16 Feb
2014
16 Feb
'14
7:17 p.m.
...I feel really awkward proposing this, but lately it seems like the thing
to do with some of the newcomers goes something like this-
1. Get loaded somewhere else
2. Head to Sudo
3. ???
4. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!! (and/or pass out, depending)
As someone who used to do this on a nightly basis, I kind of get it but
even in my finer moments I don't think I would have shown up at a space
where people were trying to work and expected a warm reception. And, as
someone who has chosen to embrace sobriety I have no quarrel with people
who haven't, but since I haven't really developed the patience required to
deal with drunk folks yet I tend to retreat or act somewhat distant towards
them. Sometimes this results in them chasing me around the space because
they want to "hang out," especially if I'm working on music
stuff...that's
okay if they can do so in a non-disruptive manner, but I'm kind of screwed
if they can't so I'm more or less forced to deal with them or (sacre bleu!)
leave Sudo to try to get shit done.
What I am NOT proposing is making Sudo a sober space. If it comes to that,
sure, but as a first measure I think it's heavy handed and doesn't really
serve the interests of the community that can have a couple of beers and
function equally well as without. I think what I am asking is that we, as a
group, need to send the message that Sudo is not the afterparty, and that
if it continues to be treated like one that the individuals involved will
be asked to leave for the night. I think being somewhat forgiving in this
situation is probably not a bad idea...and of course, repeated behavior of
this sort will probably be brought up in a meeting (i.e. is having *****
around worth it?) and appropriate action will be taken.
Needless to say, Sudo/BAPS events would be more or less exempt since the
actual drinking will be taking place here and any situations that arise
from said drinking will be dealt with as needed.
I would like to hear what everyone has to say about this.
-chrisbee
16 Feb
16 Feb
10:25 p.m.
In summary I agree with Chris about this: It should be possible for
people to handle having a couple of beers without becoming obnoxious or
raising a liability risk. If someone is intoxicated to the point where
they're obnoxious (such as e.g. chasing someone around who doesn't want
to talk to them), that's a problem. And for liability reasons if
nothing else, SR shouldn't be treated as "the party" or "the
after-party."
The key distinctions are between "casual occurrence" vs "event," and
between "alcohol as beverage incidental to e.g. a meal" vs "getting
loaded."
"Events" where alcohol is "served" or even "made available"
run the risk
that if something bad happens, SR could be fined for operating an
unlicensed nightclub. Per a recent news story about a fight at a
warehouse party, the persons responsible were facing a $60,000 fine for
that.
Alice & Bob bring over a pizza and a sixpack to share with friends, is
"casual" and the alcohol is "incidental to the meal." The small
number
of persons involved, and the small amount of alcohol involved, reduce
the risks to negligible.
"Getting loaded" falls into the legal definition of intoxication, which
is a minefield of liability. If someone gets loaded _at_ SR and then
gets in a fight or auto accident, their defense attorney would almost
certainly bring SR into the chain of liability.
Even "get loaded _somewhere else_, then head to Sudo" is a risk, since
one has to get from "somewhere else" to SR, and that means being
intoxicated in public or DUI. If "get loaded somewhere else" is
"policy" or even "understood," then SR becomes entangled in the chain
of
causality if a problem occurs.
If a few individuals' repeat behavior is a cause of these issues
becoming "issues," then it's likely that they have drinking problems.
SR is not obligated to accommodate those behaviors, and the people
involved should face up to their situations.
-G
=====
On 14-02-16-Sun 7:17 PM, Chris Bee wrote:
...I feel really awkward proposing this, but lately it
seems like the
thing to do with some of the newcomers goes something like this-
1. Get loaded somewhere else
2. Head to Sudo
3. ???
4. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!! (and/or pass out, depending)
As someone who used to do this on a nightly basis, I kind of get it
but even in my finer moments I don't think I would have shown up at a
space where people were trying to work and expected a warm reception.
And, as someone who has chosen to embrace sobriety I have no quarrel
with people who haven't, but since I haven't really developed the
patience required to deal with drunk folks yet I tend to retreat or
act somewhat distant towards them. Sometimes this results in them
chasing me around the space because they want to "hang out,"
especially if I'm working on music stuff...that's okay if they can do
so in a non-disruptive manner, but I'm kind of screwed if they can't
so I'm more or less forced to deal with them or (sacre bleu!) leave
Sudo to try to get shit done.
What I am NOT proposing is making Sudo a sober space. If it comes to
that, sure, but as a first measure I think it's heavy handed and
doesn't really serve the interests of the community that can have a
couple of beers and function equally well as without. I think what I
am asking is that we, as a group, need to send the message that Sudo
is not the afterparty, and that if it continues to be treated like one
that the individuals involved will be asked to leave for the night. I
think being somewhat forgiving in this situation is probably not a bad
idea...and of course, repeated behavior of this sort will probably be
brought up in a meeting (i.e. is having ***** around worth it?) and
appropriate action will be taken.
Needless to say, Sudo/BAPS events would be more or less exempt since
the actual drinking will be taking place here and any situations that
arise from said drinking will be dealt with as needed.
I would like to hear what everyone has to say about this.
-chrisbee
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sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
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17 Feb
17 Feb
8:19 a.m.
Chris, do you think there is a connection between (1) people viewing
sudoroom as a place where you can come after you drink, and (2) people
seeing sudoroom as a place where you can sleep overnight?
Max
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Chris Bee <hotelcompany(a)gmail.com> wrote:
...I feel really awkward proposing this, but lately it
seems like the
thing to do with some of the newcomers goes something like this-
1. Get loaded somewhere else
2. Head to Sudo
3. ???
4. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!! (and/or pass out, depending)
As someone who used to do this on a nightly basis, I kind of get it but
even in my finer moments I don't think I would have shown up at a space
where people were trying to work and expected a warm reception. And, as
someone who has chosen to embrace sobriety I have no quarrel with people
who haven't, but since I haven't really developed the patience required to
deal with drunk folks yet I tend to retreat or act somewhat distant towards
them. Sometimes this results in them chasing me around the space because
they want to "hang out," especially if I'm working on music
stuff...that's
okay if they can do so in a non-disruptive manner, but I'm kind of screwed
if they can't so I'm more or less forced to deal with them or (sacre bleu!)
leave Sudo to try to get shit done.
What I am NOT proposing is making Sudo a sober space. If it comes to that,
sure, but as a first measure I think it's heavy handed and doesn't really
serve the interests of the community that can have a couple of beers and
function equally well as without. I think what I am asking is that we, as a
group, need to send the message that Sudo is not the afterparty, and that
if it continues to be treated like one that the individuals involved will
be asked to leave for the night. I think being somewhat forgiving in this
situation is probably not a bad idea...and of course, repeated behavior of
this sort will probably be brought up in a meeting (i.e. is having *****
around worth it?) and appropriate action will be taken.
Needless to say, Sudo/BAPS events would be more or less exempt since the
actual drinking will be taking place here and any situations that arise
from said drinking will be dealt with as needed.
I would like to hear what everyone has to say about this.
-chrisbee
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
7:13 p.m.
I'm trying to keep the two issues separate, but I'd say there's some
correlation there.
BTW, I'm on board with the "no sleeping at Sudo" policy now. If that's
what
it takes to stay here then I'll do whatever it takes, up to and including
enforcing it (humanely, of course).
-chrisbee
On Mon, Feb 17, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Max Klein <isalix(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Chris, do you think there is a connection between (1)
people viewing
sudoroom as a place where you can come after you drink, and (2) people
seeing sudoroom as a place where you can sleep overnight?
Max
On Sun, Feb 16, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Chris Bee <hotelcompany(a)gmail.com> wrote:
...I feel really awkward proposing this, but
lately it seems like the
thing to do with some of the newcomers goes something like this-
1. Get loaded somewhere else
2. Head to Sudo
3. ???
4. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!!! (and/or pass out, depending)
As someone who used to do this on a nightly basis, I kind of get it but
even in my finer moments I don't think I would have shown up at a space
where people were trying to work and expected a warm reception. And, as
someone who has chosen to embrace sobriety I have no quarrel with people
who haven't, but since I haven't really developed the patience required to
deal with drunk folks yet I tend to retreat or act somewhat distant towards
them. Sometimes this results in them chasing me around the space because
they want to "hang out," especially if I'm working on music
stuff...that's
okay if they can do so in a non-disruptive manner, but I'm kind of screwed
if they can't so I'm more or less forced to deal with them or (sacre bleu!)
leave Sudo to try to get shit done.
What I am NOT proposing is making Sudo a sober space. If it comes to
that, sure, but as a first measure I think it's heavy handed and doesn't
really serve the interests of the community that can have a couple of beers
and function equally well as without. I think what I am asking is that we,
as a group, need to send the message that Sudo is not the afterparty, and
that if it continues to be treated like one that the individuals involved
will be asked to leave for the night. I think being somewhat forgiving in
this situation is probably not a bad idea...and of course, repeated
behavior of this sort will probably be brought up in a meeting (i.e. is
having ***** around worth it?) and appropriate action will be taken.
Needless to say, Sudo/BAPS events would be more or less exempt since the
actual drinking will be taking place here and any situations that arise
from said drinking will be dealt with as needed.
I would like to hear what everyone has to say about this.
-chrisbee
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sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
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3 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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Chris Bee -
GtwoG PublicOhOne -
Max Klein