18 Jul
2013
18 Jul
'13
12:20 p.m.
Thanks, this is really helpful info. Then we probably want to look into
becoming a California Non-Profit Corp then, rather than an LLC?
On 07/18/2013 11:29 AM, Rachel McConnell wrote:
I'm a founding member of both Noisebridge and Ace
Monster Toys, and have
been through the incorporation and 501(c)(3) process with both. I just
want to clarify that incorporation and federal tax exemption are two
separate designations. Incorporation, either as an LLC or a full
corporation, is something you do at the state level, so the state can
identify, tax, and regulate you. The 501(c)(3) is an IRS designation,
which gives you the ability to accept tax deductible donations. You do
have to be incorporated in order to apply for 501(c)(3) status. I don't
think an LLC is eligible as it's a for-profit type of incorporation; I
think you have to be a California Non-Profit Corporation before the IRS
will grant 501(c)(3) status, but this should be verified.
Also, once incorporated, the 501(c)(3) can be applied for immediately.
It did take both Noisebridge and Ace longer than 10 months to receive
approval. At Noisebridge it was because the IRS was apparently baffled
at the concept of a hackerspace and had a lot of follow-on questions. I
think Ace just took a while to file, but also it took over a year for
the IRS to respond. It's an annoying, tedious, and time-consuming
process but not really that hard.
Cheers,
Rachel McConnell
On 7/18/13 11:07 AM, mark burdett wrote:
I'd say talk to a lawyer about this first,
because the typical 501(c)3
is a corporation - the usual route is incorporating and then awaiting
tax exempt status for the corporation.
(On the other hand, an LLC could make sense if sudoroom wants to keep
around a non-501(c)3 entity that doesn't have all the restrictions of a
tax exempt org... I know some enterprising (literally) artists who have
created both LLCs and non-profit orgs so they can get grants and also
operate as a business....)
See also
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nonprofit-tax-exempt-status-501c3-30…
This section requires that you attach a copy of your articles of
incorporation and your bylaws
<http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/nonprofit-formation-documents-articles-incorporation-bylaws-minutes-30311.html>
to
the application form. (Most nonprofits seeking 501(c)(3) status are
corporations. If your entity is an LLC
<http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/limited-liability-company>,
unincorporated association
<http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/five-reasons-incorporate-nonprofit-association-30266.html>,
or nonprofit trust, you should seek the help of a lawyer
<http://www.nolo.com/lawyers> with experience in nonprofit tax law to
complete your Form 1023 application.)
--mark B.
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 10:50 AM, Marina Kukso <marina.kukso(a)gmail.com
<mailto:marina.kukso@gmail.com>> wrote:
thanks bill, very helpful!
what are the advantages to filing as an LLC?
also, i think that jenny recently had a call with james from the
school factory - jenny, could you possibly share some of what you
both discussed?
- marina
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 10:43 AM, William Budington
<bill(a)inputoutput.io <mailto:bill@inputoutput.io>> wrote:
Hey all,
I talked to Danny O'Brien (Noisebridge's financial functionary)
yesterday about the sudoroom legal status. I know this has
been an
ongoing discussion so I'm going to summarize the options we've
already
looked into and present the new information Danny has brought
to my
attention.
*Why do we need a legal status?*
Over the past few months we've found various challenges to our
normal
operations since we don't have a legal status. We aren't able
to sign
up for services like Stripe without having a federal tax id. In
addition, since we are formally under one person's name, he is
liable if
anything happens at sudoroom. Also, we aren't able to sign up
for most
banks -- only the Community Bank of the Bay will actually give
us a bank
account with our status as a DBA. And as we've seen, Community
Bank of
the Bay is not the most web-savvy organization, and so it's hard
for us
to actually check our balances.
*What we've looked at*
Our eventual goal has been to get 501(c)3 status for sudoroom.
This is
a status that would allow us to accept tax-deductible donations
and be
incorporated formally as a nonprofit. A lot of Hacker Spaces go
this
route, and it seems like a reasonable long-term goal. One of the
problems we've been warned of is that it takes a long time to
actually
be granted 501(c)3 status - upwards of 2 years, which can as I
understand be expedited to 10 months.
Because of this delay, we've looked into some other options --
namely
being umbrella'd under another organization's 501(c)3 status.
This
would involve 10% of our revenue going to said umbrella
organization to
cover costs of the books. I've been in contact with Danny at
Noisebridge and Jenny has been in contact with (Steve?) at the
School
Factory and discussing if this is a possibility. It is
certainly one
way to go, but as for Noisebridge they've only umbrella'd
Noisetor, and
they didn't need a separate account for that.
*What I've learned recently*
Danny mentioned that his partner is looking into nonprofit
status for a
new feminist hacker space in SF, and has investigated these
options as
well as others. In order to have a certain degree of autonomy,
it is
probably in our interests to actually not go the umbrella
route and
pursue separate legal status altogether. He also mentioned that
there's
no reason why we couldn't incorporate as an LLC or other
corporate
status before pursuing 501c3 status, and that even if it takes a
number
of years to be granted non-profit status we can transition from
an LLC
without much of a problem. There's no real disadvantage to
having LLC
status in the meantime, as I understand it. The main
advantage of
nonprofit status is tax deduction, but that is usually
superseded on
most peoples taxes by the standard deduction. The main place
where it
does make a difference is when employers do matching donations
for their
employees, then it can make a difference.
*The plan*
It makes sense to me to pursue the options that would resolve our
short-term problems without impeding the path to our long-term
goals.
It seems to me reasonable as a short-term goal to register as
an LLC
(Jenny tells me this can be done in an afternoon and with $50
with a
drive to Sacramento), and as a longer term goal actually pursuing
nonprofit, 501c3 status.
*Disclaimer*
There may be caveats to this plan and I'm not a lawyer.
Bill
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