25 Oct
2014
25 Oct
'14
12:01 p.m.
I grew up in New Mexico too Lesley, and agree feel for what you are talking
about -- everyone was sort of equally poor and have memories of DDLM
everyone participated in growing up in school :) Things are really
different out here aren't they? :)
The reason I wrote the last email has to do more with underlying faultlines
of not just gentrification (a lot has been written about this topic in the
DDM festivities in the Mission), but in transhumanist circles itself.
While I find transhumanism to be very cool, I have encountered more than my
fair share anti-black (I can point out comments on sudo-discuss in private,
but also generally common in a lot of bay area circles) and islamophobic
racism in transhumanist communities (look no farther than richard
dawkins). Once again I /want/ transhumanism to be a multiracial and
multicultural philosophy, and it deeply saddens me that these views are
prevalent. With all the writing and talk about the lack of inclusion of
hispanic communities in Silicon Valley, it's easy to to take a view of a
transhumanist DDLM as being appropriative.
I don't have good answers for any of this stuff, but I think it's worth
having a long critical conversation about it. We are, after all, inventing
the future. We don't want to drag the horrible social legacy stuff going
forward as well do we?
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 7:35 PM, Lesley Bell <zvezdalune(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Praveen, that's an excellent suggestion. Thank
you for your nuanced and
sensitive response. Would anyone on the list who identifies as Hispanic
like to help with that?
This discussion hinges on the issue of whether there is a difference
between disrespectful cultural appropriation (e.g. Native-themed all-white
frat parties) and respectful culture-inspired artistic and social
explorations. Unlike Sonja, most of my lived experience has been in areas
with much more Hispanic influence than the Bay Area. In New Mexico, I
didn't hear anyone voice offense at whites celebrating DDM, because we were
the minority and acknowledged as part of the community--our participation
carried no threat because Hispanics were the often-dominant majority. Also,
there were so many people of mixed ancestry, white-skinned Mexicans, and
brown skinned non-Hispanic Native peoples that there was no issue of anyone
being assumed to have "no understanding" of the holiday.
Also, I have seen the issue of race-as-culture be very much used to
oppress people of color in historically white European countries where
people of color can live in the country for 3+ generations and still not be
viewed as, for example "really French."
Anyway, for now I'll revise the flyer. Just wait ten years until we get to
transhumans vs. primate-body-identified humans. That will be an interesting
discussion.
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 6:59 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Oct 24, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Sonja Trauss
<sonja.trauss(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
--
Lesley Bell
432-266-0397
zvezdalune(a)gmail.com
<http://lesleybell.com>
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I just didn't want to seem aggressive or like
I'm trying to troll the
list
or criticize you in public.
Replying privately with an argument is in some ways more aggressive
than replying on the list. It can make people feel cornered, makes it
harder for them to call for backup, and can potentially enable
triangulation gaslighting. Please ask for explicit permission from
people before starting private email arguments.
But since you do - can you explain a thing I
always wonder about when I
read
authoritative statements about "My
Culture" -
What should I make of Hispanics that don't agree with you - Hispanics
who do
not care who celebrates their holidays, or
Hispanics who don't feel
particularly connected to their holidays? Which one of you speaks for
all
Hispanics?
Speaking from an identity position is not the same as "I speak for
everybody who shares my identity." Missing a subtle but important
distinction like that and then haranguing somebody else over it, is
the hallmark of a well-played troll. You've been warned several times
on this list for creepy racist behavior. Please end it once and for
all. Thank you.
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