Please unsubscribe. On Jul 7, 2014, at 4:44 PM, sudo-discuss-request(a)lists.sudoroom.org wrote: > Send sudo-discuss mailing list submissions to > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > sudo-discuss-request(a)lists.sudoroom.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > sudo-discuss-owner(a)lists.sudoroom.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of sudo-discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [Mesh] Fwd: Re: Server Room Status (David Keenan) > 2. Re: [Mesh] Fwd: Re: Server Room Status (Matthew Senate) > 3. Re: Server Room Status (David Keenan) > 4. Re: Server Room Status (Matthew Senate) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 15:08:12 -0700 > From: David Keenan &lt;dkeenan44(a)gmail.com&gt; > To: &quot;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&quot; > &lt;sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt; > Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] [Mesh] Fwd: Re: Server Room Status > Message-ID: > &lt;CABhLtjwKsaqN3g33shL1Egn-0kmaT_5c4=ZkrSPn=Hp+0axSqQ(a)mail.gmail.com&gt; > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > (Also I am thinking, low-power solar fans for mellow airflow into the > basement venting, like the kind had on boats, would be cool.) > > > On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 3:06 PM, David Keenan &lt;dkeenan44(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > >> Also, re: ventilation in the basement - we have to recconnect the blower >> from the room (the 1'x3' venting) on the east side asap. On the west side, >> there is active cooling on the west side already (2x fans, plus windows >> above the sidewalk. There is also a large lightwell above the barr-room >> bathroom that could probably be easily gotten to. So, re: cool air (without >> a/c) to the servers if they are in the basement, we could pull cool air >> from the street or roof to the cold side of the rack, and vent heat from >> the hot side/top to the existing exhaust venting the furnaces use, or vent >> heat directlty to the basement in the winter, or vent perhaps to that >> lightwell... we can use thermostats in the room to trigger A/C from the >> compressor to the rack only if needed, and use ambient the rest of the time. >> >> In general, the ventilation setup in the basement - what needs to exhaust >> separately, what venting is shared and whence does it come/go - needs to be >> coordinated with the FNB, La Commune, Black Hole, and OOC. It's a >> logistical issue that Sudoers I think would be really good at help sorting >> out, and I would really love it if we could. >> >> As others have stated, we need a working group just for the basement and >> space there to hash out this stuff - plumbing is another equally pressing >> aspect. It's enough work and discussion I think it may be a good idea to >> set up its own email list perhaps on riseup or google, but I am open to >> suggestions about how best to comprise this. >> >> Love >> David >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 2:30 PM, David Keenan &lt;dkeenan44(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Again I am *super* psyched that we are tackling where to rack servers >>> and very grateful to all who are putting energy and effort into this. >>> >>> Whether it be for servers or any other ideas about how to use others' >>> space and shared space, I feel the only real missing piece in the >>> discussion here, and actually to various degrees within pretty much >>> *every* member collective actually, is not keeping in mind any other >>> group's plans or ideas for a given space in the building - especially for >>> their very own space which they have already been promised are technically >>> in possession of. >>> >>> *For sure*, by all means, lets brainstorm about every possible place >>> things like servers could go. If we are imagining the rack should *not* >>> go into sudo/ccl's room (why not?), but rather elsewhere in the building, I >>> think that's a conversation that should include others in the building too, >>> not just sudoers, because it affects others' planning and use of space. >>> >>> The same I feel is true for anyone else's plans to do any build-out, and >>> all buildout really should be discussed within the OOC as a whole. This >>> doesn't have to be a nightmare of endless meetings - its simply a way to >>> try to act in a coordinated and thoughtful manner in concert with other >>> groups in the space. >>> >>> For example, in the hypothetical of Sudo putting a server rack into what >>> is presently another group's dedicated space (Backspace), that particular >>> conversation should be had with that *group* from the get-go. For sure, >>> hash out pros & cons on sudo-discuss, walk the building with other sudoers >>> - yes! - but that discussion should not take place *only* on >>> sudo-discuss (or sudo-mesh), or *only* with other sudoers (me and >>> Andrew). Also, the Backspace area presently needs a lot of work - >>> apparently, many people can only envision as a place for garbage, or to get >>> to utility panels. >>> >>> Just because the Backspace area has not been fixed up yet, does not mean >>> it won't soon be. Backspace area is at a real disadvantage here compared to >>> nearly every other group, and I feel we all must be understanding of this, >>> as Backspace clearly needs more work (and *time* to do that) than pretty >>> much anywhere else in the building. I mean, Backspace has far more intense >>> permitting and structural issues to address - we're getting architectural >>> drawings (I had the architect over yesterday partly for this reason), and >>> planning it out thoughtfully - this is not going to happen in one week or >>> even one month. Also, Backspacers are a much smaller, newer group than >>> Sudo, in which almost everyone has day jobs and simply can't be there alla >>> the time - they are not on sudo-discuss, nor necessarily should they be, at >>> least any more than all of sudo should be on backspace's list. >>> >>> For those that don't know - Backspace Wellness Collective is a >>> regularly-meeting group presently comprised of four healers / bodyworkers, >>> in addition to Andrew and myself: Samantha, Margaretha, Athena, and Sarah. >>> So, the notion of building Sudo stuff into Backspace needs to be discussed >>> extensively with Backspace as a group. I see this model as applying to any >>> group wanting to build out in another group's space. >>> >>> As you can imagine Backspace is having their own internal discussions >>> about how articulate their model, including how best to build out, >>> refinish, and make use of that physical area. Consider that if you blow >>> away part of Backspace's area or an entire room for a different use, you >>> are also potentially actually talking about removing an individual from >>> Backspace, who would have used that room for their practice. I think it >>> might be best to think about the pro's of putting servers into backspace in >>> that way: Do you really feel that strongly about having servers there that >>> you are willing to do ask that of another group? So you see what I mean >>> here. >>> >>> Anyhow, to a less intensive extent that conversation should also be had >>> with the Omni Oakland Commons as a whole (in the omnilogistics list), >>> especially if you see the servers as serving the entire building, not just >>> sudo (which would need to be explained to everyone else too - easily enough >>> done, but the common use of these servers should be clarified.) >>> >>> Regarding server racks specifically and knowing sudo frankly I am >>> somewhat doubtful that racks would be simply be left alone in a >>> set-and-forget mode as much as has been inferred. Rather, I imagine sudo >>> will actually need not-infrequent physical access.. to hack on things, >>> install and upgrade new donated equipment, etc. Therefore they should be in >>> a space where physical access is not an issue, and probably for permitting >>> issues alone not infringe on the area for electrical panels. The electrical >>> panel area should be closeted off no matter what and really never entered >>> unless a breaker is flipped which, with 200A (or is it 240A?) of power and >>> solid distribution throughout the building, and thoughtful planning re: >>> circuit load, I see as being rare. Yes, a number of the circuits are >>> powered off presently throughout the space - we will address that, and then >>> the electrical closet should be rarely entered, if only for safety's sake >>> if nothing else. My 2c. >>> >>> Best, >>> David >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 6:51 PM, Luis Murillo &lt;luis.murillo.plos(a)gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hey guys sorry I've been MIA today, been running some errands/TCB will >>>> swing by sudo later tonight and monday night :-) >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Somebody &lt;somebody(a)riseup.net&gt; wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Excuse me for resending this email treat, but the Sudo-mesh list was not >>>>> linked from the first email that I sent out. >>>>> >>>>> Thx! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------- Original Message -------- >>>>> Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Server Room Status >>>>> Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2014 17:12:03 -0700 >>>>> From: hol(a)gaskill.com >>>>> To: David Keenan &lt;dkeenan44(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>>> CC: sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> the compressor for that could also provide cooling for the servers. >>>>> i think doing experiments on heat recovery and regenerative hx are good >>>>> for longterm - using a compressor and refrigerant to cool hot things may >>>>> be less green than using fans and just circulating fresh cool air and >>>>> letting convection do the work. if there's no objection, we could set >>>>> up temp racks where daniel and others propose until we can run coax to a >>>>> more optimal area. i finally have some time this week so i'll be around >>>>> to assist with low-level tasks in support of setting up basic >>>>> infrastructure >>>>> >>>>> cheers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 2014-07-06 10:00, David Keenan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> hey guys, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I applaud the effort to find a good, secure server space! I definitely >>>>>> wanna help. >>>>>> >>>>>> The main issue with using this particular room is, as you can see by >>>>>> looking at the floorplan, the Backspace wellness collective is >>>>>> already paying rent on that particular area (NW groundfloor >>>>>> corner) and will be making their own changes to that space. Backspace >>>>>> is myself, Andrew of course, Margaretha, Athena, and Sarah. >>>>>> >>>>>> The wellness collective needs quiet - thats partly an attraction for >>>>>> that corner of the building - and, a cabinet full of fans plus almost >>>>>> certainly AC for the cabinet, is loud. Also, it takes up Backspace, >>>>>> and to be honest, i have hard time inamagining Sudo wont need to get >>>>>> into it alla the time, so it seems nonideal to me. >>>>>> >>>>>> In general I would think, before using other essentially non-shared >>>>>> areas of the building for Sudo's servers, we would have to >>>>>> actually rule out why building the room in other locations, like Sudo >>>>>> room, wouldnt work, and why we think actually that particular location >>>>>> in someone else's area is really the only place it could work. >>>>>> >>>>>> Regardless of Bsckspace, having racked & stacked for going on 20 years >>>>>> that would not be my first location in the entire building for a lot >>>>>> of reasons. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, a server cabinet / closet does not need to be near the main >>>>>> electrical panel. Nor does it does not need to be near the street. >>>>>> >>>>>> We could find a room in the basement. There is excellent ventilation >>>>>> to the basement, that just needs a small fix. Also the furnaces are in >>>>>> the basement, and heat from the servers could tap into that venting to >>>>>> actually help heat the building, which could save on energy. Also, >>>>>> there is a plan to build a walk-in in the basement - the compressor >>>>>> for that could also provide cooling for the servers. >>>>>> >>>>>> In other words, in my view, we should attempt a green solution that >>>>>> ties the serbers into the infrastructure for the building. >>>>>> >>>>>> :) >>>>>> d >>>>>> >>>>>> On Saturday, July 5, 2014, Somebody &lt;somebody(a)riseup.net&gt; wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> === SERVER ROOM UPDATES === >>>>>> 2014/07/05: >>>>>> Today Luis, Matt, and I did the walk in the building, and so far the >>>>>> only place that seems the >>>>>> most appropriate to have the server room is the room by the bar. >>>>>> >>>>>> This area is the most ideal in the whole building because the air >>>>>> flow, >>>>>> temperature, electricity proximity, and also because it is where the >>>>>> Internet access enters the building. >>>>>> >>>>>> Since this area is not is not part of the SudoRoom space, we will have >>>>>> to talk about it with the rest of the Sudo-Mesh group and the group >>>>>> approves it, then we would have to present the idea at our >>>>>> Omni Collective meeting for approval. >>>>>> >>>>>> If approved by the Omni Collective, we would need to build: >>>>>> >>>>>> * A 2" or so high floor (two by fours and plywood would do, I believe. >>>>>> * A 55" x 65" cage with chicken wire walls and a door. >>>>>> >>>>>> If this place is NOT approved by the OOC then perhaps we should >>>>>> consider >>>>>> building the Server Room in the SudoRoom Space. High temperature and >>>>>> noise levels are the main issues. >>>>>> >>>>>> If others have ideas/comments/or want to be part of this process >>>>>> please >>>>>> jump in. You may contact Matt, Luis, or myself (Daniel). >>>>>> >>>>>> This update and all other Network/Reboot project is found at: >>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/mediawiki/index.php?title=Network/Reboot >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This update and all other Network/Reboot project is found at: >>>>>> https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Network/Reboot >>>>>> >>>>>> Thx! >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <mailto: >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org&gt; >>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> mesh mailing list >>>>> mesh(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> mesh mailing list >>>> mesh(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/mesh >>>> >>>> >>> >> >