sudo-discuss

sudo-discuss@sudoroom.org

14 participants
7489 discussions

by Jenny Ryan

Recorded for posterity at: https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2015-04-08 Sudoroom Meeting April 8, 2015 =Intros= * remote-jenny * ryan * juul * wrought * st. nic * rachel * elliot Icebreaker: What have you broken recently? (the question is also broken) * Juul: I broke a server. It was bad. :) * Adam: I broke my self confidence again **ryan: aw * ryan: i managed to break one of the childproof pill bottle, apparently if you break them, they're not childproof anymore :) * rachel: i broke a cup. but there are other cups * remote-jenny: i broke up a shitton of great potting soil this morning and dumped it in a garden bed :)) * Matt: my patience is broken * Sean F: the last thing i remember breaking was a my lock, i lost my key and i had to break it to get into my backpack * elliot: i broke a nail :) that hurt :( * jebari (opal): probably the last thing i broke was a promise, i know that's kinda vague, but... **ryan: i was waiting for someone to say it * joel (late arrival): I broke the external battery charger for my cell phone * ben (late arrival): =Announcements= ? = Conflict updates = ==Rayc== * Ryan (mediator between rayc): rayc has not contacted Ryan. ==Nic== *Elliot does not want to share space with him, non-engagement with st.nic, would like the SSP to be enforced w/ the language he's used and people he's hurt in the space * juul: you are willing to do mediation as long as you don't have to meet with him in person? * elliot: yes, and with the temporary band that that mediation is done offsite, * matt: both people off-site? * elliot: it's my understandin that he's banned pending mediation * matt: it's not ambiguous, it's exactly what's happening, they're banned during mediation * rachel: here here ==Doc== *Rachel: Doc has not contacted and did not show up last time, but I was 15m late, though I notified people. I think it's worth calling, but the longer the more time there is to process and grow before going through with mediation. I will call again *elliot..... *matt: i think this is heresay and we should discuss it at the appropriate time *rachel: agreed *juul: okay * Does Doc have a Conflict Steward? We really need to have both roles filled. The Steward ensures conflict mediation meetings happen and that they're documented, and helps give updates * Not yet, does anyone volunteer? ==Darin and Elliot== * Joe from FnB is mediating (this is not a sudo conflict). * Who is conflict steward? Helen? ==Kwe and Darin== * not a sudo conflict * juul is mediating * matt is conflict steward =Finances= * $461.10/wk on Gratipay (needs to be $625 minimum) * $1,614.64 in Internet Credit Union acct * Rent has been paid for April, $184.27 * does everyone need to consent on a < $30 legal fees for taxes to get cleaned up? ** we don't have quorum but yeah: go ahead (juul) ** i don't think so, your call exchequer (juul) ==Gratipay/IACU Issue== * No deposits received for the month of March: 3/5, 3/12, 3/19, 3/26 =Sudo Proposals= ==Fundraiser party, already!!== * Suggested dates: May 1 (in tandem with SPAZ soundsystem in the basement and First Friday art in the ballroom [no performance planned though, we could do an open mic / 5 minutes of fame type of thing]) - sorry am now discussing the front desk proposal below * everyone: we should have it in actual sudo room, not ballroom * ryan: I can write an invitation * juul: we should request both cash donations and donations of time in the next two weeks to help with renovation/construction * hightechpyro(a)gmail.com has a canon pixma pro something printer than can print on thick things like tiles. If anyone wants to make things for the fundraiser, contact him! * Ryan suggests getting stickers for sudo and using the printer to make coasters. * 15th is deadline for party planning: https://pad.riseup.net/p/partypad ** FUCK YEAH PARTYPAD!!1 ==Sudo Proposal: Buy Stickers== * Get design from: https://sudoroom.org/wiki/Logo * Responsibilibuddy :P - Jenny/juul =Omni Proposals= == Discussion of proposed mural designs == * General feedback discussion, remaining sensitive to everyone involved, not rushing the process. * Links / References for potential improvements: ** Possible to use brighter tones of the same/similar colors? *** e.g. refer to Tom Killion style (japanese coloring technique): http://tomkillion.com/gallery/show?keyword=tam ==Front Door Station Proposal== * pad.riseup.net/p/omninom - rachel - https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8a4XV1TCQ8XTk5ra1RmY2tkWVhlUnVfZzBJVi1YX2… ** this is being rerouted to a preliminary conversation between Welcoming Committee and La Commune. it has been removed from the pad as it was not consensed to be there by Welcoming WG. - jenny **okay, everyone in welcoming seemed all behind do-acratically doing it, Niki at first, but then she alerted me to la commune's concerns ** i for one am totally behind it, that's not the point. we should operate by full consensus whenever possible, and bring things to delegates for consensus once it's fully vetted. **to work with la commune before posting it to the meeting? ** yeah! i just sent an email with your proposal to welcoming and la commune folks <3 **yeah, i wanted to send it to delegates for that reason, but you're totes right, this is smooter and specifically respectful ** btw i love that you made a fucking sketchup model ;) **thanks :) ==New Members== * https://sudoroom.org/membership * See emails to members =Action Items= * See partypad :) * Need conflict steward for Doc, Darin(omni not sudo), ** Doc and Darin or Elliot need to email mediation(a)omnicommons.org, can optionally suggest a preferred steward (they are not obligated to commit) * get taxes cleaned up * remove Newbie Night - jenny - just edited it to end today (4/8) -- Jenny http://jennyryan.net http://sudomesh.org http://thevirtualcampfire.org http://technomadic.tumblr.com `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~` "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories." -Laurie Anderson "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining it." -Hannah Arendt "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create." -Stéphane Mallarmé ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`

11 years

Re: [sudo-discuss] [omni-mediation] Today 4/4/15: Pidgen and Daren have been temp banned for safer spaces policy violations

by yar

On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Patrick O'Doherty <p(a)trickod.com> wrote: > Not to armchair-hackerspace but this thread is turning rapidly into > community poison. I think our community is strong enough to handle this and ignore one thread if they're not interested in it. I don't see the point in people writing more emails about how someone else should write fewer emails ... oops.

11 years

this week in tech (4/7/15) - Bitcoin Foundation is “effectively bankrupt”

by Louis Huang

Bitcoin Foundation is “effectively bankrupt,” board member says http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/04/bitcoin-foundation-is-effectively-b… Union Bank of Switzerland to Open Blockchain Lab http://www.coinbuzz.com/2015/04/03/union-bank-of-switzerland-to-open-blockc… The Problem With Using End-to-End Web Crypto as a Cure-All https://www.indolering.com/e2e-web-crypto No, These Biohackers Can’t Give Themselves Infrared Vision http://www.wired.com/2015/04/no-biohackers-cant-give-infrared-vision/ Let’s Make ‘Off The Grid’ A Thing Of The Past http://techcrunch.com/2015/04/01/why-its-more-important-than-ever-to-make-o… DIY New Technology http://www.instructables.com/id/New-Technology/ --- Find more interesting articles on Nubbii (https://nubbii.com), a real time news stream.

11 years

Re: [sudo-discuss] Today 4/4/15: Pidgen and Daren have been temp banned for safer spaces policy violations

by WIld Cat

Here Is what Centi sent me about Pidgeon's Violation of the Non-engagement agreement: Pigeon and I completed a conflict mediation process at the Omni facilitated by Jenny and Ryan. The outcome was a mutual non-engagement agreement. Pigeon has admitted to me, and others, to having sexually assaulted my friend Charity in 2012 at a homeless shelter in Portland. The last time I saw Charity was several months ago, she was pregnant and living on the street in Eugene. When I was taking a shit in the upstairs bathroom at the Omni, Pigeon knocked on the door to check if someone is inside. I responded that I would be out in a minute. Pigeon, then wrote a series of messages on tape that included 'Knock thrice to banish entitlement demons', and posted them on the bathroom door, directed at me. Pigeon's former girlfriend Maria, disclosed that Pigeon made posts on twitter such as "Everyone at that house should be stabbed and shot" which included me, along with other violent suggestions Pigeon took a picture of me on her phone, directly outside the Omni last week, when I was walking inside the Omni Recently, Pigeon has made hostile and provocative sound gestures when I have walked past her in the Omni When I was at the Omni the entire day doing research on the computer in the Sudo Room, I walked outside to smoke a cigarette, and left my back pack. Pigeon was sitting nearby the whole time I was there, and then filled the bottom of my bag with rotten eggs and food waste, which stained my books and personal items while I was outside and my bag was unattended. My bag still smells. Pigeon took pictures of me on her phone in the social services office. Pigeon attempted to get Charlie fired from her job by contacting her employer. Pigeon has threatened and chased Dante with a hammer. Pigeon has been exposed, within groups, for spreading lies and false rumors about select people. Including, false information that has placed individuals within dangerous, high-risk, and unsafe positions. Pigeon has recklessly and indiscriminately made claims against groups of people including, transphobia and transbashing, despite contrary evidence. Pigeons chronic behavior has damaged, neutralized, compromised, and interfered with constructive work and a matrix of social relationships. On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:29 AM, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> wrote: > "* If you don't believe people can change, you don't believe in RJ or > TJ, **and I would LOVE to hear your alternative**to my eyes the only > other options are punishment or annihilation, like the state does,** if > you're really radical, you'll seek alternative forms of resolution** besides > exile, punishment and "training" people, * > *whenever possible. I do believe people can change but sometimes you need > to draw a line and make sure that the mediation process isn't being abused > by the perpetrator. Comparing my forms of dealing with accountability to > the State and it's prison/jail industrial complex is gravely offensive to > me. I have been to jail before for being homeless - ( 3 charges of > tresspassing) - stopping cops from beating people up or using a car to > crash into a crowd -( 2 charges obstructing a peace officer)- getting > crashed into by a cop - (assault on an officer- charges dropped) stopping > the earth from being destroyed and otherwise homeless peoples camps by > blockade ( 2 charges obstruction of a roadway) Every time was arrested I > endured beatings as well as mental and once extreme physical torture. > Comparing my process to such a brutal process as the state's is really > fucked up.* > > NOT ONCE have I seen you actually pursue mediation. No one has asked me > to attend a meeting or anything but when ever people have wanted to talk to > me I have stopped what I was doing to talk about accountability issues. > This is pursuing mediation. I also took the ban proposals to the sudo > meetings and have an informal mediation with FNB Joe. > > *IN FACT WildCAt is currently refusing to participate in more than one > mediation, **and while in some cases i actually agree with that other > person being banned, and see the issues clear** my problem wtih this is > not about that person being banned,** I often think WildCat is right,* > * but it's about THE PROCESS AND RESPECTING IT Not wanting to engage with > people I do not feel safe around is not failing to mediate. Like I have > said no one asked me to go to a follow up meeeting.* > > *You Still Have To Go To Mediation **In Some Case In Your Life, Why > would i be talking on this list if i wasnt interested in mediation* > *If You Recognize The Process At All - * Rachel I followed process by > emailing y'all and I followed the steps of the Safer Spaces policy: > > "These are some examples of unacceptable behavior. This list is by no > means exhaustive. Harassment includes but is not limited to: > > - *Deliberate intimidation - Babs and I * > - *Deliberate misgendering or use of ‘dead’ or rejected names - > Calling me a dude and man with aggressive and accentuaded tone implying it > was intentional misgendering* > - *Threats of violence - Telling me that we should walk a couple of > blocks to settle it like adults implying he wanted to fight.* > - *Gratuitous or off-topic sexual images or behaviour in spaces where > they’re not appropriate - Telling me he liked phone sex the yelling at me > about how I needed to get off of my phone in sudo room. rather than asking > me calmly,* > > 4.‎ ‏Consequences‭ ‬of‭ ‬Unacceptable‭ ‬Behavior > > Unacceptable‭ ‬behavior‭ ‬from‭ ‬any‭one at the Omni,‭ ‬including‭ > ‬sponsors‭ ‬and‭ ‬those‭ ‬with‭ ‬decision-making‭ ‬authority,‭ ‬will‭ ‬not‭ > ‬be‭ ‬tolerated. > > Anyone‭ ‬asked‭ ‬to‭ ‬stop‭ ‬unacceptable‭ ‬behavior‭ ‬is‭ ‬expected‭ ‬to‭ > ‬comply‭ ‬immediately. If‭ ‬someone‭ ‬engages‭ ‬in‭ ‬unacceptable‭ > ‬behavior,‭* anyone* at the Omni‬‭ should feel empowered to take action > to address the situation (i.e., talk to the person involved, point out > violent or threatening behavior, *ask them to leave the space*, etc.). In > cases where someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may be put in > place until the Omni's conflict resolution process can be followed to > resolution. ‬ > > > 5.‎ ‏If‭ ‬You‭ ‬Witness‭ ‬or‭ ‬Are‭ ‬Subject‭ ‬to‭ ‬Unacceptable‭ ‬Behavior > > This section needs to be fleshed out more - please see it as a draft in > progress. > > - *Everyone should feel empowered to confront aggressive individuals, > but we recommend that you do not approach a potentially violent conflict > without another community member, preferably a core organizer, co-present.* > > _______________________________ > > *If You're Willing To Work On It " - I am working my ass off on it.* > > *BTW I talked to people who lived at Hellarity (susie and enola) whom > confirmed that Darin was asked to leave multiple times for sexually > innapripriate behaivor but keeped showing up. * > > *Also he was banned from the G-spot Squat immediately after for sexually > grinding on/groping a person during a party which Susie Q and I were at. > (more that I have not talked to) * > > > > On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 2:56 AM, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I think Rachel is\ blowing my proposals out of proportion by saying >> >> "*What would you do with them? * >> *Put them all in one country? * >> *Kind of like a concentration of them?* >> * Like a camp? Kill them all off? **All bad ideas." * >> >> I am not saying he is banned I am discussing proposals for a ban and a >> constructive resolution. I as a non-member can still call on the safer >> space policy to have someone temp banned from the space to establish >> safety. No one has asked that I go to a mediation meeting I just said that >> I didn't want to talk to any of these people directly. >> >> >> "* If you don't believe people can change, you don't believe in RJ or >> TJ, * >> *and I would LOVE to hear your alternative* >> *to my eyes the only other options are punishment or annihilation, like >> the state does,* >> * if you're really radical, you'll seek alternative forms of resolution* >> * besides exile, punishment and "training" people, * >> *whenever possible. * >> >> *NOT ONCE have I seen you actually pursue mediation. * >> >> *IN FACT WildCAt is currently refusing to participate in more than one >> mediation, * >> *and while in some cases i actually agree with that other person being >> banned, and see the issues clear* >> * my problem wtih this is not about that person being banned,* >> * I often think WildCat is right,* >> * but it's about THE PROCESS AND RESPECTING IT* >> >> *You Still Have To Go To Mediation * >> *In Some Case In Your Life, * >> *If You Recognize The Process At All* >> >> *If You're Willing To Work On It, "* >> >> >> Rachel I followed process by emailing y'all and I followed the steps of >> the Safer Spaces policy: >> >> "These are some examples of unacceptable behavior. This list is by no >> means exhaustive. Harassment includes but is not limited to: >> >> - *Deliberate intimidation - Babs and I * >> - *Deliberate misgendering or use of ‘dead’ or rejected names - >> Calling me a dude and man with aggressive and accentuaded tone implying it >> was intentional misgendering* >> - *Threats of violence - Telling me that we should walk a couple of >> blocks to settle it like adults implying he wanted to fight.* >> - *Gratuitous or off-topic sexual images or behaviour in spaces where >> they’re not appropriate - Telling me he liked phone sex the yelling at me >> about how I needed to get off of my phone in sudo room. rather than asking >> me calmly,* >> >> 4.‎ ‏Consequences‭ ‬of‭ ‬Unacceptable‭ ‬Behavior >> >> Unacceptable‭ ‬behavior‭ ‬from‭ ‬any‭one at the Omni,‭ ‬including‭ >> ‬sponsors‭ ‬and‭ ‬those‭ ‬with‭ ‬decision-making‭ ‬authority,‭ ‬will‭ ‬not‭ >> ‬be‭ ‬tolerated. >> >> Anyone‭ ‬asked‭ ‬to‭ ‬stop‭ ‬unacceptable‭ ‬behavior‭ ‬is‭ ‬expected‭ >> ‬to‭ ‬comply‭ ‬immediately. If‭ ‬someone‭ ‬engages‭ ‬in‭ ‬unacceptable‭ >> ‬behavior,‭* anyone* at the Omni‬‭ should feel empowered to take action >> to address the situation (i.e., talk to the person involved, point out >> violent or threatening behavior, *ask them to leave the space*, etc.). >> In cases where someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may be put in >> place until the Omni's conflict resolution process can be followed to >> resolution. ‬ >> >> >> 5.‎ ‏If‭ ‬You‭ ‬Witness‭ ‬or‭ ‬Are‭ ‬Subject‭ ‬to‭ ‬Unacceptable‭ >> ‬Behavior >> >> This section needs to be fleshed out more - please see it as a draft in >> progress. >> >> - *Everyone should feel empowered to confront aggressive individuals, >> but we recommend that you do not approach a potentially violent conflict >> without another community member, preferably a core organizer, co-present.* >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 3:25 PM, <hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote: >> >>> friendly reminder - our conflict resolution process was born out of a >>> desire to keep conflicts from consuming the time and energy of the whole >>> community, especially those that are not involved in the conflict and do >>> not have bandwidth to help mediate as an impartial party - this includes >>> general meetings and discussion forums >>> >>> >>> On 2015-04-06 14:02, Rachel Wolfsohn wrote: >>> >>> I'm sorry, Torrie, I really am....sudoconsensus may be needed? >>>> On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Torrie Fischer < >>>> tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> This is very not important to me because I don't want to read this on >>>>> sudo >>>>> discuss so I'm unsubscribing from sudo discuss for a while because >>>>> everyone >>>>> keeps including sudo-discuss as if it somehow makes everything better. >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, April 06, 2015 11:59:40 AM Rachel Wolfsohn wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> This is very important to me, because I said I wouldn't keep >>>>>> including sudo >>>>>> discuss, and now i'm going back on that >>>>>> but WildCat does keep including sudo-discuss, >>>>>> so I feel like I can't leave it at some long email to one side bias, >>>>>> whether mine or not >>>>>> so I'm responding to sudo discuss >>>>>> to be heard by the group who is already hearing this >>>>>> >>>>>> sigh, i'm sorry, but I'm upset now.... >>>>>> >>>>>> *People NEED to be given a chance to change. * >>>>>> *Just because you knew someone for a long time and saw problematic >>>>>> behavior >>>>>> before doesn't mean they can't come to a new place, * >>>>>> *and a reformed community, * >>>>>> *where they can try to learn and grow. * >>>>>> >>>>>> *If people are not given a chance to grow what would you do with >>>>>> them?* >>>>>> >>>>>> * If you don't believe people can change, you don't believe in RJ or >>>>>> TJ, * >>>>>> *and I would LOVE to hear your alternative* >>>>>> *to my eyes the only other options are punishment or annihilation, >>>>>> like the >>>>>> state does,* >>>>>> * if you're really radical, you'll seek alternative forms of >>>>>> resolution* >>>>>> * besides exile, punishment and "training" people, * >>>>>> *whenever possible. * >>>>>> >>>>>> *NOT ONCE have I seen you actually pursue mediation. * >>>>>> >>>>>> *IN FACT WildCAt is currently refusing to participate in more than one >>>>>> mediation, * >>>>>> *and while in some cases i actually agree with that other person being >>>>>> banned, and see the issues clear* >>>>>> * my problem wtih this is not about that person being banned,* >>>>>> * I often think WildCat is right,* >>>>>> * but it's about THE PROCESS AND RESPECTING IT* >>>>>> >>>>>> *You Still Have To Go To Mediation * >>>>>> *In Some Case In Your Life, * >>>>>> *If You Recognize The Process At All* >>>>>> >>>>>> *If You're Willing To Work On It, * >>>>>> >>>>>> *The Refusal Of Mediation Is There To Keep People Safe* >>>>>> * In Dire Circumstances * >>>>>> *Not In Any Case You Want* >>>>>> * And Every Case All The Time* >>>>>> * Because You Feel Like It And It's Your Privilege* >>>>>> >>>>>> *I don't feel like you're respecting that process....* >>>>>> >>>>>> PERSONALLY I feel: >>>>>> Exile is not a real option for the world. If someone is continuously >>>>>> exiled >>>>>> and not educated and transforming, they will have no where else to >>>>>> go. This >>>>>> is part of the world, you can't just close yourself off from it and >>>>>> ignore >>>>>> people >>>>>> >>>>>> *If you want it to get better, really get better, judging people and >>>>>> pushing them out is not the way to actually help it* >>>>>> >>>>>> *What would you do with them? * >>>>>> *Put them all in one country? * >>>>>> *Kind of like a concentration of them?* >>>>>> * Like a camp? Kill them all off? **All bad ideas. * >>>>>> >>>>>> *We need to help people grow, and * >>>>>> *if you consider yourself an organizer * >>>>>> *or a helper of the world* >>>>>> * it IS your job to help people grow a* >>>>>> *nd give people another chance, * >>>>>> *provided they seek new conditions that will faciiltate growth* >>>>>> >>>>>> *It has to come from them. Yes.* >>>>>> *And it is coming from Darin, * >>>>>> *however slowly he's learning* >>>>>> >>>>>> Btw "WildCat" You are not yet a member of sudo yet. >>>>>> And you're scaring people, >>>>>> with all your bans in a row all of a sudden, >>>>>> >>>>>> now that you think you have power >>>>>> >>>>>> *i'm not quitting, but this email put me back over, i'm taking another >>>>>> break.* >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Cere Misc <cere.misc(a)gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> PLEASE TAKE THIS OFF THE SUDO-DISCUSS LIST! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:32 AM, WIld Cat < >>>>>>> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Also with that one month ban I feel that from then on there would >>>>>>>> need to >>>>>>>> be zero tolerance for any of these behaviors to continue. Last time >>>>>>>> I saw >>>>>>>> him he challenged me to a fight by saying " do you want to walk a >>>>>>>> couple >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> blocks away and handle this like an adult" and my response was to >>>>>>>> walk >>>>>>>> away.. someone brought up to me that I was causing drama by drawing >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> line with these people but what folks need to understand is that >>>>>>>> each of >>>>>>>> these people have been going through conflict mediation in this >>>>>>>> space so >>>>>>>> the drama is theirs not mine. I should not be the one to blame for >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> taking a stance against the problems these people are causing. >>>>>>>> Though to >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> accountable in dealing with peoples issues I will gather more >>>>>>>> members of >>>>>>>> the space to address them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, April 6, 2015, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So I have known Darin for years and he has been called out for all >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> this behavior before and still hasn't learned. In terms of him >>>>>>>>> misgendering >>>>>>>>> me it seemed malicious because he accentuated " man" there were >>>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>>> witnesses to his extremely aggressive behavior that was a defensive >>>>>>>>> response to me calmly asking why he was yelling at Babs. sexual >>>>>>>>> harassment >>>>>>>>> is not OK. I don't think you can speak for the other people who >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> called >>>>>>>>> him out for inappropriate flirting. I had the conflict mediated by >>>>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>> but still just acts the same to different people. I would propose a >>>>>>>>> month >>>>>>>>> ban at least so he gets that its not being accountable will have >>>>>>>>> serious >>>>>>>>> consequences. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 5, 2015, Rachel Wolfsohn <rawjnana(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is the last email I will include sudodisxuss on for this >>>>>>>>>> thread... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Darin is currently undergoing mediation, and should be given the >>>>>>>>>> chance >>>>>>>>>> to do so before a ban goes through. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have a blocking concern for such a ban on darin.... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My belief that darin can change enough, however slowly, is >>>>>>>>>> justified >>>>>>>>>> and potent. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have seen he already has. In front of me at least, he no longer >>>>>>>>>> misgenders anyone, including those ppl he previously had, after we >>>>>>>>>> discussed it one night. Even if he's pissed at them. An immediate >>>>>>>>>> improvement from the heart and higher self layered under psychic >>>>>>>>>> shit >>>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>>> we all have to deal with just like him, is what I see...He is >>>>>>>>>> actively >>>>>>>>>> working, works hard in general and physically protects ppl from >>>>>>>>>> harassment >>>>>>>>>> daily. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Misgendering: >>>>>>>>>> I too have been editing "he" for "them" with you Wildcat, because >>>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>>> gender pronoun is recent news to me as well as to many others. >>>>>>>>>> I strive to use They, bc of respect for trans identity in >>>>>>>>>> general, and >>>>>>>>>> ALSO camaraderie with you. >>>>>>>>>> But it takes a little time, and it is in good faith with >>>>>>>>>> continuous >>>>>>>>>> editing on my part, as it is for others. >>>>>>>>>> I'm really sorry you are hurt by misgendering and will do my best >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> correct the instances I witness. As I'm sure Darin will too, now >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>> information is available >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sexual Language: >>>>>>>>>> Darin is working on this too. I have twice hung out with darin and >>>>>>>>>> neded to comment on his comments, asking him to hold his tongue, >>>>>>>>>> bc it >>>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>>> TMI about his sexual thoughts. >>>>>>>>>> It was not safe space language, and I asked him to.hold his >>>>>>>>>> tongue, but >>>>>>>>>> not an implication of action either, more like expression. >>>>>>>>>> Without FAIL he immediately apologizes and aims to hold back such >>>>>>>>>> comments. He is actively learning what to reserve to his private >>>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>>> and I appreciate it from the bottom of my heart... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Thus, I have a blocking.concern for this ban suggested for Darin >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Love, seriously, love, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 05, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Torrie Fischer < >>>>>>>>>> tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Theres community issues, then theres "issues that involve the >>>>>>>>>> hundreds >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> people subscribed to sudo-discuss". >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This is not one of those issues. I have no involvement with this. >>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>> don't want >>>>>>>>>> to get involved with this. I'd honestly rather not hear about who >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> fighting >>>>>>>>>> who, or see people tearing down each other in public. I'd rather >>>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>>> hack a >>>>>>>>>> thing and assume that Sudo Room is a happy cheery place that has >>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>> shit >>>>>>>>>> together and everyone gets along. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My Ƀ0.02. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, April 04, 2015 03:37:39 PM WIld Cat wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > These are community issues not personal issues. >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Tracy Jacobs < >>>>>>>>>> kinetical(a)comcast.net> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > > Sudoers, >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > Respectfully can I suggest that you find another way to >>>>>>>>>> address >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> issues of >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > > a personal nature and character assassinations or public >>>>>>>>>> shaming >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > > than >>>>>>>>>> > > this public mailing list? Why anyone would want to go to Sudo >>>>>>>>>> room >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > > reading this mailing list is beyond my comprehension. And it >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> really is a >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > > great place. Can anyone think of another venue for these >>>>>>>>>> types of >>>>>>>>>> > > discussions? >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > Tracy >>>>>>>>>> > > On Apr 4, 2015, at 2:41 PM, WIld Cat < >>>>>>>>>> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > > Daren returned to the space about 20 mins after trying to >>>>>>>>>> re-enter >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > > said to me " Do you want to go a couplwe blocks away from >>>>>>>>>> here and >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> handle >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > > this like an adult." >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > Pidgen is claiming that I threatened her and I did tell her >>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "you need >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > > to chill out or some shit is going to happen" but I also >>>>>>>>>> clarified >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > > saying "I am not threatening you with any form of violence." >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > Darin is claiming that Babs sexually assaulted someone but >>>>>>>>>> Darin >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> did not >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > > give any details of what happened. >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 2:00 PM, WIld Cat < >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> > >> Today Pidgen was asked to leave in violation of the safer >>>>>>>>>> spaces >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> policy >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> on an admitted account of sexual assault in the past as well >>>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> recent >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> behaviors of harassment. Daren was asked to leave in >>>>>>>>>> violation of >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> safer >>>>>>>>>> > >> spaces policy by aggressive behavior (aggressive swearing, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> intentional >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> misgendering, inappropriate sexual comments (Told me in an >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> aggressive way >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> that he liked phone sex, than began to yell at me.) He has >>>>>>>>>> had a >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> history >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> of >>>>>>>>>> > >> being banned from spaces for similar behaviors of sexual >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> harassment and >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> inappropriate behavior. >>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> I would like to begin a mediation process for Daren and I do >>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> safe with him being in the space during such process. >>>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>>> > >> To my knowledge there is an ongoing mediation between Pidgen >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Centi. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> that Pidgen has allegedly violated due to harassing behavior. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Pidgen has >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> been banned from several other radical spaces for entitlement >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> problems - >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> > >> theft - aggressive behaivor - accountability issues. >>>>>>>>>> > >> I do not feel safe in the presences of Pidgen and would call >>>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>>> > >> the >>>>>>>>>> > >> community to permanently ban Pidgen. >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> > > sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>>>>>> > > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>>>>>> > > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss [1] >>>> >>> >>> >>> Links: >>> ------ >>> [1] https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >> >> >

11 years

Fwd: Today 4/4/15: Pidgen and Daren have been temp banned for safer spaces policy violations

by WIld Cat

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> Date: Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:29 AM Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Today 4/4/15: Pidgen and Daren have been temp banned for safer spaces policy violations To: Hol Gaskill <hol(a)gaskill.com> Cc: Rachel Wolfsohn <rawjnana(a)gmail.com>, "mediation(a)omnicommons.org" < mediation(a)omnicommons.org>, cdc(a)lists.omnicommons.org "* If you don't believe people can change, you don't believe in RJ or TJ, **and I would LOVE to hear your alternative**to my eyes the only other options are punishment or annihilation, like the state does,** if you're really radical, you'll seek alternative forms of resolution** besides exile, punishment and "training" people, * *whenever possible. I do believe people can change but sometimes you need to draw a line and make sure that the mediation process isn't being abused by the perpetrator. Comparing my forms of dealing with accountability to the State and it's prison/jail industrial complex is gravely offensive to me. I have been to jail before for being homeless - ( 3 charges of tresspassing) - stopping cops from beating people up or using a car to crash into a crowd -( 2 charges obstructing a peace officer)- getting crashed into by a cop - (assault on an officer- charges dropped) stopping the earth from being destroyed and otherwise homeless peoples camps by blockade ( 2 charges obstruction of a roadway) Every time was arrested I endured beatings as well as mental and once extreme physical torture. Comparing my process to such a brutal process as the state's is really fucked up.* NOT ONCE have I seen you actually pursue mediation. No one has asked me to attend a meeting or anything but when ever people have wanted to talk to me I have stopped what I was doing to talk about accountability issues. This is pursuing mediation. I also took the ban proposals to the sudo meetings and have an informal mediation with FNB Joe. *IN FACT WildCAt is currently refusing to participate in more than one mediation, **and while in some cases i actually agree with that other person being banned, and see the issues clear** my problem wtih this is not about that person being banned,** I often think WildCat is right,* * but it's about THE PROCESS AND RESPECTING IT Not wanting to engage with people I do not feel safe around is not failing to mediate. Like I have said no one asked me to go to a follow up meeeting.* *You Still Have To Go To Mediation **In Some Case In Your Life, Why would i be talking on this list if i wasnt interested in mediation* *If You Recognize The Process At All - * Rachel I followed process by emailing y'all and I followed the steps of the Safer Spaces policy: "These are some examples of unacceptable behavior. This list is by no means exhaustive. Harassment includes but is not limited to: - *Deliberate intimidation - Babs and I * - *Deliberate misgendering or use of ‘dead’ or rejected names - Calling me a dude and man with aggressive and accentuaded tone implying it was intentional misgendering* - *Threats of violence - Telling me that we should walk a couple of blocks to settle it like adults implying he wanted to fight.* - *Gratuitous or off-topic sexual images or behaviour in spaces where they’re not appropriate - Telling me he liked phone sex the yelling at me about how I needed to get off of my phone in sudo room. rather than asking me calmly,* 4.‎ ‏Consequences‭ ‬of‭ ‬Unacceptable‭ ‬Behavior Unacceptable‭ ‬behavior‭ ‬from‭ ‬any‭one at the Omni,‭ ‬including‭ ‬sponsors‭ ‬and‭ ‬those‭ ‬with‭ ‬decision-making‭ ‬authority,‭ ‬will‭ ‬not‭ ‬be‭ ‬tolerated. Anyone‭ ‬asked‭ ‬to‭ ‬stop‭ ‬unacceptable‭ ‬behavior‭ ‬is‭ ‬expected‭ ‬to‭ ‬comply‭ ‬immediately. If‭ ‬someone‭ ‬engages‭ ‬in‭ ‬unacceptable‭ ‬behavior,‭* anyone* at the Omni‬‭ should feel empowered to take action to address the situation (i.e., talk to the person involved, point out violent or threatening behavior, *ask them to leave the space*, etc.). In cases where someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may be put in place until the Omni's conflict resolution process can be followed to resolution. ‬ 5.‎ ‏If‭ ‬You‭ ‬Witness‭ ‬or‭ ‬Are‭ ‬Subject‭ ‬to‭ ‬Unacceptable‭ ‬Behavior This section needs to be fleshed out more - please see it as a draft in progress. - *Everyone should feel empowered to confront aggressive individuals, but we recommend that you do not approach a potentially violent conflict without another community member, preferably a core organizer, co-present.* _______________________________ *If You're Willing To Work On It " - I am working my ass off on it.* *BTW I talked to people who lived at Hellarity (susie and enola) whom confirmed that Darin was asked to leave multiple times for sexually innapripriate behaivor but keeped showing up. * *Also he was banned from the G-spot Squat immediately after for sexually grinding on/groping a person during a party which Susie Q and I were at. (more that I have not talked to) * On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 2:56 AM, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I think Rachel is\ blowing my proposals out of proportion by saying > > "*What would you do with them? * > *Put them all in one country? * > *Kind of like a concentration of them?* > * Like a camp? Kill them all off? **All bad ideas." * > > I am not saying he is banned I am discussing proposals for a ban and a > constructive resolution. I as a non-member can still call on the safer > space policy to have someone temp banned from the space to establish > safety. No one has asked that I go to a mediation meeting I just said that > I didn't want to talk to any of these people directly. > > > "* If you don't believe people can change, you don't believe in RJ or > TJ, * > *and I would LOVE to hear your alternative* > *to my eyes the only other options are punishment or annihilation, like > the state does,* > * if you're really radical, you'll seek alternative forms of resolution* > * besides exile, punishment and "training" people, * > *whenever possible. * > > *NOT ONCE have I seen you actually pursue mediation. * > > *IN FACT WildCAt is currently refusing to participate in more than one > mediation, * > *and while in some cases i actually agree with that other person being > banned, and see the issues clear* > * my problem wtih this is not about that person being banned,* > * I often think WildCat is right,* > * but it's about THE PROCESS AND RESPECTING IT* > > *You Still Have To Go To Mediation * > *In Some Case In Your Life, * > *If You Recognize The Process At All* > > *If You're Willing To Work On It, "* > > > Rachel I followed process by emailing y'all and I followed the steps of > the Safer Spaces policy: > > "These are some examples of unacceptable behavior. This list is by no > means exhaustive. Harassment includes but is not limited to: > > - *Deliberate intimidation - Babs and I * > - *Deliberate misgendering or use of ‘dead’ or rejected names - > Calling me a dude and man with aggressive and accentuaded tone implying it > was intentional misgendering* > - *Threats of violence - Telling me that we should walk a couple of > blocks to settle it like adults implying he wanted to fight.* > - *Gratuitous or off-topic sexual images or behaviour in spaces where > they’re not appropriate - Telling me he liked phone sex the yelling at me > about how I needed to get off of my phone in sudo room. rather than asking > me calmly,* > > 4.‎ ‏Consequences‭ ‬of‭ ‬Unacceptable‭ ‬Behavior > > Unacceptable‭ ‬behavior‭ ‬from‭ ‬any‭one at the Omni,‭ ‬including‭ > ‬sponsors‭ ‬and‭ ‬those‭ ‬with‭ ‬decision-making‭ ‬authority,‭ ‬will‭ ‬not‭ > ‬be‭ ‬tolerated. > > Anyone‭ ‬asked‭ ‬to‭ ‬stop‭ ‬unacceptable‭ ‬behavior‭ ‬is‭ ‬expected‭ ‬to‭ > ‬comply‭ ‬immediately. If‭ ‬someone‭ ‬engages‭ ‬in‭ ‬unacceptable‭ > ‬behavior,‭* anyone* at the Omni‬‭ should feel empowered to take action > to address the situation (i.e., talk to the person involved, point out > violent or threatening behavior, *ask them to leave the space*, etc.). In > cases where someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may be put in > place until the Omni's conflict resolution process can be followed to > resolution. ‬ > > > 5.‎ ‏If‭ ‬You‭ ‬Witness‭ ‬or‭ ‬Are‭ ‬Subject‭ ‬to‭ ‬Unacceptable‭ ‬Behavior > > This section needs to be fleshed out more - please see it as a draft in > progress. > > - *Everyone should feel empowered to confront aggressive individuals, > but we recommend that you do not approach a potentially violent conflict > without another community member, preferably a core organizer, co-present.* > > > _________________________________________________________________________________ > > > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 3:25 PM, <hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote: > >> friendly reminder - our conflict resolution process was born out of a >> desire to keep conflicts from consuming the time and energy of the whole >> community, especially those that are not involved in the conflict and do >> not have bandwidth to help mediate as an impartial party - this includes >> general meetings and discussion forums >> >> >> On 2015-04-06 14:02, Rachel Wolfsohn wrote: >> >> I'm sorry, Torrie, I really am....sudoconsensus may be needed? >>> On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Torrie Fischer < >>> tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net> wrote: >>> >>> This is very not important to me because I don't want to read this on >>>> sudo >>>> discuss so I'm unsubscribing from sudo discuss for a while because >>>> everyone >>>> keeps including sudo-discuss as if it somehow makes everything better. >>>> >>>> On Monday, April 06, 2015 11:59:40 AM Rachel Wolfsohn wrote: >>>> >>>>> This is very important to me, because I said I wouldn't keep including >>>>> sudo >>>>> discuss, and now i'm going back on that >>>>> but WildCat does keep including sudo-discuss, >>>>> so I feel like I can't leave it at some long email to one side bias, >>>>> whether mine or not >>>>> so I'm responding to sudo discuss >>>>> to be heard by the group who is already hearing this >>>>> >>>>> sigh, i'm sorry, but I'm upset now.... >>>>> >>>>> *People NEED to be given a chance to change. * >>>>> *Just because you knew someone for a long time and saw problematic >>>>> behavior >>>>> before doesn't mean they can't come to a new place, * >>>>> *and a reformed community, * >>>>> *where they can try to learn and grow. * >>>>> >>>>> *If people are not given a chance to grow what would you do with them?* >>>>> >>>>> * If you don't believe people can change, you don't believe in RJ or >>>>> TJ, * >>>>> *and I would LOVE to hear your alternative* >>>>> *to my eyes the only other options are punishment or annihilation, >>>>> like the >>>>> state does,* >>>>> * if you're really radical, you'll seek alternative forms of >>>>> resolution* >>>>> * besides exile, punishment and "training" people, * >>>>> *whenever possible. * >>>>> >>>>> *NOT ONCE have I seen you actually pursue mediation. * >>>>> >>>>> *IN FACT WildCAt is currently refusing to participate in more than one >>>>> mediation, * >>>>> *and while in some cases i actually agree with that other person being >>>>> banned, and see the issues clear* >>>>> * my problem wtih this is not about that person being banned,* >>>>> * I often think WildCat is right,* >>>>> * but it's about THE PROCESS AND RESPECTING IT* >>>>> >>>>> *You Still Have To Go To Mediation * >>>>> *In Some Case In Your Life, * >>>>> *If You Recognize The Process At All* >>>>> >>>>> *If You're Willing To Work On It, * >>>>> >>>>> *The Refusal Of Mediation Is There To Keep People Safe* >>>>> * In Dire Circumstances * >>>>> *Not In Any Case You Want* >>>>> * And Every Case All The Time* >>>>> * Because You Feel Like It And It's Your Privilege* >>>>> >>>>> *I don't feel like you're respecting that process....* >>>>> >>>>> PERSONALLY I feel: >>>>> Exile is not a real option for the world. If someone is continuously >>>>> exiled >>>>> and not educated and transforming, they will have no where else to go. >>>>> This >>>>> is part of the world, you can't just close yourself off from it and >>>>> ignore >>>>> people >>>>> >>>>> *If you want it to get better, really get better, judging people and >>>>> pushing them out is not the way to actually help it* >>>>> >>>>> *What would you do with them? * >>>>> *Put them all in one country? * >>>>> *Kind of like a concentration of them?* >>>>> * Like a camp? Kill them all off? **All bad ideas. * >>>>> >>>>> *We need to help people grow, and * >>>>> *if you consider yourself an organizer * >>>>> *or a helper of the world* >>>>> * it IS your job to help people grow a* >>>>> *nd give people another chance, * >>>>> *provided they seek new conditions that will faciiltate growth* >>>>> >>>>> *It has to come from them. Yes.* >>>>> *And it is coming from Darin, * >>>>> *however slowly he's learning* >>>>> >>>>> Btw "WildCat" You are not yet a member of sudo yet. >>>>> And you're scaring people, >>>>> with all your bans in a row all of a sudden, >>>>> >>>>> now that you think you have power >>>>> >>>>> *i'm not quitting, but this email put me back over, i'm taking another >>>>> break.* >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Cere Misc <cere.misc(a)gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> PLEASE TAKE THIS OFF THE SUDO-DISCUSS LIST! >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:32 AM, WIld Cat < >>>>>> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Also with that one month ban I feel that from then on there would >>>>>>> need to >>>>>>> be zero tolerance for any of these behaviors to continue. Last time >>>>>>> I saw >>>>>>> him he challenged me to a fight by saying " do you want to walk a >>>>>>> couple >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> blocks away and handle this like an adult" and my response was to >>>>>>> walk >>>>>>> away.. someone brought up to me that I was causing drama by drawing >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> line with these people but what folks need to understand is that >>>>>>> each of >>>>>>> these people have been going through conflict mediation in this >>>>>>> space so >>>>>>> the drama is theirs not mine. I should not be the one to blame for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> taking a stance against the problems these people are causing. >>>>>>> Though to >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> accountable in dealing with peoples issues I will gather more >>>>>>> members of >>>>>>> the space to address them. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, April 6, 2015, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So I have known Darin for years and he has been called out for all >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> this behavior before and still hasn't learned. In terms of him >>>>>>>> misgendering >>>>>>>> me it seemed malicious because he accentuated " man" there were >>>>>>>> several >>>>>>>> witnesses to his extremely aggressive behavior that was a defensive >>>>>>>> response to me calmly asking why he was yelling at Babs. sexual >>>>>>>> harassment >>>>>>>> is not OK. I don't think you can speak for the other people who have >>>>>>>> called >>>>>>>> him out for inappropriate flirting. I had the conflict mediated by >>>>>>>> Joe >>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>> but still just acts the same to different people. I would propose a >>>>>>>> month >>>>>>>> ban at least so he gets that its not being accountable will have >>>>>>>> serious >>>>>>>> consequences. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sunday, April 5, 2015, Rachel Wolfsohn <rawjnana(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is the last email I will include sudodisxuss on for this >>>>>>>>> thread... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Darin is currently undergoing mediation, and should be given the >>>>>>>>> chance >>>>>>>>> to do so before a ban goes through. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have a blocking concern for such a ban on darin.... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My belief that darin can change enough, however slowly, is >>>>>>>>> justified >>>>>>>>> and potent. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have seen he already has. In front of me at least, he no longer >>>>>>>>> misgenders anyone, including those ppl he previously had, after we >>>>>>>>> discussed it one night. Even if he's pissed at them. An immediate >>>>>>>>> improvement from the heart and higher self layered under psychic >>>>>>>>> shit >>>>>>>>> like >>>>>>>>> we all have to deal with just like him, is what I see...He is >>>>>>>>> actively >>>>>>>>> working, works hard in general and physically protects ppl from >>>>>>>>> harassment >>>>>>>>> daily. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Misgendering: >>>>>>>>> I too have been editing "he" for "them" with you Wildcat, because >>>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>>> gender pronoun is recent news to me as well as to many others. >>>>>>>>> I strive to use They, bc of respect for trans identity in general, >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> ALSO camaraderie with you. >>>>>>>>> But it takes a little time, and it is in good faith with continuous >>>>>>>>> editing on my part, as it is for others. >>>>>>>>> I'm really sorry you are hurt by misgendering and will do my best >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> correct the instances I witness. As I'm sure Darin will too, now >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>> information is available >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sexual Language: >>>>>>>>> Darin is working on this too. I have twice hung out with darin and >>>>>>>>> neded to comment on his comments, asking him to hold his tongue, >>>>>>>>> bc it >>>>>>>>> was >>>>>>>>> TMI about his sexual thoughts. >>>>>>>>> It was not safe space language, and I asked him to.hold his >>>>>>>>> tongue, but >>>>>>>>> not an implication of action either, more like expression. >>>>>>>>> Without FAIL he immediately apologizes and aims to hold back such >>>>>>>>> comments. He is actively learning what to reserve to his private >>>>>>>>> thoughts >>>>>>>>> and I appreciate it from the bottom of my heart... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thus, I have a blocking.concern for this ban suggested for Darin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Love, seriously, love, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 05, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Torrie Fischer < >>>>>>>>> tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Theres community issues, then theres "issues that involve the >>>>>>>>> hundreds >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> people subscribed to sudo-discuss". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This is not one of those issues. I have no involvement with this. I >>>>>>>>> don't want >>>>>>>>> to get involved with this. I'd honestly rather not hear about who >>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> fighting >>>>>>>>> who, or see people tearing down each other in public. I'd rather >>>>>>>>> just >>>>>>>>> hack a >>>>>>>>> thing and assume that Sudo Room is a happy cheery place that has >>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>> shit >>>>>>>>> together and everyone gets along. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My Ƀ0.02. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, April 04, 2015 03:37:39 PM WIld Cat wrote: >>>>>>>>> > These are community issues not personal issues. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Tracy Jacobs < >>>>>>>>> kinetical(a)comcast.net> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > > Sudoers, >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > Respectfully can I suggest that you find another way to address >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> issues of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > > a personal nature and character assassinations or public >>>>>>>>> shaming >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > > than >>>>>>>>> > > this public mailing list? Why anyone would want to go to Sudo >>>>>>>>> room >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > > reading this mailing list is beyond my comprehension. And it >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> really is a >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > > great place. Can anyone think of another venue for these types >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> > > discussions? >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > Tracy >>>>>>>>> > > On Apr 4, 2015, at 2:41 PM, WIld Cat < >>>>>>>>> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > > Daren returned to the space about 20 mins after trying to >>>>>>>>> re-enter >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > > said to me " Do you want to go a couplwe blocks away from here >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> handle >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > > this like an adult." >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > Pidgen is claiming that I threatened her and I did tell her >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "you need >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > > to chill out or some shit is going to happen" but I also >>>>>>>>> clarified >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > > saying "I am not threatening you with any form of violence." >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > Darin is claiming that Babs sexually assaulted someone but >>>>>>>>> Darin >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> did not >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > > give any details of what happened. >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 2:00 PM, WIld Cat < >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > > wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >> Today Pidgen was asked to leave in violation of the safer >>>>>>>>> spaces >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> policy >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > >> on an admitted account of sexual assault in the past as well >>>>>>>>> as >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> recent >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > >> behaviors of harassment. Daren was asked to leave in >>>>>>>>> violation of >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > >> safer >>>>>>>>> > >> spaces policy by aggressive behavior (aggressive swearing, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> intentional >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > >> misgendering, inappropriate sexual comments (Told me in an >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> aggressive way >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > >> that he liked phone sex, than began to yell at me.) He has >>>>>>>>> had a >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> history >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > >> of >>>>>>>>> > >> being banned from spaces for similar behaviors of sexual >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> harassment and >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > >> inappropriate behavior. >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> I would like to begin a mediation process for Daren and I do >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > >> safe with him being in the space during such process. >>>>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>>>> > >> To my knowledge there is an ongoing mediation between Pidgen >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Centi. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > >> that Pidgen has allegedly violated due to harassing behavior. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pidgen has >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > >> been banned from several other radical spaces for entitlement >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> problems - >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > >> theft - aggressive behaivor - accountability issues. >>>>>>>>> > >> I do not feel safe in the presences of Pidgen and would call >>>>>>>>> on >>>>>>>>> > >> the >>>>>>>>> > >> community to permanently ban Pidgen. >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> > > sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>>>>> > > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>>>>> > > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss [1] >>> >> >> >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> > >

11 years

Software Hacking Thursdays at sudoroom - who will host?

by Jake

I run Hardware Hacking Tuesdays every week at sudoroom. It's easy, most people who show up have their own things to do, but i do bring stuff for people who want to make something and don't know what (the synthesizers) I think someone should step up and turn Thursdays into Software Hacking Thursdays. It doesn't need to have any more structure than that, just a member who is willing to show up regularly on thursday (or find a sub) and welcome new people, and introduce people to each other who have similar interests. Ideally the host can answer basic questions about getting people started toward learning whatever they're interested in. Already there is a Javascript Group that meets often at sudoroom on thursdays, but they're not always there, and not everyone knows what javascript is or wants to learn it. I believe that simply by having a regular occurence of this type of event, sudoroom will attract more people through weekly rhythm and we will grow our community of excellent people. It is already happening on tuesdays. Who is interested? -jake

11 years

CCL label maker missing - please return!

by Patrik D'haeseleer

Has anyone seen CCL's label maker? It's been missing for a week or two now. This is the second label maker I've bought that has gone missing. If you see it, PLEASE bring it back to CCL - it is clearly labeled (duh) Time to start putting locks on the door, and security cables on all essential equipment? Sigh... Patrik

11 years

Re: [sudo-discuss] Today 4/4/15: Pidgen and Daren have been temp banned for safer spaces policy violations

by Rachel Wolfsohn

This is very important to me, because I said I wouldn't keep including sudo discuss, and now i'm going back on that but WildCat does keep including sudo-discuss, so I feel like I can't leave it at some long email to one side bias, whether mine or not so I'm responding to sudo discuss to be heard by the group who is already hearing this sigh, i'm sorry, but I'm upset now.... *People NEED to be given a chance to change. * *Just because you knew someone for a long time and saw problematic behavior before doesn't mean they can't come to a new place, * *and a reformed community, * *where they can try to learn and grow. * *If people are not given a chance to grow what would you do with them?* * If you don't believe people can change, you don't believe in RJ or TJ, * *and I would LOVE to hear your alternative* *to my eyes the only other options are punishment or annihilation, like the state does,* * if you're really radical, you'll seek alternative forms of resolution* * besides exile, punishment and "training" people, * *whenever possible. * *NOT ONCE have I seen you actually pursue mediation. * *IN FACT WildCAt is currently refusing to participate in more than one mediation, * *and while in some cases i actually agree with that other person being banned, and see the issues clear* * my problem wtih this is not about that person being banned,* * I often think WildCat is right,* * but it's about THE PROCESS AND RESPECTING IT* *You Still Have To Go To Mediation * *In Some Case In Your Life, * *If You Recognize The Process At All* *If You're Willing To Work On It, * *The Refusal Of Mediation Is There To Keep People Safe* * In Dire Circumstances * *Not In Any Case You Want* * And Every Case All The Time* * Because You Feel Like It And It's Your Privilege* *I don't feel like you're respecting that process....* PERSONALLY I feel: Exile is not a real option for the world. If someone is continuously exiled and not educated and transforming, they will have no where else to go. This is part of the world, you can't just close yourself off from it and ignore people *If you want it to get better, really get better, judging people and pushing them out is not the way to actually help it* *What would you do with them? * *Put them all in one country? * *Kind of like a concentration of them?* * Like a camp? Kill them all off? **All bad ideas. * *We need to help people grow, and * *if you consider yourself an organizer * *or a helper of the world* * it IS your job to help people grow a* *nd give people another chance, * *provided they seek new conditions that will faciiltate growth* *It has to come from them. Yes.* *And it is coming from Darin, * *however slowly he's learning* Btw "WildCat" You are not yet a member of sudo yet. And you're scaring people, with all your bans in a row all of a sudden, now that you think you have power *i'm not quitting, but this email put me back over, i'm taking another break.* On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Cere Misc <cere.misc(a)gmail.com> wrote: > PLEASE TAKE THIS OFF THE SUDO-DISCUSS LIST! > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:32 AM, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Also with that one month ban I feel that from then on there would need to >> be zero tolerance for any of these behaviors to continue. Last time I saw >> him he challenged me to a fight by saying " do you want to walk a couple of >> blocks away and handle this like an adult" and my response was to walk >> away.. someone brought up to me that I was causing drama by drawing the >> line with these people but what folks need to understand is that each of >> these people have been going through conflict mediation in this space so >> the drama is theirs not mine. I should not be the one to blame for the >> taking a stance against the problems these people are causing. Though to be >> accountable in dealing with peoples issues I will gather more members of >> the space to address them. >> >> >> On Monday, April 6, 2015, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> So I have known Darin for years and he has been called out for all of >>> this behavior before and still hasn't learned. In terms of him misgendering >>> me it seemed malicious because he accentuated " man" there were several >>> witnesses to his extremely aggressive behavior that was a defensive >>> response to me calmly asking why he was yelling at Babs. sexual harassment >>> is not OK. I don't think you can speak for the other people who have called >>> him out for inappropriate flirting. I had the conflict mediated by Joe but >>> but still just acts the same to different people. I would propose a month >>> ban at least so he gets that its not being accountable will have serious >>> consequences. >>> >>> On Sunday, April 5, 2015, Rachel Wolfsohn <rawjnana(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> This is the last email I will include sudodisxuss on for this thread... >>>> >>>> Darin is currently undergoing mediation, and should be given the chance >>>> to do so before a ban goes through. >>>> >>>> I have a blocking concern for such a ban on darin.... >>>> >>>> My belief that darin can change enough, however slowly, is justified >>>> and potent. >>>> >>>> I have seen he already has. In front of me at least, he no longer >>>> misgenders anyone, including those ppl he previously had, after we >>>> discussed it one night. Even if he's pissed at them. An immediate >>>> improvement from the heart and higher self layered under psychic shit like >>>> we all have to deal with just like him, is what I see...He is actively >>>> working, works hard in general and physically protects ppl from harassment >>>> daily. >>>> >>>> Misgendering: >>>> I too have been editing "he" for "them" with you Wildcat, because your >>>> gender pronoun is recent news to me as well as to many others. >>>> I strive to use They, bc of respect for trans identity in general, and >>>> ALSO camaraderie with you. >>>> But it takes a little time, and it is in good faith with continuous >>>> editing on my part, as it is for others. >>>> I'm really sorry you are hurt by misgendering and will do my best to >>>> correct the instances I witness. As I'm sure Darin will too, now that this >>>> information is available >>>> >>>> Sexual Language: >>>> Darin is working on this too. I have twice hung out with darin and >>>> neded to comment on his comments, asking him to hold his tongue, bc it was >>>> TMI about his sexual thoughts. >>>> It was not safe space language, and I asked him to.hold his tongue, but >>>> not an implication of action either, more like expression. >>>> Without FAIL he immediately apologizes and aims to hold back such >>>> comments. He is actively learning what to reserve to his private thoughts >>>> and I appreciate it from the bottom of my heart... >>>> >>>> Thus, I have a blocking.concern for this ban suggested for Darin >>>> >>>> Love, seriously, love, >>>> >>>> On Sun, Apr 05, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Torrie Fischer < >>>> tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> Theres community issues, then theres "issues that involve the hundreds >>>> of >>>> people subscribed to sudo-discuss". >>>> >>>> This is not one of those issues. I have no involvement with this. I >>>> don't want >>>> to get involved with this. I'd honestly rather not hear about who is >>>> fighting >>>> who, or see people tearing down each other in public. I'd rather just >>>> hack a >>>> thing and assume that Sudo Room is a happy cheery place that has their >>>> shit >>>> together and everyone gets along. >>>> >>>> My Ƀ0.02. >>>> >>>> On Saturday, April 04, 2015 03:37:39 PM WIld Cat wrote: >>>> > These are community issues not personal issues. >>>> > >>>> > On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Tracy Jacobs <kinetical(a)comcast.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> > > Sudoers, >>>> > > >>>> > > Respectfully can I suggest that you find another way to address >>>> issues of >>>> > > a personal nature and character assassinations or public shaming >>>> other >>>> > > than >>>> > > this public mailing list? Why anyone would want to go to Sudo room >>>> after >>>> > > reading this mailing list is beyond my comprehension. And it >>>> really is a >>>> > > great place. Can anyone think of another venue for these types of >>>> > > discussions? >>>> > > >>>> > > Tracy >>>> > > On Apr 4, 2015, at 2:41 PM, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> > > >>>> > > Daren returned to the space about 20 mins after trying to re-enter >>>> and >>>> > > said to me " Do you want to go a couplwe blocks away from here and >>>> handle >>>> > > this like an adult." >>>> > > >>>> > > Pidgen is claiming that I threatened her and I did tell her that >>>> "you need >>>> > > to chill out or some shit is going to happen" but I also clarified >>>> by >>>> > > saying "I am not threatening you with any form of violence." >>>> > > >>>> > > Darin is claiming that Babs sexually assaulted someone but Darin >>>> did not >>>> > > give any details of what happened. >>>> > > >>>> > > On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 2:00 PM, WIld Cat < >>>> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com> >>>> > > >>>> > > wrote: >>>> > >> Today Pidgen was asked to leave in violation of the safer spaces >>>> policy >>>> > >> on an admitted account of sexual assault in the past as well as >>>> recent >>>> > >> behaviors of harassment. Daren was asked to leave in violation of >>>> the >>>> > >> safer >>>> > >> spaces policy by aggressive behavior (aggressive swearing, >>>> intentional >>>> > >> misgendering, inappropriate sexual comments (Told me in an >>>> aggressive way >>>> > >> that he liked phone sex, than began to yell at me.) He has had a >>>> history >>>> > >> of >>>> > >> being banned from spaces for similar behaviors of sexual >>>> harassment and >>>> > >> inappropriate behavior. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> I would like to begin a mediation process for Daren and I do not >>>> feel >>>> > >> safe with him being in the space during such process. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> To my knowledge there is an ongoing mediation between Pidgen and >>>> Centi. >>>> > >> that Pidgen has allegedly violated due to harassing behavior. >>>> Pidgen has >>>> > >> been banned from several other radical spaces for entitlement >>>> problems - >>>> > >> theft - aggressive behaivor - accountability issues. >>>> > >> I do not feel safe in the presences of Pidgen and would call on the >>>> > >> community to permanently ban Pidgen. >>>> > > >>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>> > > sudo-discuss mailing list >>>> > > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>> > > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >> sudo-discuss mailing list >> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >> >> > -- <3 Rachel

11 years

Portland hackerspace?

by Candace Lazarou

Visiting Portland next week - does anyone know about the hackerspaces up there and where I should/can go to work on computer based projects?

11 years

Fwd: [omni-helpdesk] Equipment donations

by niki

Maybe you wants? ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Pons Maar <ponzzz(a)sonic.net> Date: Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:35 AM Subject: [omni-helpdesk] Equipment donations To: info(a)omnicommons.org I have a 13” sony broadcast monitor (CRT not flat screen) and 2 SATA hard drives, LaCie brand 400G each, I am looking to give away. Everything is well maintained and works. Would you have any use for these items? If so I can bring them by. Thanks, Pons Maar _______________________________________________ helpdesk mailing list helpdesk(a)lists.omnicommons.org https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/helpdesk

11 years

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