3 Oct
2022
3 Oct
'22
2:24 p.m.
1) Billy's pronouns are they/them
2) the committee HAS begun organizing already, in a public channel on
omni's slack which anybody is welcome to join. ping me with your email
address for an invite to omni slack
3) what is so wrong with the term laissez faire?
4) This proposal is NOT an attempt to target you personally in any
way. It is an attempt to solve real problems related to ongoing work
by the dozens of people who use and maintain common spaces at omni.
It's really really really not about you. Please make better attempts
at resolving your personal problems out of band so they stop leaking
into omni business and wasting everybody else's time.
On Sun, Oct 2, 2022 at 4:40 PM Jake via sudo-discuss
<sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
Patrik, what you're missing about this proposal is that it was made by someone
who has shown themselves to be too immature to handle such power.
A while ago Billy got upset because some speakers got moved into the ballroom
and he felt they were in the way. I responded to his question about how they
got moved there and he went on an embarrassing rampage on the consensus list,
ending with a threat to unilaterally "get rid of" the speakers, and describing
the discussion as a "pissing contest" (another way to say "penis size
comparison") as seen in this thread (read the whole thing for context):
https://omnicommons.org/pipermail/consensus/2022-August/003618.html
two weeks later, Billy proposed the "Cleanliness Accountability Proposal" with
the ability to levy fines against people he decides have been irresponsible.
https://omnicommons.org/pipermail/consensus/2022-September/003634.html
Since the only time i've heard of a conflict about a "mess" being cleaned
up on
any email lists (and i'm on a bunch of them) has been Billy targeting me
personally, I don't think it makes sense to deputize him to be able to levy
fines against people.
He also accused us of being "laissez faire" in the meeting since we were
hesitating to pass his proposal. Maybe you didn't notice that.
As for you being in favor of the proposal, the proposal has been passed with
the sole exception of the ability to levy fines. The fact that we're spending
so much energy discussing this one point makes me question why it's so much
more important than any other aspect of the proposal. There has been no
discussion of budget, or coordination of this new committee, since the proposal
was passed, the only discussion has been advocating for the ability to levy
fines.
-jake
On Sun, 2 Oct 2022, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
I'm in favor of giving this proposal a
chance. As Yar said, we can always
decide to revoke it again if it turns out not to work the way we like.
Patrik
On Sun, Oct 2, 2022, 3:27 PM Jake via sudo-discuss <
sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org> wrote:
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Yes this is the case, messes need to be addressed
and accountability
assigned, but I don't think it makes sense to suddenly grant the power to
issue "fines" to a newly formed committee without having any context for the
specific need for such a thing.
So far i've heard a lot of yelling that this is needed, and an accusation
that the Omni Commons is too "laissez-faire" to function properly, implying
that what we really need is a police department with an iron fist. I am not
convinced.
Kent, as delegate I need to solicit peoples' positions on this upcoming
proposal so please be clear about how you want our position to be
represented.
-jake
On Thu, 29 Sep 2022, Kent Leech via sudo-discuss wrote:
Why not just ask the messy groups to clean up
first? Kindness and diplomacy
can go further. Give the messy group some time to tidy up and move on.
If it's a real dysfunctional group that ignores multiple clean-up requests,
then some sort of action by Omni could be taken.
-Kent
-----
Kent Leech Illustration
http://www.kentleech.com
kent(a)kentleech.com
+1 (510) 504-0634
--
From: Jake Watters via sudo-discuss <sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org>
Reply-To: Jake Watters <typeinthenumber(a)gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, September 29, 2022 at 2:35 AM
To: <sudo-discuss(a)sudoroom.org>
Subject: [sudo-discuss] [omni-consensus] Cleanliness Accountability
Committee proposal
> Hi Sudoroom,
>
> THIS IS IMPORTANT!
>
> The following proposal was brought to the delegate's meeting a couple
of
weeks
> ago, and tonight in the meeting it was
discussed.
>
> Since I had not been attending delegates meetings for some time, I
failed to
> forward this proposal to this list so that
sudoroom could discuss our
position
> on it.
>
> Since I am a Sudoroom member, I voiced my position through our delegate
(which
> is me) that I am against giving a committee
the power to levy fines
against
> omni collectives/tenants/people, especially
since we have not tried a
process
> of simple communication between a cleaning
collective and
representatives of
> collectives.
>
> Ultimately the other Omni delegates felt strongly about passing the
proposal,
> but they were willing to remove the provision
giving the new Committee
the
> ability to "impose a monetary
penalty" on groups or individuals they
> determined
> were guilty of being messy. The proposal was partially passed as seen
here:
>
> https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Event:2022/09/15_Delegates#cleanliness
> yar: if we approve the proposal but delay the fine enforcement until
after
our
> october 6 meeting, and require another
affirmative consensus
decision on
> october 6 to give them that fine
enforcement power?
> jake: is ok with that
> CONSENSUS: YES (CCL/Patrik ANV/Silver SUDOROOM/Jake FNB/Helen CLP/Billy
> MOP/Jacqi)
> ABSTAIN: (SUDOMESH/Camber)
> BLOCK: (none), PASSES!
>
> I personally think it's unreasonable to trust a newly formed Committee
with
> the power to, for example, determine that
Sudoroom is too messy and
issue
> "fines" of $50 per day until they
feel that we have satisfied their
standard,
> and I'm glad that the other delegates
were willing to remove this
provision
> even though they were technically capable of
overriding sudoroom's
objections.
>
> This provision is set to be reintroduced at the Delegate's meeting on
OCTOBER
> 6TH and Sudoroom needs to discuss our
position, in order for our
delegate to
> represent us at that meeting.
>
> Please see the link below for the proposed text of the new Committee
(same
> link
> is in the meeting notes above) and discuss the provision that's slated
for
> October 6th Delegate's meeting.
>
> -jake
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2022 06:08:55 +0000
> From: deskhandle <deskhandle(a)protonmail.com>
> To: consensus <consensus(a)lists.omnicommons.org>
> Subject: [omni-consensus] Cleanliness Accountability Committee proposal
>
> https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/edit/GcTDiTZqA3ao5+6hbaAuobdc/
>
> At the delegate's meeting tonight, we discussed a proposal formulated
by
the
> Events team which is linked above. This is a
draft proposal and
instructions
> for how to suggest edits are on top of the
doc. Please do not edit the
content
> directly.
>
> In short, it exists to create a new committee which will oversee the
> cleanliness of the space, design and implement new systems to do so,
including
> a monetary penalty for any space left out of
order for both shared
spaces and
> tenant spaces. If you're able to be an
active and dedicated participant
in
> that
> committee, please join us on Slack.
>
> This committee would also be able to spend some amount of Omni funds to
clean
> the space regularly and keep it at a level of
cleanliness that must be
> maintained for Omni to exist. Please check this out and get back with
any
> thoughts, concerns, suggestions before
it's voted on at the next
delegate's
> meeting.
>
> Billy
> Community Liberation Programs
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