
>
> Seriously, Ryan?
> Why do you think you're entitled to speak to people that way?
> Especially in within the Omni community?
> Why would you for second think that this a forum that would tolerate
> any form of prejudice or bigotry from it's members, when that is
> exactly why we are here... ?
> This just baffles me.
>
> ~ Korl
>
> 510.671.0824
> 500px.com/soenke-v
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2015, 11:50 AM, at 11:50 AM, Steve Bloom
> <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> Ryan, why do you think I identify with or consider appropriate as
>> applied
>> to me the term "cis man"? I don't. Please don't direct it
toward me
>> or
>> use it to refer to me again. TIA. Otherwise, my effort to be helpful
>> and
>> constructive having crashed and burned, I'm done with this discussion.
>>
>> -- Steve
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Mary Ward <maryhbw(a)gmail.com
<javascript:;>> wrote:
>>
>>> The point is that this conversation has become destructive. I do not
>> think
>>> pointing out people in the discuss list if helpful, only hurtful.
> The
>> CDC
>>> list may be a better place for in depth conversations about bans.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Mary
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 8, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com
<javascript:;>>
wrote:
>>>
>>> TBC I don't need a cis man telling me how I should proceed after I
>> was
>>> sexually assaulted.
>>>
>>> TBC I don't need a cis man euphemizing a sexual predator's
behavior.
>>>
>>> TBC I don't need a cis man "researching" the situation to see
if
>> there
>>> were more incidents.
>>>
>>> TBC I don't need a cis man adding to the tone policing in this
>> thread.
>>>
>>> TBC you are mansplaining right now Steve, and that's the last
> fucking
>>> thing I need right now.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Steve Bloom
> <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com <javascript:;>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> TBC, yar, your statement necessarily had implications for what Al
>> said.
>>>> It could have been phrased to not do that even while still
>> expressing
>>>> support for Ryan. Korl can think it was unconstructive without
>> taking it
>>>> personally. I don't think the subsequent statement that Korl has
>> something
>>>> to learn here was helpful.
>>>>
>>>> That said, let's not lose track of the fact that Perry has serious
>>>> loss-of-boundary issues when he drinks (which seems to be
>> frequently). My
>>>> own experience (two experiences actually) is that he doesn't single
>> people
>>>> out for that (I got it too), but it's absolutely the case that the
>> same
>>>> behavior that was non-threatening for me will be very threatening
>> for
>>>> others. (Something I need to bear in mind going foward; probably I
>> should
>>>> have asked if there have been other such incidents.)
>>>>
>>>> I'm a little murky on the process here. I mean, this open
>> discussion
>>>> isn't going to be used for some sort of vote, right?
>>>>
>>>> Assuming this from David K. is correct --
>>>>
>>>> "Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban -
>>>> pending conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space
>>>> violation which is what this is."
>>>>
>>>> -- then it seems that all Ryan has to do is say that Perry is
>> banned,
>>>> following which a conflict mediation process is initiated. If Ryan
>> didn't
>>>> feel that his and (as related) Ribre's particular experience was
>> sufficient
>>>> and so was asking others, then what Jenny and I added (and David
> K.,
>>>> although he didn't provide details of the incidents) seems like
> more
>> than
>>>> enough.
>>>>
>>>> Returning to Ryan's original comment --
>>>>
>>>> "Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
>> mediation,
>>>> as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he refused
>> to take
>>>> action to alter his behaviour."
>>>>
>>>> -- it seems to me that maybe it not being phrased as a statement
> may
>> have
>>>> engendered confusion. So maybe just do that, Ryan? TBC,
> apparently
>> you
>>>> don't need to ask anyone, and as noted if what you wanted was
>> corroboration
>>>> you have plenty.
>>>>
>>>> As for the policy discussion, if Al or anyone wants to pursue that
> I
>>>> suggest they do it in a different thread.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all.
>>>>
>>>> -- Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com
<javascript:;>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com
<javascript:;>>
wrote:
>>>> Ok.
>>>> For the record...
>>>> If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat
each
>>> other,
>>>> I don't really want to be a part of it anymore.
>>>> This is absurd.
>>>> I thought we were trying to be better people here.
>>>> But I suppose I was wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
>>>>
>>>> Have a good weekend everyone.
>>>
>>> Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
>>> solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is
about
>>> having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
>>> There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn
to
>>>> see that.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org <javascript:;>
>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:;>
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org <javascript:;>
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>> 
5:52 p.m.
New subject: [omni-cdc] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
I'll continue this on a new CDC thread that sudoroom isn't copied on, if it
isn't appropriate for the SR list. I'm sorry for my confusion. The original
message in this thread arrived in my inbox because I'm on the CDC list. I'm
not even on the sudoroom mailing list; it only appeared there if the
moderator decided to forward it after I clicked Reply All.
On Feb 8, 2015 2:14 PM, "David Keenan" <dkeenan44(a)gmail.com> wrote:
At some point email conversations, just as with
in-person conversations,
can spiral into destructiveness with not much opportunity for anything
constructive to come out of it.
The overriding point here is mutual aid and love for and respect for one
another.
Korl is a wonderful human being who has done a great deal for omni - as
has ryan, jake etc.
Al is someone I at least have never met and does seem to be missing the
point that safe space was violated and compassion and conflict resolution
are the next steps. It's not a perfect process but Torrie's right, let's
not get so bogged down in process that we lose sight of the overall point
which is compassion towards Ryan who was accosted and how we can engage in
a process of transformative justice for all concerned so that this doesn't
happen again.
Let's also be a bit more forgiving of others' language that may not yet be
the most sensitive ways of discussing the issue, and educate them, giving
them the benefit if the doubt and assuming good faith until shown
otherwise.
Turning this into an thread of recriminations is not gonna solve the safe
space problem.
I do think Jake's point is germane, if Al has a history of trolling
elsewhere we as a community should know that. Al, if you are given to
criticism without functionally being present as an organizer at omni in
some capacity, please tone it down and show some sensitivity here. If you
are an organizer, please suggest a better way forward or improvements to
our policies so it is more clear, effective etc.
I think we need moderation on lists to cut down on these damaging
threads.. my 2c.
And Korl. We love love you!
On Sunday, February 8, 2015, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It's really not cool to shut people down for
speaking out against the
continual barrage of complaining, mansplaining, boundary-transgressing,
correcting and directing many of us experience daily from primarily - yes!
surprise! cis men! [1]
In particular, tone policing [2] someone in the very thread where they're
bravely calling out someone who sexually assaulted them is fucked up! Wrong
way y'all! I am so grateful to Ryan for calling out so much of the bullshit
I often just let slide, suffering silently. We really need to be more
compassionate, kind, and forgiving - but also strong in setting boundaries
and reinforcing our values if we endeavor to create a safe space at the
Omni.
We still have a long way to go, and it's gonna be hard, and painful, and,
and...
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
augh. I feel so exhausted, angry, and frustrated right now.
I love you all, let's please do better and level up our empathy.
<3
Jenny
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender
[2] http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument
On 02/08/2015 12:00 PM, Soenke wrote:
--
Jenny
http://jennyryan.net
http://sudomesh.org
http://thevirtualcampfire.org
http://technomadic.tumblr.com
`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
"Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."
-Laurie Anderson
"Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining
it."
-Hannah Arendt
"To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."
-Stéphane Mallarmé
~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`
_______________________________________________
cdc mailing list
cdc(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/cdc
_______________________________________________
cdc mailing list
cdc(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/cdc
Sorry for the typos. Migrane.
I wholly agree with Mary.
This entire thread has become entirely unconstructive.
Please, let's abandon ship?
~ Korl
510.671.0824
500px.com/soenke-v
On Feb 8, 2015, 11:56 AM, at 11:56 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> This.
> What.
> Woah.
>
> Seriously, Ryan?
> Why do you think you're entitled to speak to people that way?
> Especially in within the Omni community?
> Why would you for second think that this a forum that would tolerate
> any form of prejudice or bigotry from it's members, when that is
> exactly why we are here... ?
> This just baffles me.
>
> ~ Korl
>
> 510.671.0824
> 500px.com/soenke-v
>
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2015, 11:50 AM, at 11:50 AM, Steve Bloom
> <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ryan, why do you think I identify with or consider appropriate as
>> applied
>> to me the term "cis man"? I don't. Please don't direct it
toward me
>> or
>> use it to refer to me again. TIA. Otherwise, my effort to be
helpful
>> and
>> constructive having crashed and burned, I'm done with this
discussion.
>>
>> -- Steve
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Mary Ward <maryhbw(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> The point is that this conversation has become destructive. I do not
> think
>> pointing out people in the discuss list if helpful, only hurtful.
The
> CDC
>> list may be a better place for in depth conversations about bans.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Mary
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Feb 8, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> TBC I don't need a cis man telling me how I should proceed after I
> was
>> sexually assaulted.
>>
>> TBC I don't need a cis man euphemizing a sexual predator's behavior.
>>
>> TBC I don't need a cis man "researching" the situation to see if
> there
>> were more incidents.
>>
>> TBC I don't need a cis man adding to the tone policing in this
> thread.
>>
>> TBC you are mansplaining right now Steve, and that's the last
fucking
>> thing I need right now.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Steve Bloom
<stevebloom55(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> TBC, yar, your statement necessarily had implications for what Al
> said.
>>> It could have been phrased to not do that even while still
> expressing
>>> support for Ryan. Korl can think it was unconstructive without
> taking it
>>> personally. I don't think the subsequent statement that Korl has
> something
>>> to learn here was helpful.
>>>
>>> That said, let's not lose track of the fact that Perry has serious
>>> loss-of-boundary issues when he drinks (which seems to be
> frequently). My
>>> own experience (two experiences actually) is that he doesn't single
> people
>>> out for that (I got it too), but it's absolutely the case that the
> same
>>> behavior that was non-threatening for me will be very threatening
> for
>>> others. (Something I need to bear in mind going foward; probably I
> should
>>> have asked if there have been other such incidents.)
>>>
>>> I'm a little murky on the process here. I mean, this open
> discussion
>>> isn't going to be used for some sort of vote, right?
>>>
>>> Assuming this from David K. is correct --
>>>
>>> "Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban -
>>> pending conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space
>>> violation which is what this is."
>>>
>>> -- then it seems that all Ryan has to do is say that Perry is
> banned,
>>> following which a conflict mediation process is initiated. If Ryan
> didn't
>>> feel that his and (as related) Ribre's particular experience was
> sufficient
>>> and so was asking others, then what Jenny and I added (and David
K.,
>>> although he didn't provide details of the incidents) seems like
more
> than
>>> enough.
>>>
>>> Returning to Ryan's original comment --
>>>
>>> "Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending
> mediation,
>>> as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he refused
> to take
>>> action to alter his behaviour."
>>>
>>> -- it seems to me that maybe it not being phrased as a statement
may
> have
>>> engendered confusion. So maybe just do that, Ryan? TBC,
apparently
> you
>>> don't need to ask anyone, and as noted if what you wanted was
> corroboration
>>> you have plenty.
>>>
>>> As for the policy discussion, if Al or anyone wants to pursue that
I
>>> suggest they do it in a different thread.
>>>
>>> Thanks to all.
>>>
>>> -- Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>>>> Ok.
>>>>> For the record...
>>>>> If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat
> each
>>>> other,
>>>>> I don't really want to be a part of it anymore.
>>>>> This is absurd.
>>>>> I thought we were trying to be better people here.
>>>>> But I suppose I was wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
>>>>>
>>>>> Have a good weekend everyone.
>>>>
>>>> Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
>>>> solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is
> about
>>>> having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
>>>> There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn
to
>>>> see that.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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11:51 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Proposed Safe Space Ban: Perry
+1
Toxicity on sudo-discuss isn't a reason I subscribe, and I'm fairly certain
others are already tired of seeing vitriol hurled around so candidly. It ends
up pushing more people away; the kind of people who /do/ make sudo room a
delightful place to hack.
<3 hugs all around
On Sunday, February 08, 2015 11:44:57 AM Mary Ward wrote:
The point is that this conversation has become
destructive. I do not think
pointing out people in the discuss list if helpful, only hurtful. The CDC
list may be a better place for in depth conversations about bans.
Sincerely,
Mary
Sent from my iPhone
> On Feb 8, 2015, at 11:33 AM, Ryan <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> TBC I don't need a cis man telling me how I should proceed after I was
> sexually assaulted.
>
> TBC I don't need a cis man euphemizing a sexual predator's behavior.
>
> TBC I don't need a cis man "researching" the situation to see if
there
> were more incidents.
>
> TBC I don't need a cis man adding to the tone policing in this thread.
>
> TBC you are mansplaining right now Steve, and that's the last fucking
> thing I need right now.>
>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 11:21 AM, Steve Bloom <stevebloom55(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote: TBC, yar, your statement necessarily had implications for what Al
>> said. It could have been phrased to not do that even while still
>> expressing support for Ryan. Korl can think it was unconstructive
>> without taking it personally. I don't think the subsequent statement
>> that Korl has something to learn here was helpful.
>>
>> That said, let's not lose track of the fact that Perry has serious
>> loss-of-boundary issues when he drinks (which seems to be frequently).
>> My own experience (two experiences actually) is that he doesn't single
>> people out for that (I got it too), but it's absolutely the case that
>> the same behavior that was non-threatening for me will be very
>> threatening for others. (Something I need to bear in mind going foward;
>> probably I should have asked if there have been other such incidents.)
>>
>> I'm a little murky on the process here. I mean, this open discussion
>> isn't going to be used for some sort of vote, right?
>>
>> Assuming this from David K. is correct --
>>
>> "Yes, any member (but not guest) is empowered to temporarily ban -
>> pending conflict mediation - anyone else so following a safe space
>> violation which is what this is."
>>
>> -- then it seems that all Ryan has to do is say that Perry is banned,
>> following which a conflict mediation process is initiated. If Ryan
>> didn't feel that his and (as related) Ribre's particular experience was
>> sufficient and so was asking others, then what Jenny and I added (and
>> David K., although he didn't provide details of the incidents) seems
>> like more than enough.
>>
>> Returning to Ryan's original comment --
>>
>> "Regardless, I ask that Perry be banned from the Omni, pending mediation,
>> as his actions clearly violate our safe space policy and he refused to
>> take action to alter his behaviour."
>>
>> -- it seems to me that maybe it not being phrased as a statement may have
>> engendered confusion. So maybe just do that, Ryan? TBC, apparently you
>> don't need to ask anyone, and as noted if what you wanted was
>> corroboration you have plenty.
>>
>> As for the policy discussion, if Al or anyone wants to pursue that I
>> suggest they do it in a different thread.
>>
>> Thanks to all.
>>
>> -- Steve
>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 8:12 AM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 1:06 AM, Soenke <soenkeveirls(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> > Ok.
>>> > For the record...
>>> > If this is how you all are going to conduct ourselves, and treat each
>>> > other, I don't really want to be a part of it anymore.
>>> > This is absurd.
>>> > I thought we were trying to be better people here.
>>> > But I suppose I was wrong.
>>> >
>>> > Extremely sarcastically, I apologize for speaking up.
>>> >
>>> > Have a good weekend everyone.
>>>
>>> Hey Korl, with nothing but respect, I was just trying to express
>>> solidarity with Ryan without making it about you. To me this is about
>>> having a safe space where people aren't assaulted or misgendered.
>>> There is nothing personal against you here. I hope you can learn to
>>> see that.
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
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3376
days inactive
3377
days old
10 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Al Sweigart -
David Keenan -
Jenny Ryan -
Mary Ward -
Ryan -
Soenke -
Steve Bloom -
Torrie Fischer -
yar