https://riseup.net/ On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Troy Massey <ecoeconomist11(a)gmail.com>wrote;wrote: -- ------- Andrew Lowe Cell: 831-332-2507 http://roshambomedia.com _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

Hi Troy, Troy Massey, on 2013-05-19 03:43, wrote: I like this, "goggle" as an alter-NATIVE pronounciation of that company's name. Goolag's another alter-NATIVE, with a nice graphic here [1]. hear, hear! If you're looking for other fountains of non-commercialism on the net, check out freeshell.org - in particular, it's among the largest remaining GOPHER holes. Read [2] for a quick summary, and [3] for a longer, slightly different take. You probably know this, but it's worth mentioning again that email is not a secure medium. The most "secure" that you can get using email the way most people do is to secure the last leg of communication, by receiving the contents of your email from the server encrypted over HTTPS - so no one who might be sniffing the traffic at the cafe you're sitting at could read along with you. But prior to that, all of those bits traveled from sender to your intended server completely as plain text, ready for any number of relays along the way to inspect the contents and carbon copy them. That's why if you really want to do secure communication over email, you have to encrypt the email for the intended recipient using something like GPG. It might be worth setting up a prototype of a Freedom Box at SudoRoom [4]. 1. http://w3.cultdeadcow.com/cms/2006/02/cdc-launches-gl.html 2. http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw?gopher://sdf.org/0/users/rbigelo/gophe… 3. http://gopher.floodgap.com/overbite/relevance.html 4. https://freedomboxfoundation.org/learn/ best,

No-Sex Apartments. (Creative commons, with attribution to "G.") In cities across the USA, a new "solution" to affordable housing is being promoted: micro-apartments of less than 200 square feet. New York's conrol-freak in chief, Mayor Bloomberg, is promoting them (New Yorkers call them "Bloom Boxes"). A developer in San Francisco is promoting them. And developers in Seattle WA are building them by the hundreds. The Seattle apartments were recently covered in a CBS News article, here: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57582327/tiny-apartments-are-creating-a… If you look at the picture, something immediately stands out: a TWIN BED. As the article says, "...(the) apartment comes with a small private bathroom, a microwave and a mini-refrigerator. There's just enough room for a twin bed, a neatly hung rack of clothes and shelves." (There's not even room for a desk, so forget about working from home: it's back to the plantation for you, worker-bee.) And therein lies the catch, or more accurately the "nudge," to use the Newspeak word for "manipulation." A twin bed is sufficient for sleeping, but not sufficient for a regular sex life with others, much less a stable relationship. Sure, you can manage it occasionally, but for the long term it's right out. Squeezing two people into a bed meant for one is miserable, particularly in the hot summer. This is one form of "birth control" that won't be controversial with the Vatican or other right-wing religious denominations. I suppose that also qualifies as a "feature." (We won't mention the fact that you can carry on a satisfactory solo sex life in a twin bed, lest the twin beds be replaced with "stand-up beds" consisting of straps on the wall.) There's no need for the Oligarchy to make an explicit No Sex rule. They don't have to, when they can just "nudge" the architecture to enforce that outcome by "nudging" people who might think to disobey. Best of all (from the Oligarchy's perspective), there's nothing to revolt against. A revolt against a type of architecture is like a revolt against traffic jams or weather: there's no obvious evil-doer to hurl ballots and tomatoes at. The Oligarchy likes micro-apartments because they are more profitable per square foot of building, compared to apartments that let you have a bed big enough for two people, and a fridge big enough to let you keep enough food that you don't have to go shopping every day. The working masses (that would be us) who are being lined up to live in these boxes would do well to recognize that they are also about the same size as prison cells. The only difference is that you have the key to your cell, just like inmates in "honor system prisons" for white collar criminals. That, and there isn't a guard staring at you whilst you poop, though I'd be careful about the tiny apartments that come with internet and TV service included (no choice of carriers either), as the "smart sensors" won't be far behind. Smaller houses and apartments are of course part of a viable approach to sustainability: primarily through lower energy consumption and proximity to public transport. Some years ago, a close friend and I came up with various designs for micro-houses, from about 160 square feet, up to about 400 - 500 square feet. A building with a 500 square foot "building footprint" was sufficient for a family of four. We were designing for the sake of sustainability, and for the ability of individuals and communities to build these houses for themselves at low cost. But as with eating bugs, it's one thing to do it by the choice of your own free will, quite another to do it by way of getting mercilessly milked by the Oligarchy. Especially when the Oligarchs continue to live in 12,000 square foot (and larger) mansions with sprawling lawns on all sides. What the world can't afford, is the Oligarchy. Darwin, take note! -G. _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:;> http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

The obvious evil - doer is the laws that make it hard to build new housing in sf. There are strong home owners associations suppressing supply over there and keeping rent high. Does anyone know of an org that tries to counter that, or are developers the only entities that lobby on the other side? Gtwog you amaze me with every post - you're just finding out now that we're none of us free, huh. On Monday, May 20, 2013, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote: _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

Re. Romy- Yes, apts in HK and Tokyo are small, but not so small that you can't have a double bed and a dinner table (Tokyo apts even have space for small washing machines & small wall-mounted dryers). And in any case, Japan has a decent social safety net, something we shredded starting with Reagan. If you're interested, I can show you some floorplans I've created for micro living spaces. The stuff I designed is geared toward the hacker/maker lifestyle with a strong emphasis on sustainability. I'd happily live in a tiny space of my own making, but not a developer's design that can't be hacked or modded and is geared toward the media-consumption lifestyle. Agreed, the large houses Americans have had for the past century or so are ridiculous, not to mention _lawns_. But there's a difference between a wasteful 4,000 square foot suburban sprawl, and an apartment that's smaller than a camping trailer. Something else about those tiny apartments: if your best friend loses his/her job, s/he can't sleep on your couch when there's no room for a couch. Sleeping on the floor in the tiny aisle next to your bed gets old after about the second time s/he gets stepped on when you get out of bed at night to go to the bathroom. The Oligarchy likes to have it both ways: Big houses for people who can afford to buy more stuff. Prison-sized apartments for people who can't. Increase the class divide: more at the top, less at the bottom. The profit motive for those prison-sized apartments is that developers get more per square foot. $750 for 200 square feet translates to $3.75 per square foot. Contrast to $2,000 for 800 square feet, which translates to $2.50 per square foot. See how that works? Fifty percent increase in price per square foot. Clever racket, eh? Decrease in cars is a factor of available public transport for the hours and places needed. Someone who works the late shift across the Bay and comes home after BART stops running, is probably going to end up with a car, even if they have to play parking space roulette every day. BART running 24/7 would do more to decrease car commuting in the Bay Area, than squeezing people into shoe-boxes. Larger apartments mean you have more choices as to how you live and who you live with. Smaller apartments mean fewer choices. Again, we're not talking about multi-thousand-square-foot sprawl, but about having enough space for someone to choose whether to live alone or with a friend, or offer their couch to an unemployed friend, or the options available for single parents with kids who are toddlers or older. 200 square feet also means you can't telecommute or telework, because there's not enough space for even a small desk for a computer. Using a tablet while sitting on the edge of the bed gets old real fast too. And forget about modifying the space in any way: those places are like hotel rooms, no user modifications or space hacks allowed. What's important is _choice_. The choice to work and play at home sometimes, and in communal space sometimes. How these neo boarding houses are worse than work lofts: for one thing, you can't work there. And no space for a kitchen table, so forget about inviting friends over for dinner. No space for anything that involves having more than one other person over for a brief visit. I don't know what'up in SOMA, but at this point nothing would surprise me. Back in the day, a bunch of friends of mine were able to rent a funky space with rabbit holes for bedrooms, affordably, and with a common room big enough to play live music. And they could build what they liked in that space. Less materialism: more than made up for by increased media consumption, which is materialism "de-materialized." All that matters to the Oligarchy is that they harvest money from the proles: they don't care whether they do it by selling you physical stuff or digital stuff. Digital stuff is easier & more profitable because it doesn't require pesky factory workers to produce, and because it's a crime to share digital media. Healthier eating: Those prison-sized apartments have enough space for a dorm-sized fridge and a small microwave. Forget about keeping a decent supply of fresh food on hand unless you want to go shopping every two days. Eating at common workspaces such as SR should also be a _choice_, not something forced by absence of a kitchen. If you prefer working in a communal space, that's your choice. But it really ought to be _your_ choice, not forced by way of not even having room for a desk where you live. Personally I can't concentrate in high-stimulus environments, but I'm set up for working from home and that works for me. A close friend & coworker of mine likes to do both, occasionally working at home and occasionally in a communal space (TechLiminal). The point is the right to choose, just like with reproductive rights. -G. ===== On 13-05-21-Tue 5:39 AM, Romy Ilano wrote: Aren't apartments in Hong Kong and Tokyo even smaller, the size of closets? I don't understand the need for large houses americans have. Most don't even have time to maintain them. I feel like any "profit driven oligarchy" would be against smaller apartments: - larger homes mean you have to buy more. Even large apartments. - small apartments in the city mean probably no car. You always buy more when you have a car Larger apartments mean you have room for a traditional nuclear family. Single people or people who hang out in communal spaces need not apply How does this relate to sudo room? --/well I and many others could be spending all their time in their garage or their backyard instead of sharing & hanging around the sudor (although I feel like sometimes its harder for people to share skilled information ;) than beer and burritos) /- these tiny apartments remind me more of the boarding houses of the turn of the century. They can definitely be improved but I don't understand how they are worse than live work lofts .. Those soma live work lofts enable fabulously wealthy people to move into poor school districts and worm their way out of supporting school taxes -- you have to be minimal to be in a Tiny space. Again less materialism SudoRoom helps me avoid eating out needlessly at cheesy trendy cafes and I can eat healthier too... Instead of fast food I can fill the fridge with fruit -- no work from home... I don't work at home personally. I prefer communal spaces as long as I don't get exploited or harassed. Sudoroom has been pretty fine so far . --- On May 20, 2013, at 15:28, Sonja Trauss &lt;sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: The obvious evil - doer is the laws that make it hard to build new housing in sf. There are strong home owners associations suppressing supply over there and keeping rent high. Does anyone know of an org that tries to counter that, or are developers the only entities that lobby on the other side? Gtwog you amaze me with every post - you're just finding out now that we're none of us free, huh. On Monday, May 20, 2013, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote: No-Sex Apartments. (Creative commons, with attribution to "G.") In cities across the USA, a new "solution" to affordable housing is being promoted: micro-apartments of less than 200 square feet. New York's conrol-freak in chief, Mayor Bloomberg, is promoting them (New Yorkers call them "Bloom Boxes"). A developer in San Francisco is promoting them. And developers in Seattle WA are building them by the hundreds. The Seattle apartments were recently covered in a CBS News article, here: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57582327/tiny-apartments-are-creating-a… If you look at the picture, something immediately stands out: a TWIN BED. As the article says, "...(the) apartment comes with a small private bathroom, a microwave and a mini-refrigerator. There's

The dumb thing about saying "the dumb thing about this thread," is that in the time it takes to complain about someone else's use of recycled electrons, one could have ignored the thread entirely, or done some other productive task, rather than telling the author of the thread what task they should have been doing instead. If I'm not interested in a topic, I just don't read that topic, or thread, or whatever. And one of the key reasons that rents are so high, is that a state legislator from somewhere in 925 managed to pass, about 15 years ago, a state bill that effectively wiped out rent control. Getting him voted out of office would be good retaliation (better late than never) if he's still around, but introducing a ballot measure to re-establish rent control would be even better. That will also take some of the speculative pressure off the finite supply of land. Ultimately what's going to be needed is some kind of comprehensive land reform, prohibiting speculation and the mechanisms that feed it. Another topic for another day. -G. ===== On 13-05-21-Tue 7:19 AM, Sonja Trauss wrote: The dumb thing about this thread is that in the time it took to write any of the multiple paragraph emails, the author could have looked to see whether there are any organizations in SF (or berkeley) lobbying to make building new housing housing easier. Whether or not you can have a relationship in a single bed is irrelevant. Everyone agrees here, rent is too damn high. Part of the cause of this is artificially limited supply. On Tuesday, May 21, 2013, Georgio510 wrote: Re. Romy- Yes, apts in HK and Tokyo are small, but not so small that you can't have a double bed and a dinner table (Tokyo apts even have space for small washing machines & small wall-mounted dryers). And in any case, Japan has a decent social safety net, something we shredded starting with Reagan. If you're interested, I can show you some floorplans I've created for micro living spaces. The stuff I designed is geared toward the hacker/maker lifestyle with a strong emphasis on sustainability. I'd happily live in a tiny space of my own making, but not a developer's design that can't be hacked or modded and is geared toward the media-consumption lifestyle. Agreed, the large houses Americans have had for the past century or so are ridiculous, not to mention _lawns_. But there's a difference between a wasteful 4,000 square foot suburban sprawl, and an apartment that's smaller than a camping trailer. Something else about those tiny apartments: if your best friend loses his/her job, s/he can't sleep on your couch when there's no room for a couch. Sleeping on the floor in the tiny aisle next to your bed gets old after about the second time s/he gets stepped on when you get out of bed at night to go to the bathroom. The Oligarchy likes to have it both ways: Big houses for people who can afford to buy more stuff. Prison-sized apartments for people who can't. Increase the class divide: more at the top, less at the bottom. The profit motive for those prison-sized apartments is that developers get more per square foot. $750 for 200 square feet translates to $3.75 per square foot. Contrast to $2,000 for 800 square feet, which translates to $2.50 per square foot. See how that works? Fifty percent increase in price per square foot. Clever racket, eh? Decrease in cars is a factor of available public transport for the hours and places needed. Someone who works the late shift across the Bay and comes home after BART stops running, is probably going to end up with a car, even if they have to play parking space roulette every day. BART running 24/7 would do more to decrease car commuting in the Bay Area, than squeezing people into shoe-boxes. Larger apartments mean you have more choices as to how you live and who you live with. Smaller apartments mean fewer choices. Again, we're not talking about multi-thousand-square-foot sprawl, but about having enough space for someone to choose whether to live alone or with a friend, or offer their couch to an unemployed friend, or the options available for single parents with kids who are toddlers or older. 200 square feet also means you can't telecommute or telework, because there's not enough space for even a small desk for a computer. Using a tablet while sitting on the edge of the bed gets old real fast too. And forget about modifying the space in any way: those places are like hotel rooms, no user modifications or space hacks allowed. What's important is _choice_. The choice to work and play at home sometimes, and in communal space sometimes. How these neo boarding houses are worse than work lofts: for one thing, you can't work there. And no space for a kitchen table, so forget about inviting friends over for dinner. No space for anything that involves having more than on _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing listsudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 'sudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.org');>http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

I'm trying to help you duh! Lol On Tuesday, May 21, 2013, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote: The dumb thing about saying "the dumb thing about this thread," is that in the time it takes to complain about someone else's use of recycled electrons, one could have ignored the thread entirely, or done some other productive task, rather than telling the author of the thread what task they should have been doing instead. If I'm not interested in a topic, I just don't read that topic, or thread, or whatever. And one of the key reasons that rents are so high, is that a state legislator from somewhere in 925 managed to pass, about 15 years ago, a state bill that effectively wiped out rent control. Getting him voted out of office would be good retaliation (better late than never) if he's still around, but introducing a ballot measure to re-establish rent control would be even better. That will also take some of the speculative pressure off the finite supply of land. Ultimately what's going to be needed is some kind of comprehensive land reform, prohibiting speculation and the mechanisms that feed it. Another topic for another day. -G. ===== On 13-05-21-Tue 7:19 AM, Sonja Trauss wrote:

G., Your personal biases and hang ups are more of a prison than anyone in the so called oligarchy could construct. I'm tired of these troll posts. At Rutgers, every undergrad on campus had a twin bed. Almost anyone who wanted a sexually active relationship, who was capable of social graces, had one. For two people who want to fuck, you'll fuck anywhere. Don't like a twin bed? Sleep on a futon or blanket on the floor. I've personally witnessed five person orgies on a twin bed and on a dorm floor. Expand your mind. For me, this model you invoke of monogamous sleeping arrangements is far from my personal nirvana. Being able to sleep two to a bed and having a good sex life have never been correlated for me. Furthermore, look how my grandparents immigrant generation lived. They'd squeeze families with children into rooms not much bigger, and yet had no problems making more kids. There's so many fucked up ways that our society and government puts us at a disadvantage: sexism, classism, racism, and the ugly specter of lowered expectations. Moral mores and prudery. On and on. But making up new ways the "oligarchy" are "fucking us" isn't helpful. If you don't want to live in 200 sq ft, fine, but I would think its a hell of a lot better than living on 8 sq ft of wet cardboard. If you don't want to eat bugs, fine, but don't ignore thousands of years of grasshopper consumption by Jews (locusts and grasshoppers are specifically enumerated as Kosher!) and Mesoamericans. If you don't like the oligarchy, fine, but this made up world with your rules is just your own oligarchy or dictatorship, and I don't want to live in that world either. These modest proposals are not helping me find how to better participate at sudoroom. Matt (the other one, hbergeronx) On Monday, May 20, 2013, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote: _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

Re. Romy: From what I've observed, from 1/3 to almost half of the folks at SR are in seriously difficult economics, a few are borderline homeless, and one or two are actually homeless. So while it's true that most everyone here is smarter than most of the MBAs we know, the fact that so many smart people are scraping it for rent every month, and in some cases scraping it for food, means something. This is what chronic underemployment looks like, and it's maddening. And it's directly related to corporate lobbying for unlimited H1B visas. When they say "they can't hire enough workers," what they mean is, "...at decent wage levels." What they want are non-citizens with no rights, who they can exploit ruthlessly. And along the way, folks we know can't find work in their fields. It would be interesting to take an anonymous survey (using paper forms with check-boxes, put into a cardboard box) to find out more about our own circumstances as a community. --- A lot more poor people used to go to Burning Man, before it started going corporate. I can't recall any protests at WalMart in the Bay Area, but the Situationist "improper shopper" tactic of a group of protesters peacefully but humorously pushing empty shopping carts around the store for an hour, could be interesting. Some years ago I visited a small town in Northern CA where a new WalMart had just opened, and almost every store along the main strip was boarded-up. That stuff really does happen. It was as if some kind of plague had wiped the place out. Hell, not "as if," it _was_ a plague, a virus that sucks money and jobs out of local economies to fatten up the fat-cats far away. What the world can't afford, is the Oligarchy. -G. ===== On 13-05-21-Tue 5:10 AM, Romy Ilano wrote: Well Matt one thing that everyone here has to consider is : are you the oligarchy? SudoRoom isn't made up of the downtrodden of society. Everyone here is probably smarter than most any MBA I've met Poor people don't go to burning man, poor people don't protest Walmart. (Devils advocate) --- Romy Ilano Founder of Snowyla http://www.snowyla.com romy(a)snowyla.com On May 21, 2013, at 1:02, Matthew Harbowy &lt;hbergeronx(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: G., Your personal biases and hang ups are more of a prison than anyone in the so called oligarchy could construct. I'm tired of these troll posts. At Rutgers, every undergrad on campus had a twin bed. Almost anyone who wanted a sexually active relationship, who was capable of social graces, had one. For two people who want to fuck, you'll fuck anywhere. Don't like a twin bed? Sleep on a futon or blanket on the floor. I've personally witnessed five person orgies on a twin bed and on a dorm floor. Expand your mind. For me, this model you invoke of monogamous sleeping arrangements is far from my personal nirvana. Being able to sleep two to a bed and having a good sex life have never been correlated for me. Furthermore, look how my grandparents immigrant generation lived. They'd squeeze families with children into rooms not much bigger, and yet had no problems making more kids. There's so many fucked up ways that our society and government puts us at a disadvantage: sexism, classism, racism, and the ugly specter of lowered expectations. Moral mores and prudery. On and on. But making up new ways the "oligarchy" are "fucking us" isn't helpful. If you don't want to live in 200 sq ft, fine, but I would think its a hell of a lot better than living on 8 sq ft of wet cardboard. If you don't want to eat bugs, fine, but don't ignore thousands of years of grasshopper consumption by Jews (locusts and grasshoppers are specifically enumerated as Kosher!) and Mesoamericans. If you don't like the oligarchy, fine, but this made up world with your rules is just your own oligarchy or dictatorship, and I don't want to live in that world either. These modest proposals are not helping me find how to better participate at sudoroom. Matt (the other one, hbergeronx) On Monday, May 20, 2013, GtwoG PublicOhOne wrote: _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing listsudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.orghttp://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss

Woot! Paul scores a viral insta-meme: Goolag! Or perhaps Göölag? Goggle is pretty good, but Goolag is right on target in all ways. -G. ==== On 13-05-20-Mon 12:40 PM, Paul Ivanov wrote: what commercializing myopic http://gopher.floodgap.com/gopher/gw?gopher://sdf.org/0/users/rbigelo/gophe… _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org http://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss