25 Aug
2015
25 Aug
'15
1:14 p.m.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like the
people involved
were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to be, and the events
Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a Sudoroom member
a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree that scared a
bunch of people away, and was then blocked from membership and banned.
25 Aug
25 Aug
1:36 p.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
Ah - so he was already banned anyway, but was still coming in?
You know, I have a really hard time putting names to faces. It would be
extremely useful if we actually had photographs of the people that are
banned, similar to noisebridges 86 page. That way we might actually have
some hope of enforcing the bans already in place...
Patrik
On Aug 25, 2015 1:15 PM, "yar" <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar
<yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like
the people involved
were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to be, and the events
Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a Sudoroom member
a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree that scared a
bunch of people away, and was then blocked from membership and banned.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
1:41 p.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo has
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence varies
wildly, of course.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Ah - so he was already banned anyway, but was still
coming in?
You know, I have a really hard time putting names to faces. It would be
extremely useful if we actually had photographs of the people that are
banned, similar to noisebridges 86 page. That way we might actually have
some hope of enforcing the bans already in place...
Patrik
On Aug 25, 2015 1:15 PM, "yar" <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar
<yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like
the people involved
were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to be, and the events
Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a Sudoroom member
a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree that scared a
bunch of people away, and was then blocked from membership and banned.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
1:57 p.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
i think we need to work on more practical and effective ways to keep the
space free of banned persons at all times.
what can people do when a banned person repeatedly returns whenever they
feel like they can get in? there are no consequences for trying.
I know that we do not call police for these types of issues, but what
about telling people that if they return again, the police will be called
and they will not know it until a cop shows up to grab them?
Does that go against our values? If so, what is a reasonable motivator to
get people to stop returning all the time?
If the response is "we just need to keep leaning on members and volunteers
to constantly beg trespassers to leave again" i fear that we are going to
burn people out faster than we can replace them.
-jake
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, Stephen Whitmore wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo
has https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence varies wildly, of
course.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Ah - so he was already banned anyway, but was still coming in?
You know, I have a really hard time putting names to faces. It would be
extremely useful if we actually had photographs of the people that are
banned, similar to noisebridges 86 page. That way we might actually have some
hope of enforcing the bans already in place...
Patrik
On Aug 25, 2015 1:15 PM, "yar" <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like
the people
involved
were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to
be, and the
events
Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a Sudoroom
member
a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree that
scared a
bunch of people away, and was then blocked from membership and
banned.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
2:03 p.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
If the response is "we just need to keep leaning on members and volunteers
to constantly beg trespassers to leave again" i fear that we are going to
burn people out faster than we can replace them.
I think this has already happened to a large degree.
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, Stephen Whitmore wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo
has https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave.
Photograph existence
varies wildly, of
course.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Ah - so he was already banned anyway, but was still coming in?
You know, I have a really hard time putting names to faces. It
would be
extremely useful if we actually had photographs of the people that
are
banned, similar to noisebridges 86 page. That way we might actually
have some
hope of enforcing the bans already in place...
Patrik
On Aug 25, 2015 1:15 PM, "yar" <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like
the people
involved
were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to
be, and the
events
Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a
Sudoroom
member
a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree that
scared a
bunch of people away, and was then blocked from membership and
banned.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
2:19 p.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
there seems to be ambiguity about james moon's ban, to wit: i was informed
that his membership was block but that he was not ever banned. if i was
misinformed please clarify.
as to jeremy, *the senate* ;) told me he had some issues a while back
(online abusive rants?) and that his membership was questionable.
is it ok to take someone's photo if they are about to be asked to leave or
banned?
@jake, your concern for people burning out who have to deal with this stuff
is greatly appreciated.
thx yar, i will register with omni-discuss & omni-mediation so i can tx the
most appropriate lists.
~r
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Jake <jake(a)spaz.org> wrote:
i think we need to work on more practical and
effective ways to keep the
space free of banned persons at all times.
what can people do when a banned person repeatedly returns whenever they
feel like they can get in? there are no consequences for trying.
I know that we do not call police for these types of issues, but what
about telling people that if they return again, the police will be called
and they will not know it until a cop shows up to grab them?
Does that go against our values? If so, what is a reasonable motivator to
get people to stop returning all the time?
If the response is "we just need to keep leaning on members and volunteers
to constantly beg trespassers to leave again" i fear that we are going to
burn people out faster than we can replace them.
-jake
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, Stephen Whitmore wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo
> has https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence
> varies wildly, of
> course.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Ah - so he was already banned anyway, but was still coming in?
>
> You know, I have a really hard time putting names to faces. It
> would be
> extremely useful if we actually had photographs of the people that
> are
> banned, similar to noisebridges 86 page. That way we might actually
> have some
> hope of enforcing the bans already in place...
>
> Patrik
>
> On Aug 25, 2015 1:15 PM, "yar" <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like the people
> involved
> > were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to be, and the
> events
>
> Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a
> Sudoroom
> member
> a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree that
> scared a
> bunch of people away, and was then blocked from membership and
> banned.
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
>
>
2:34 p.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
These concerns (access to space, Omni membership, etc.) are ones that I
imagine will be addressed in the upcoming visioning / planning process.
It's my understanding that this process could potentially result in a more
top-down restructuring of the management of the Omni with little to no
required buy-in from the individual collectives.
I am not a part of the visioning / planning facilitation team so I don't
know too much about what's been discussed thus far but people who are
interested in what the future of the Omni looks like, organizationally,
should participate in this process.
N
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:19 PM, Robb Anonymous <sf99er(a)gmail.com> wrote:
there seems to be ambiguity about james moon's
ban, to wit: i was informed
that his membership was block but that he was not ever banned. if i was
misinformed please clarify.
as to jeremy, *the senate* ;) told me he had some issues a while back
(online abusive rants?) and that his membership was questionable.
is it ok to take someone's photo if they are about to be asked to leave or
banned?
@jake, your concern for people burning out who have to deal with this
stuff is greatly appreciated.
thx yar, i will register with omni-discuss & omni-mediation so i can tx
the most appropriate lists.
~r
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Jake <jake(a)spaz.org> wrote:
i think we need to work on more practical and
effective ways to keep the
space free of banned persons at all times.
what can people do when a banned person repeatedly returns whenever they
feel like they can get in? there are no consequences for trying.
I know that we do not call police for these types of issues, but what
about telling people that if they return again, the police will be called
and they will not know it until a cop shows up to grab them?
Does that go against our values? If so, what is a reasonable motivator
to get people to stop returning all the time?
If the response is "we just need to keep leaning on members and
volunteers to constantly beg trespassers to leave again" i fear that we are
going to burn people out faster than we can replace them.
-jake
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, Stephen Whitmore wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo
> has https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence
> varies wildly, of
> course.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Ah - so he was already banned anyway, but was still coming in?
>
> You know, I have a really hard time putting names to faces. It
> would be
> extremely useful if we actually had photographs of the people that
> are
> banned, similar to noisebridges 86 page. That way we might
> actually have some
> hope of enforcing the bans already in place...
>
> Patrik
>
> On Aug 25, 2015 1:15 PM, "yar" <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like the people
> involved
> > were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to be, and the
> events
>
> Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a
> Sudoroom
> member
> a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree that
> scared a
> bunch of people away, and was then blocked from membership
> and
> banned.
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
2:53 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] ian moon banned
Hi All:
I am concerned about posting peoples faces publicly on the Omni site. I
suggest a physical book on the premises instead. The reasons for this are
due to the slanderous nature of publicly posted bans and that most of those
who were banned are banned without due process.
I realize that the space must be policed in order to function, but I think
we should think about the rights of the banned persons because they are
people with feelings, too.
Best Regards,
Mary Ward
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:34 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
These concerns (access to space, Omni membership,
etc.) are ones that I
imagine will be addressed in the upcoming visioning / planning process.
It's my understanding that this process could potentially result in a more
top-down restructuring of the management of the Omni with little to no
required buy-in from the individual collectives.
I am not a part of the visioning / planning facilitation team so I don't
know too much about what's been discussed thus far but people who are
interested in what the future of the Omni looks like, organizationally,
should participate in this process.
N
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:19 PM, Robb Anonymous <sf99er(a)gmail.com> wrote:
there seems to be ambiguity about james
moon's ban, to wit: i was
informed that his membership was block but that he was not ever banned. if
i was misinformed please clarify.
as to jeremy, *the senate* ;) told me he had some issues a while back
(online abusive rants?) and that his membership was questionable.
is it ok to take someone's photo if they are about to be asked to leave
or banned?
@jake, your concern for people burning out who have to deal with this
stuff is greatly appreciated.
thx yar, i will register with omni-discuss & omni-mediation so i can tx
the most appropriate lists.
~r
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Jake <jake(a)spaz.org> wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
i think we need to work on more practical and
effective ways to keep the
space free of banned persons at all times.
what can people do when a banned person repeatedly returns whenever they
feel like they can get in? there are no consequences for trying.
I know that we do not call police for these types of issues, but what
about telling people that if they return again, the police will be called
and they will not know it until a cop shows up to grab them?
Does that go against our values? If so, what is a reasonable motivator
to get people to stop returning all the time?
If the response is "we just need to keep leaning on members and
volunteers to constantly beg trespassers to leave again" i fear that we are
going to burn people out faster than we can replace them.
-jake
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, Stephen Whitmore wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo
> has https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence
> varies wildly, of
> course.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Ah - so he was already banned anyway, but was still coming in?
>
> You know, I have a really hard time putting names to faces. It
> would be
> extremely useful if we actually had photographs of the people
> that are
> banned, similar to noisebridges 86 page. That way we might
> actually have some
> hope of enforcing the bans already in place...
>
> Patrik
>
> On Aug 25, 2015 1:15 PM, "yar" <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like the people
> involved
> > were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to be, and
> the
> events
>
> Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a
> Sudoroom
> member
> a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree that
> scared a
> bunch of people away, and was then blocked from membership
> and
> banned.
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
3:34 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] ian moon banned
would preventing the "Asked to Leave" page from being indexed by search
engines be sufficient?
Maintaining a book in a physical space sounds like a much harder thing
to maintain, with the result that it could be sufficiently out of date
to be of no use.
From experience it's the most recently asked to
leave folks that you
have to worry the most about, but once they realise that
they're known
to the space and that folks know that they're not welcome they generally
abate.
p
Mary Ward:
Hi All:
I am concerned about posting peoples faces publicly on the Omni site. I
suggest a physical book on the premises instead. The reasons for this are
due to the slanderous nature of publicly posted bans and that most of those
who were banned are banned without due process.
I realize that the space must be policed in order to function, but I think
we should think about the rights of the banned persons because they are
people with feelings, too.
Best Regards,
Mary Ward
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:34 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
These concerns (access to space, Omni membership,
etc.) are ones that I
imagine will be addressed in the upcoming visioning / planning process.
It's my understanding that this process could potentially result in a more
top-down restructuring of the management of the Omni with little to no
required buy-in from the individual collectives.
I am not a part of the visioning / planning facilitation team so I don't
know too much about what's been discussed thus far but people who are
interested in what the future of the Omni looks like, organizationally,
should participate in this process.
N
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:19 PM, Robb Anonymous <sf99er(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
there seems to be ambiguity about james
moon's ban, to wit: i was
informed that his membership was block but that he was not ever banned. if
i was misinformed please clarify.
as to jeremy, *the senate* ;) told me he had some issues a while back
(online abusive rants?) and that his membership was questionable.
is it ok to take someone's photo if they are about to be asked to leave
or banned?
@jake, your concern for people burning out who have to deal with this
stuff is greatly appreciated.
thx yar, i will register with omni-discuss & omni-mediation so i can tx
the most appropriate lists.
~r
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Jake <jake(a)spaz.org> wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
i think we need to work on more practical and
effective ways to keep the
space free of banned persons at all times.
what can people do when a banned person repeatedly returns whenever they
feel like they can get in? there are no consequences for trying.
I know that we do not call police for these types of issues, but what
about telling people that if they return again, the police will be called
and they will not know it until a cop shows up to grab them?
Does that go against our values? If so, what is a reasonable motivator
to get people to stop returning all the time?
If the response is "we just need to keep leaning on members and
volunteers to constantly beg trespassers to leave again" i fear that we are
going to burn people out faster than we can replace them.
-jake
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, Stephen Whitmore wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo
> has https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence
> varies wildly, of
> course.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Ah - so he was already banned anyway, but was still coming in?
>
> You know, I have a really hard time putting names to faces. It
> would be
> extremely useful if we actually had photographs of the people
> that are
> banned, similar to noisebridges 86 page. That way we might
> actually have some
> hope of enforcing the bans already in place...
>
> Patrik
>
> On Aug 25, 2015 1:15 PM, "yar" <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like the people
> involved
> > were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to be, and
> the
> events
>
> Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a
> Sudoroom
> member
> a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree that
> scared a
> bunch of people away, and was then blocked from membership
> and
> banned.
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
3:51 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] ian moon banned
wow i love this:
"Members can give out RFID tokens (or add someone's existing token like a
Clipper card) to the system granting 30 day "public hour" access to
users anonymously. The act of adding someone to the system is
deliberately quite easy, as it's intended to give folks easier access to
the space once they're known to the community. The access expires after
30 days at which point it can be renewed by another member."
what do folks think about having something like that but for the omni front
door?
it wouldn't solve all problems of course, but it may help some of our
issues.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 3:34 PM, Patrick O'Doherty <p(a)trickod.com> wrote:
would preventing the "Asked to Leave" page
from being indexed by search
engines be sufficient?
Maintaining a book in a physical space sounds like a much harder thing
to maintain, with the result that it could be sufficiently out of date
to be of no use.
From experience it's the most recently asked to leave folks that you
have to worry the most about, but once they realise that they're known
to the space and that folks know that they're not welcome they generally
abate.
p
Mary Ward:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
Hi All:
I am concerned about posting peoples faces publicly on the Omni site. I
suggest a physical book on the premises instead. The reasons for this are
due to the slanderous nature of publicly posted bans and that most of
those
who were banned are banned without due process.
I realize that the space must be policed in order to function, but I
think
we should think about the rights of the banned
persons because they are
people with feelings, too.
Best Regards,
Mary Ward
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:34 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> These concerns (access to space, Omni membership, etc.) are ones that I
> imagine will be addressed in the upcoming visioning / planning process.
>
> It's my understanding that this process could potentially result in a
more
> top-down restructuring of the management of
the Omni with little to no
> required buy-in from the individual collectives.
>
> I am not a part of the visioning / planning facilitation team so I don't
> know too much about what's been discussed thus far but people who are
> interested in what the future of the Omni looks like, organizationally,
> should participate in this process.
>
> N
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:19 PM, Robb Anonymous <sf99er(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> there seems to be ambiguity about james moon's ban, to wit: i was
>> informed that his membership was block but that he was not ever
banned.
if
>> i was misinformed please clarify.
>>
>> as to jeremy, *the senate* ;) told me he had some issues a while back
>> (online abusive rants?) and that his membership was questionable.
>>
>> is it ok to take someone's photo if they are about to be asked to leave
>> or banned?
>>
>> @jake, your concern for people burning out who have to deal with this
>> stuff is greatly appreciated.
>>
>> thx yar, i will register with omni-discuss & omni-mediation so i can tx
>> the most appropriate lists.
>> ~r
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:57 PM, Jake <jake(a)spaz.org> wrote:
>>
>>> i think we need to work on more practical and effective ways to keep
the
>>> space free of banned persons at all
times.
>>>
>>> what can people do when a banned person repeatedly returns whenever
they
>>> feel like they can get in? there are
no consequences for trying.
>>>
>>> I know that we do not call police for these types of issues, but what
>>> about telling people that if they return again, the police will be
called
>>> and they will not know it until a cop
shows up to grab them?
>>>
>>> Does that go against our values? If so, what is a reasonable
motivator
>>> to get people to stop returning all
the time?
>>>
>>> If the response is "we just need to keep leaning on members and
>>> volunteers to constantly beg trespassers to leave again" i fear that
we are
>>> going to burn people out faster than
we can replace them.
>>>
>>> -jake
>>>
>>> On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, Stephen Whitmore wrote:
>>>
>>> Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo
>>>> has https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph
existence
>>>> varies wildly, of
>>>> course.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <
patrikd(a)gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ah - so he was already banned anyway, but was still coming in?
>>>>
>>>> You know, I have a really hard time putting names to faces. It
>>>> would be
>>>> extremely useful if we actually had photographs of the people
>>>> that are
>>>> banned, similar to noisebridges 86 page. That way we might
>>>> actually have some
>>>> hope of enforcing the bans already in place...
>>>>
>>>> Patrik
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 25, 2015 1:15 PM, "yar"
<yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar <
yardenack(a)gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like the
people
>>>> involved
>>>> > were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to be, and
>>>> the
>>>> events
>>>>
>>>> Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a
>>>> Sudoroom
>>>> member
>>>> a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree
that
>>>> scared a
>>>> bunch of people away, and was then blocked from
membership
>> and
>> banned.
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
26 Aug
26 Aug
1:07 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] ian moon banned
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:34 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
These concerns (access to space, Omni membership,
etc.) are ones that I
imagine will be addressed in the upcoming visioning / planning process.
It's my understanding that this process could potentially result in a more
top-down restructuring of the management of the Omni with little to no
required buy-in from the individual collectives.
Well I realize this is going to completely change the subject of this
thread but: That sounds like an amazingly terrible idea. Hopefully you are
misunderstanding.
--
marc/juul
8:41 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] ian moon banned
> Well I realize this is going to completely change
the subject of this
thread but: That sounds like an amazingly terrible idea.
> Hopefully you are misunderstanding.
I hope so, as well!!
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 1:07 AM, Marc Juul <juul(a)labitat.dk> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:34 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
These concerns (access to space, Omni membership,
etc.) are ones that I
imagine will be addressed in the upcoming visioning / planning process.
It's my understanding that this process could potentially result in a
more top-down restructuring of the management of the Omni with little to no
required buy-in from the individual collectives.
Well I realize this is going to completely change the subject of this
thread but: That sounds like an amazingly terrible idea. Hopefully you are
misunderstanding.
--
marc/juul
25 Aug
25 Aug
2:44 p.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
at the risk of this sounding preachy (it's 100% not intended as such,
but it's hard to convey tone / emotion in text) one of the biggest
contributors in helping pull noisebridge back together was implementing
access control coupled with using the 86 page to effectively document
those who were asked to leave the space.
I realise given the physical layout of both the OMNI and sudo in
particular that any amount of physical access control might be a lot
more difficult (multiple entrances to both the OMNI and sudoroom, and
all the various routes between the rooms in the OMNI) but maybe it's
worth exploring?
a really neat side effect of access control is that all new visitors to
the space interact with someone on arrival, with the cultural
expectation on their host giving them a tour and explaining everything
about the space and its ethos.
lurking in #sudoroom it seems that there is some sort of card system at
the moment? sudobot pipes up occasionally about folks being swiped into
the building. I haven't been to the OMNI since this was put in place,
but is this a card swipe system at the main front entrance?
</$0.02>
p
Jake:
i think we need to work on more practical and
effective ways to keep the
space free of banned persons at all times.
what can people do when a banned person repeatedly returns whenever they
feel like they can get in? there are no consequences for trying.
I know that we do not call police for these types of issues, but what
about telling people that if they return again, the police will be
called and they will not know it until a cop shows up to grab them?
Does that go against our values? If so, what is a reasonable motivator
to get people to stop returning all the time?
If the response is "we just need to keep leaning on members and
volunteers to constantly beg trespassers to leave again" i fear that we
are going to burn people out faster than we can replace them.
-jake
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, Stephen Whitmore wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but
Omni/sudo
has https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence
varies wildly, of
course.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer
<patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Ah - so he was already banned anyway, but was still coming in?
You know, I have a really hard time putting names to faces. It
would be
extremely useful if we actually had photographs of the people
that are
banned, similar to noisebridges 86 page. That way we might
actually have some
hope of enforcing the bans already in place...
Patrik
On Aug 25, 2015 1:15 PM, "yar" <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like
the people
involved
were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to
be, and the
events
Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a
Sudoroom
member
a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree that
scared a
bunch of people away, and was then blocked from membership
and
banned.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
2:54 p.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
What did/does Noisebridge's access control look like, that made it so
effective? I know nil on the subject, so I ask for myself and anyone else
who might not know what this entails.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Patrick O'Doherty <p(a)trickod.com> wrote:
at the risk of this sounding preachy (it's 100%
not intended as such,
but it's hard to convey tone / emotion in text) one of the biggest
contributors in helping pull noisebridge back together was implementing
access control coupled with using the 86 page to effectively document
those who were asked to leave the space.
I realise given the physical layout of both the OMNI and sudo in
particular that any amount of physical access control might be a lot
more difficult (multiple entrances to both the OMNI and sudoroom, and
all the various routes between the rooms in the OMNI) but maybe it's
worth exploring?
a really neat side effect of access control is that all new visitors to
the space interact with someone on arrival, with the cultural
expectation on their host giving them a tour and explaining everything
about the space and its ethos.
lurking in #sudoroom it seems that there is some sort of card system at
the moment? sudobot pipes up occasionally about folks being swiped into
the building. I haven't been to the OMNI since this was put in place,
but is this a card swipe system at the main front entrance?
</$0.02>
p
Jake:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
i think we need to work on more practical and
effective ways to keep the
space free of banned persons at all times.
what can people do when a banned person repeatedly returns whenever they
feel like they can get in? there are no consequences for trying.
I know that we do not call police for these types of issues, but what
about telling people that if they return again, the police will be
called and they will not know it until a cop shows up to grab them?
Does that go against our values? If so, what is a reasonable motivator
to get people to stop returning all the time?
If the response is "we just need to keep leaning on members and
volunteers to constantly beg trespassers to leave again" i fear that we
are going to burn people out faster than we can replace them.
-jake
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, Stephen Whitmore wrote:
> Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo
> has https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence
> varies wildly, of
> course.
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer
> <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ah - so he was already banned anyway, but was still coming in?
>
> You know, I have a really hard time putting names to faces. It
> would be
> extremely useful if we actually had photographs of the people
> that are
> banned, similar to noisebridges 86 page. That way we might
> actually have some
> hope of enforcing the bans already in place...
>
> Patrik
>
> On Aug 25, 2015 1:15 PM, "yar" <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like the people
> involved
> > were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to be, and
the
events
Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a
Sudoroom
member
a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree that
scared a
bunch of people away, and was then blocked from membership
and
banned.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
3:12 p.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
we made a couple of changes that have all worked together.
firstly we stopped keeping the upper door (noisebridge is on 3rd floor
of a building with an effectively public entrance) closed instead of
jammed open. It cannot be opened without a key or RFID token from the
outside, but can be done so from the inside. There's a doorbell posted
at both the bottom gate and top door which people can ring to get access
into the space.
Members and Philanthropists have 24/7 access to the space using an RFID
access system which allows the bottom gate and the top door to be opened
by presenting a token to the RFID reader.
Members can give out RFID tokens (or add someone's existing token like a
Clipper card) to the system granting 30 day "public hour" access to
users anonymously. The act of adding someone to the system is
deliberately quite easy, as it's intended to give folks easier access to
the space once they're known to the community. The access expires after
30 days at which point it can be renewed by another member.
It's also possible to have non-expiring slightly expanded hour access
for folks who give some amount of contact details (the name that they
prefer to be called an an email) so that folks don't need to continually
ask for their access to be renewed.
The RFID notes when the door opens / closes, but it *does not log the
individual comings and goings of users*. Really want to stress this
point: There's no way to tell when someone comes and goes from the logs.
These physical changes were accompanied by some cultural changes. As I
mentioned earlier, if you're welcoming someone into the space it's
considered excellent to introduce yourself, ask if it's their first time
at Noisebridge, offer to give them a tour, explain Noisebridge and the
ethos of the space etc... such that folks have an understanding of what
Noisebridge is, what goes on in the space, and the very basic what's
excellent and not so excellent.
All of the code, hardware specs, and designs are on Github @
https://github.com/hzeller/rfid-access-control.
hopefully that's a helpful description of the system we have in place at
noisebridge. it was a relatively long project, especially with helping
create the cultural expectations about introducing folks to the space
and also asking those who are unexcellent to leave.
Stephen Whitmore:
What did/does Noisebridge's access control look
like, that made it so
effective? I know nil on the subject, so I ask for myself and anyone else
who might not know what this entails.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Patrick O'Doherty <p(a)trickod.com> wrote:
at the risk of this sounding preachy (it's
100% not intended as such,
but it's hard to convey tone / emotion in text) one of the biggest
contributors in helping pull noisebridge back together was implementing
access control coupled with using the 86 page to effectively document
those who were asked to leave the space.
I realise given the physical layout of both the OMNI and sudo in
particular that any amount of physical access control might be a lot
more difficult (multiple entrances to both the OMNI and sudoroom, and
all the various routes between the rooms in the OMNI) but maybe it's
worth exploring?
a really neat side effect of access control is that all new visitors to
the space interact with someone on arrival, with the cultural
expectation on their host giving them a tour and explaining everything
about the space and its ethos.
lurking in #sudoroom it seems that there is some sort of card system at
the moment? sudobot pipes up occasionally about folks being swiped into
the building. I haven't been to the OMNI since this was put in place,
but is this a card swipe system at the main front entrance?
</$0.02>
p
Jake:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
i think we need to work on more practical and
effective ways to keep the
space free of banned persons at all times.
what can people do when a banned person repeatedly returns whenever they
feel like they can get in? there are no consequences for trying.
I know that we do not call police for these types of issues, but what
about telling people that if they return again, the police will be
called and they will not know it until a cop shows up to grab them?
Does that go against our values? If so, what is a reasonable motivator
to get people to stop returning all the time?
If the response is "we just need to keep leaning on members and
volunteers to constantly beg trespassers to leave again" i fear that we
are going to burn people out faster than we can replace them.
-jake
On Tue, 25 Aug 2015, Stephen Whitmore wrote:
> Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo
> has https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence
> varies wildly, of
> course.
>
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer
> <patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ah - so he was already banned anyway, but was still coming in?
>
> You know, I have a really hard time putting names to faces. It
> would be
> extremely useful if we actually had photographs of the people
> that are
> banned, similar to noisebridges 86 page. That way we might
> actually have some
> hope of enforcing the bans already in place...
>
> Patrik
>
> On Aug 25, 2015 1:15 PM, "yar" <yardenack(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:10 PM, yar <yardenack(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > hackerspace inside the Omni, and it sounds like the people
> involved
> > were not Sudoroom members nor did they claim to be, and
the
events
Actually I stand corrected, James Moon applied to be a
Sudoroom
member
a couple months ago, before he went on a yelling spree that
scared a
bunch of people away, and was then blocked from membership
and
banned.
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
5:36 p.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Stephen Whitmore <
stephen.whitmore(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo has
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence varies
wildly, of course.
And neither Ian Moon nor James Moon are on there at the moment...
Patrik
5:47 p.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
This page is something anyone/everyone can edit. If you have the info,
please add it.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Stephen Whitmore
<
stephen.whitmore(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo
has
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence varies
wildly, of course.
And neither Ian Moon nor James Moon are on there at the moment...
Patrik
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
9:14 p.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
still no confirmation on james moon ban?
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 12:47 AM, Julio Rios <julio.rios(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This page is something anyone/everyone can edit. If
you have the info,
please add it.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Stephen Whitmore
<
stephen.whitmore(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo
has
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence
varies wildly, of course.
And neither Ian Moon nor James Moon are on there at the moment...
Patrik
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
26 Aug
26 Aug
12:43 a.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
Sounds like an airtight case to me - we do not tolerate violence and I
trust your word. Thanks for looking out, Robb. Moon, please fuck off.
Thanks!
On Aug 26, 2015 12:15 AM, "Robb Anonymous" <sf99er(a)gmail.com> wrote:
still no confirmation on james moon ban?
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 12:47 AM, Julio Rios <julio.rios(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This page is something anyone/everyone can edit.
If you have the info,
please add it.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Stephen Whitmore
<
stephen.whitmore(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo
has
https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence
varies wildly, of course.
And neither Ian Moon nor James Moon are on there at the moment...
Patrik
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
12:50 a.m.
New subject: ian moon banned
I think there are two Moons, but only one of them, Ian Moon, was observed
threatening someone else (James Moon) with a cane. James Moon was denied
sudoroom membership, but it's unclear that he's done anything to warrant a
ban.
Is someone going to contact Ian Moon to let him know there is an Omni
conflict resolution process to initiate?
I'd prefer not to be that person right now.
Thanks,
Julio
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Jenny Ryan <tunabananas(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like an airtight case to me - we do not
tolerate violence and I
trust your word. Thanks for looking out, Robb. Moon, please fuck off.
Thanks!
On Aug 26, 2015 12:15 AM, "Robb Anonymous" <sf99er(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> still no confirmation on james moon ban?
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 12:47 AM, Julio Rios <julio.rios(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> This page is something anyone/everyone can edit. If you have the info,
>> please add it.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer
<patrikd(a)gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Stephen Whitmore <
>>> stephen.whitmore(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not sure if you're aware of it, but Omni/sudo has
>>>> https://omnicommons.org/wiki/Asked_to_Leave. Photograph existence
>>>> varies wildly, of course.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And neither Ian Moon nor James Moon are on there at the moment...
>>>
>>> Patrik
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://sudoroom.org/lists/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
3173
days inactive
3174
days old
19 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
Cere Misc -
Jake -
Jenny Ryan -
Julio Rios -
Marc Juul -
Marina Kukso -
Mary Ward -
niki -
Patrick O'Doherty -
Patrik D'haeseleer -
Robb Anonymous -
Stephen Whitmore -
yar