Awesome! Forwarding to CCL as well... Patrik On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Jake &lt;ja...(a)spaz.org <javascript:>> wrote:

Environmental vibration and EMI will limit the ability of whatever scanning electron, confocal or scanning tunneling system you put in the building. Look for the environmental vibration specs of the equipment you want to consider. For example: http://fbodaily.com/archive/2004/09-September/02-Sep-2004/FBO-00661968.htm It's a bit of an ugly format but a bit down the page is a list of frequency and magnitude limits under which the JEOL 6400 system operates to spec and defines proper vibration isolation. The high magnification systems may not be able to have sufficient vibration isolation without a very expensive facilities upgrade depending on the floor underpinnings. Trains, motor vehicles on nearby roads and possibly even people walking in the building can transmit vibration that limits the ultimate resolution. Likewise, clean power is essential. Power line conditioning that removes unspec'd frequencies is required or you will never get the system stable enough to hold focus to image or analyze. At least in the past, JEOL was not that good at making their system fit into less than stellar laboratory conditions. Likewise, you will want to be careful about through-the-air electromagnetic interference from things like power lines, etc. The 60Hz frequency from power lines throws a magnetic field through the air that will generate a beat pattern in the images. This will limit the minimum accelerating voltage you can use without interference. Next to the Tesla coil? A Tesla coil creates a magnetic field which will be transmitted through the air to interfere with the electron beam of the SEM. Other things that throw off magnetic fields like transformers, anything that spins or vibrates deliberately like vortexer, centrifuge, orbiters, etc. will throw off magnetic fields, too. Environmental and power considerations are going to make or break the ability of CCL to effectively use the JEOL SEM in the lab. I suppose you might wonder why I would know about SEMs and environmental considerations. One of the areas I worked in at Intel was the replacement of optical critical dimension measurement with SEM critical dimension measurement inside a semiconductor manufacturing facility. We implemented JEOL, Nanometrics and ultimately Hitachi SEM systems. JEOL and Nanometrics were very sensitive to the environment we placed the systems. Hitachi much less so. If you can come across a Hitachi SEM you _might_ be able to make it work in the CCL environment. JEOL SEMs can be very good systems placed in a good clean, vibration isolated location. It will be very difficult (maybe impossible) to get sufficiently useful images or beam control for analytical reasons without such conditions. Cindy On Monday, December 22, 2014 7:05:22 PM UTC-8, patrikd wrote: You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Counter Culture Labs" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to counterculturelabs+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to counterculturelabs(a)googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

The SEM that I remember at Noisebeidge would be much more forgiving overall, but it only went to something like 20,000x or 40,000x magnification. Much lower magnification than the Jeol being discussed here.  That magnification can be fine for many things (I would often only go to 40,000x or 60,000x  looking at battery electrode materials at my last job, even though the instrument I was using would go to 1,000,000x).  I don't think any instrument could be used next to a running tesla coil though.  I think finding a low magnification instrument like that probably wouldn't be too hard.  I actually had realized that the LN2 was only needed for the EDS detector.  The instruments I've used in the past have always had filling the LN2 as part of the standard operating procedure and I guess I never questioned what it was used for. Ben On Thu, Dec 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer &lt;patrikd(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: So you're saying we should not run the SEM while the giant Tesla coil right next to it is running, right? :-D I know there are at least two other hacker EM's in the Bay Area - Ithink Miloh has one, and there is/was a second at Noisebridge that may or may not be in storage somewhere at the moment. Could someone who knows more about these other machines post their specs (and potential availability)? Are there particular types of EM's that are more forgiving in terms of environmental conditions and user friendliness? How does this Jeol machine compare to the others in this regard? Patrik On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 8:55 AM, CindyB &lt;notcindybnot(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: Environmental vibration and EMI will limit the ability of whatever scanning electron, confocal or scanning tunneling system you put in the building. Look for the environmental vibration specs of the equipment you want to consider. For example: http://fbodaily.com/archive/2004/09-September/02-Sep-2004/FBO-00661968.htm  It's a bit of an ugly format but a bit down the page is a list of frequency and magnitude limits under which the JEOL 6400 system operates to spec and defines proper vibration isolation. The high magnification systems may not be able to have sufficient vibration isolation without a very expensive facilities upgrade depending on the floor underpinnings. Trains, motor vehicles on nearby roads and possibly even people walking in the building can transmit vibration that limits the ultimate resolution. Likewise, clean power is essential. Power line conditioning that removes unspec'd frequencies is required or you will never get the system stable enough to hold focus to image or analyze.  At least in the past, JEOL was not that good at making their system fit into less than stellar laboratory conditions. Likewise, you will want to be careful about through-the-air electromagnetic interference from things like power lines, etc. The 60Hz frequency from power lines throws a magnetic field through the air that will generate a beat pattern in the images. This will limit the minimum accelerating voltage you can use without interference. Next to the Tesla coil? A Tesla coil creates a magnetic field which will be transmitted through the air to interfere with the electron beam of the SEM. Other things that throw off magnetic fields like transformers, anything that spins or vibrates deliberately like vortexer, centrifuge, orbiters, etc. will throw off magnetic fields, too. Environmental and power considerations are going to make or break the ability of CCL to effectively use the JEOL SEM in the lab. I suppose you might wonder why I would know about SEMs and environmental considerations. One of the areas I worked in at Intel was the replacement of optical critical dimension measurement with SEM critical dimension measurement inside a semiconductor manufacturing facility. We implemented JEOL, Nanometrics and ultimately Hitachi SEM systems. JEOL and Nanometrics were very sensitive to the environment we placed the systems. Hitachi much less so. If you can come across a Hitachi SEM you _might_ be able to make it work in the CCL environment. JEOL SEMs can be very good systems placed in a good clean, vibration isolated location. It will be very difficult (maybe impossible) to get sufficiently useful images or beam control for analytical reasons without such conditions. Cindy On Monday, December 22, 2014 7:05:22 PM UTC-8, patrikd wrote: Awesome! Forwarding to CCL as well... Patrik On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Jake &lt;ja...(a)spaz.org&gt; wrote: We have been offered a scanning electron microscope.  I have accepted and marc and I will go get it if it's still available. I don't know if it has a spectral detector for EDS, but I got one at Urban Ore yesterday for $25, so we can add that functionality if it doesn't already have it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy-dispersive_X-ray_spectroscopy this picture was taken with a SEM like the one we're getting: http://microscopy.tamu.edu/picture-of-the-month/PoM_708.jpg/image_large here is what the machine probably looks like, based on a google search of Jeol JSM 6400 https://engineering.purdue.edu/MSE/Research/Facilities/XRayFacility/Microst…. jpg we can put it on the border / neutral zone between sudoroom and CCL like the CSAM and tesla coil. -jake ---------- Forwarded message ---------- So, yeah, I can potentially grab a Jeol JSM 6400. You should look at pics. It is fairly large. Right now it is in Santa Barbara. I don't have a good plan for moving it, or putting it somewhere (hopefully where people can use it). The company that bought it was told it works when they bought it, but they never tested it. I should note that I am talking to a few people and I'm hoping one of them works out. I would need to get it Jan 19-20. Does this still interest you? _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-d...(a)lists.sudoroom.org https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Counter Culture Labs" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to counterculturelabs+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to counterculturelabs(a)googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Counter Culture Labs" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to counterculturelabs+unsubscribe(a)googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to counterculturelabs(a)googlegroups.com. 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Yes well it seems nothing is without complication. I re-read the original email and then typed in "Santa Barbara" to my computer, and I discovered that it is a place over 300 miles away by the 101. I have asked for more information about the machine and pictures, so that we can be convinced that it is real before we budget for going to get it. If funds are available, I may be willing to drive a rented U-haul truck from L.A. to pick up the machine and then drive up to Oakland with it, since i'll be at LAX on january 11th anyway. How excited are we about this machine? -jake On Mon, 22 Dec 2014, Jake wrote: We have been offered a scanning electron microscope. I have accepted and sudo-discuss mailing list sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss