[sudo-discuss] Re: [omni-consensus] Cleanliness Accountability Committee proposal

if there is no power conferred by the delegates approving that part of their proposal, then I don't see why it's necessary for the delegates to pass the proposal. They already have the ability to assert that someone should pay fines in the way you're suggesting. -jake were to problems >>>> without the weaponization of this new committee. >>>> >>>> I don't understand why, after passing everything except the ability to >>> levy >>>> fines, we're still focusing on approving that part of the proposal as >>> if it's a >>>> highly important and desirable dynamic that we want to add to our >>> community. >>>> >>>> -jakonlye >>>> >>>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2022, Yardena Cohen via sudo-discuss wrote: >>>> >>>>> Kent, that is what the proposal says and what the committee intends. >>>>> They're not authoritarian monsters. Their plan is to ask first, with >>>>> kindness and diplomacy, give people some time, and then impose fines >>>>> if that doesn't work. >>>>> >>>>> The status quo is that no matter how bad things get, "some sort of >>>>> action by Omni" cannot be taken, and Jake is blocking the part of the >>>>> proposal which says action could eventually be taken. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2022 at 8:49 PM Kent Leech via sudo-discuss >>>>> <sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote: >>>>>> Why not just ask the messy groups to clean up first? Kindness and >>> diplomacy can go further. Give the messy group some time to tidy up and >>> move on. >>>>>> >>>>>> If it’s a real dysfunctional group that ignores multiple clean-up >>> requests, then some sort of action by Omni could be taken. >>>>>> >>>>>> -Kent >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> >>>>>> Kent Leech Illustration >>>>>> http://www.kentleech.com >>>>>> kent(a)kentleech.com >>>>>> +1 (510) 504-0634 >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> >>>>>> Reply-To: Jake Watters <typeinthenumber(a)gmail.com> >>>>>> Date: Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 2:35 AM >>>>>> To: <sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> >>>>>> Subject: [sudo-discuss] [omni-consensus] Cleanliness Accountability >>> Committee proposal >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Sudoroom, >>>>>> >>>>>> THIS IS IMPORTANT! >>>>>> >>>>>> The following proposal was brought to the delegate's meeting a >>> couple of weeks >>>>>> ago, and tonight in the meeting it was discussed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Since I had not been attending delegates meetings for some time, I >>> failed to >>>>>> forward this proposal to this list so that sudoroom could discuss >>> our position >>>>>> on it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Since I am a Sudoroom member, I voiced my position through our >>> delegate (which >>>>>> is me) that I am against giving a committee the power to levy fines >>> against >>>>>> omni collectives/tenants/people, especially since we have not tried >>> a process >>>>>> of simple communication between a cleaning collective and >>> representatives of >>>>>> collectives. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ultimately the other Omni delegates felt strongly about passing the >>> proposal, >>>>>> but they were willing to remove the provision giving the new >>> Committee the >>>>>> ability to "impose a monetary penalty" on groups or individuals they >>> determined >>>>>> were guilty of being messy. The proposal was partially passed as >>> seen here: >>>>>> >>>>>> https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Event:2022/09/15_Delegates#cleanliness >>>>>> yar: if we approve the proposal but delay the fine enforcement until >>> after our >>>>>> october 6 meeting, and require another affirmative consensus >>> decision on >>>>>> october 6 to give them that fine enforcement power? >>>>>> jake: is ok with that >>>>>> CONSENSUS: YES (CCL/Patrik ANV/Silver SUDOROOM/Jake FNB/Helen >>> CLP/Billy >>>>>> MOP/Jacqi) >>>>>> ABSTAIN: (SUDOMESH/Camber) >>>>>> BLOCK: (none), PASSES! >>>>>> >>>>>> I personally think it's unreasonable to trust a newly formed >>> Committee with >>>>>> the power to, for example, determine that Sudoroom is too messy and >>> issue >>>>>> "fines" of $50 per day until they feel that we have satisfied their >>> standard, >>>>>> and I'm glad that the other delegates were willing to remove this >>> provision >>>>>> even though they were technically capable of overriding sudoroom's >>> objections. >>>>>> >>>>>> This provision is set to be reintroduced at the Delegate's meeting >>> on OCTOBER >>>>>> 6TH and Sudoroom needs to discuss our position, in order for our >>> delegate to >>>>>> represent us at that meeting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please see the link below for the proposed text of the new Committee >>> (same link >>>>>> is in the meeting notes above) and discuss the provision that's >>> slated for >>>>>> October 6th Delegate's meeting. >>>>>> >>>>>> -jake >>>>>> >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>>>> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 06:08:55 +0000 >>>>>> From: deskhandle <deskhandle(a)protonmail.com> >>>>>> To: consensus <consensus(a)lists.omnicommons.org> >>>>>> Subject: [omni-consensus] Cleanliness Accountability Committee >>> proposal >>>>>> >>>>>> https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/GcTDiTZqA3ao5+6hbaAuobdc/ >>>>>> >>>>>> At the delegate's meeting tonight, we discussed a proposal >>> formulated by the >>>>>> Events team which is linked above. This is a draft proposal and >>> instructions >>>>>> for how to suggest edits are on top of the doc. Please do not edit >>> the content >>>>>> directly. >>>>>> >>>>>> In short, it exists to create a new committee which will oversee the >>>>>> cleanliness of the space, design and implement new systems to do so, >>> including >>>>>> a monetary penalty for any space left out of order for both shared >>> spaces and >>>>>> tenant spaces. If you're able to be an active and dedicated >>> participant in that >>>>>> committee, please join us on Slack. >>>>>> >>>>>> This committee would also be able to spend some amount of Omni funds >>> to clean >>>>>> the space regularly and keep it at a level of cleanliness that must >>> be >>>>>> maintained for Omni to exist. Please check this out and get back >>> with any >>>>>> thoughts, concerns, suggestions before it's voted on at the next >>> delegate's >>>>>> meeting. >>>>>> >>>>>> Billy >>>>>> Community Liberation Programs >>>>>> _______________________________________________ sudo-discuss mailing >>> list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org To unsubscribe send an email to >>> sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org More options at >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>>> More options at >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>>>> More options at >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list -- sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to sudo-discuss-leave(a)sudoroom.org >>> More options at >>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/postorius/lists/sudo-discuss.sudoroom.org/ >>> >> >