11 Jan
2015
11 Jan
'15
10:13 a.m.
Hey all,
I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we
replace the word bottom-liner.
Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt to
replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one another
if and when we slip up?
As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a lot of
us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take a bit of
time before it collectively takes root.
It would be great if those who take particular issue with this phrase could
put forth their suggestions.
I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the real
world.
Here are some suggestions of mine:
* steward
* curator
* representative
Love,
N
11 Jan
11 Jan
10:25 a.m.
New subject: [BAPS-Organizing] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
Dear all,
About a month ago the How We Organize working group actually discussed this
request to change the term "bottom-liner" and in the below right of
attached pic you'll see some terms we came up with during our brainstorm.
with love
st
On Jan 11, 2015 10:13 AM, "niki" <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hey all,
I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we
replace the word bottom-liner.
Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt to
replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one another
if and when we slip up?
As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a lot of
us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take a bit of
time before it collectively takes root.
It would be great if those who take particular issue with this phrase
could put forth their suggestions.
I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the real
world.
Here are some suggestions of mine:
* steward
* curator
* representative
Love,
N
10:27 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
joe
On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
Hey all,
I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we replace the word
bottom-liner.
Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt to replace this
phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one another if and when we slip up?
As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a lot of us that I'm
sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take a bit of time before it
collectively takes root.
It would be great if those who take particular issue with this phrase could put forth
their suggestions.
I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the real world.
Here are some suggestions of mine:
* steward
* curator
* representative
Love,
N
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
10:33 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
I missed this issue. I always really like bottom-liner. I'm not tryna stop
progress, but what's the prob with it?
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:27 AM, joseph liesner <blue393(a)lmi.net> wrote:
overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
joe
On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
Hey all,
I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we
replace the word bottom-liner.
Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt to
replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one another
if and when we slip up?
As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a lot of
us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take a bit of
time before it collectively takes root.
It would be great if those who take particular issue with this phrase
could put forth their suggestions.
I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the real
world.
Here are some suggestions of mine:
* steward
* curator
* representative
Love,
N
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
--
•amgo•
10:38 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
"point person"?
On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
joe
On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
Hey all,
I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we
replace the word bottom-liner.
Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt
to replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one
another if and when we slip up?
As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a
lot of us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely
take a bit of time before it collectively takes root.
It would be great if those who take particular issue with this phrase
could put forth their suggestions.
I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the
real world.
Here are some suggestions of mine:
* steward
* curator
* representative
Love,
N
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org <mailto:discuss@lists.omnicommons.org>
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
10:40 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
To add to discussion: I believe one of the reason some of us began to
discuss changing "bottom-liner" is because it promotes arresting a single
person with all of the responsibility, rather than collectivizing
responsibility toward building community.
On Jan 11, 2015 10:38 AM, "lee worden" <wonder(a)riseup.net> wrote:
"point person"?
On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
joe
On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
Hey all,
I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we
replace the word bottom-liner.
Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt to
replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one another
if and when we slip up?
As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a lot
of us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take a bit
of time before it collectively takes root.
It would be great if those who take particular issue with this phrase
could put forth their suggestions.
I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the real
world.
Here are some suggestions of mine:
* steward
* curator
* representative
Love,
N
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing
listsudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.orghttps://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
1:43 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Stephen Novotny <novotny.stephen(a)gmail.com
wrote:
To add to discussion: I believe one of the reason some
of us began to
discuss changing "bottom-liner" is because it promotes arresting a single
person with all of the responsibility, rather than collectivizing
responsibility toward building community.
Meh - I think "point person" conveys exactly the same meaning to me. I
had
never heard of the term "bottom-liner" before, so to my ear this just seems
like a pointless exercise in semantics.
In the end, the mechanism is still that we appoint an individual to carry
somewhat more responsibility for an event, because otherwise things will
inevitably fall through the cracks. You can call them a bottom-liner, a
facilitator, a coordinator, a point person or whatever you want. Does it
suggest an unequal division of labor? Sure it does, but that just reflects
reality. We can strive for a more equal distribution, but in my opinion
just changing the name is not going to change the fact that some people put
in more effort than others, or that in some cases it is actually more
efficient for one person to take charge of certain details.
What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would smell
as sweet...
Patrik
> On Jan 11, 2015 10:38 AM, "lee worden" <wonder(a)riseup.net wrote:
>
>> "point person"?
>>
>> On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
>>
>> overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
>> joe
>> On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
>>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we
>> replace the word bottom-liner.
>>
>> Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt to
>> replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one another
>> if and when we slip up?
>>
>> As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a lot
>> of us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take
a bit
>> of time before it collectively takes root.
>>
>> It would be great if those who take particular issue with this phrase
>> could put forth their suggestions.
>>
>> I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the real
>> world.
>>
>> Here are some suggestions of mine:
>>
>> * steward
>> * curator
>> * representative
>>
>> Love,
>>
>> N
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing
listsudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.orghttps://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
1:49 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
I actually think "point person" suggests a *more* unequal division of labor
than "bottom-liner."
A bottom-liner, in my mind, means that even *if* no one else shows up to
help (which can happen!), nothing's going to "leak." They've covered
the
bottom line. But in and of itself, that doesn't imply that no one else
can't be involved.
A point person, on the other hand, is the person you have to go to in order
to get involved at all. How do I get involved? *points at person*
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Stephen Novotny
<
novotny.stephen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
To add to discussion: I believe one of the reason
some of us began to
discuss changing "bottom-liner" is because it promotes arresting a single
person with all of the responsibility, rather than collectivizing
responsibility toward building community.
Meh - I think "point person" conveys exactly the same meaning to me. I
had
never heard of the term "bottom-liner" before, so to my ear this just seems
like a pointless exercise in semantics.
In the end, the mechanism is still that we appoint an individual to carry
somewhat more responsibility for an event, because otherwise things will
inevitably fall through the cracks. You can call them a bottom-liner, a
facilitator, a coordinator, a point person or whatever you want. Does it
suggest an unequal division of labor? Sure it does, but that just reflects
reality. We can strive for a more equal distribution, but in my opinion
just changing the name is not going to change the fact that some people put
in more effort than others, or that in some cases it is actually more
efficient for one person to take charge of certain details.
What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would smell
as sweet...
Patrik
On Jan 11, 2015 10:38 AM, "lee worden"
<wonder(a)riseup.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
"point person"?
On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
joe
On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
Hey all,
I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we
replace the word bottom-liner.
Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt to
replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one another
if and when we slip up?
As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a lot
of us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take a bit
of time before it collectively takes root.
It would be great if those who take particular issue with this phrase
could put forth their suggestions.
I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the real
world.
Here are some suggestions of mine:
* steward
* curator
* representative
Love,
N
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing
listsudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.orghttps://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
3 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
On Jan 11, 2015 1:49 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
A bottom-liner, in my mind, means that even if no one
else shows up to
help (which can happen!), nothing's going to "leak."
Which oddly coincides with what came to my mind the first time I heard the
term "bottom-liner" in this context: the liner at the bottom of a diaper.
:-D
Patrik
5:26 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
On Jan 11, 2015 1:49 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
A point person, on the other hand, is the person you
have to go to in
order to get involved at all. How do I get involved? *points at
person*
Actually, I think "point man" presumably comes from military terminology:
it's the soldier who is "on point" in a patrol, and who gets to scout out
the best route, but who also gets shot at first if things go wrong.
Perhaps not the best imagery we want to adopt...
Patrik
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Stephen Novotny <
novotny.stephen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> To add to discussion: I believe one of the reason some of us began to
discuss changing "bottom-liner" is because it promotes arresting a single
person with all of the responsibility, rather than collectivizing
responsibility toward building community.
>
> Meh - I think "point person" conveys exactly the same meaning to me. I
had never heard of the term "bottom-liner" before, so to my ear this just
seems like a pointless exercise in semantics.
>
> In the end, the mechanism is still that we appoint an individual to
carry
somewhat more responsibility for an event, because otherwise things
will inevitably fall through the cracks. You can call them a bottom-liner,
a facilitator, a coordinator, a point person or whatever you want. Does it
suggest an unequal division of labor? Sure it does, but that just reflects
reality. We can strive for a more equal distribution, but in my opinion
just changing the name is not going to change the fact that some people put
in more effort than others, or that in some cases it is actually more
efficient for one person to take charge of certain details.
>
> What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would
smell
as sweet...
>
> Patrik
>
>
>
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2015 10:38 AM, "lee worden" <wonder(a)riseup.net>
wrote:
>>>
>>> "point person"?
>>>
>>> On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
>>>> joe
>>>> On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we
replace the word bottom-liner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt
to replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one
another if and when we slip up?
>>>>>
>>>>> As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a
lot of us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take
a
bit of time before it collectively takes root.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be great if those who take particular issue with this
phrase could put forth their suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the
real world.
>>
>> Here are some suggestions of mine:
>>
>> * steward
>> * curator
>> * representative
>>
>> Love,
>>
>> N
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
5:41 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
Actually, if the opposing forces are reasonably well-trained, the point man
is usually not the first guy to get shot.
A well-trained opponent will typically let him (or her, perhaps, nowadays)
get safely past so they have a much higher probability of killing all who
follow.
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 11, 2015 1:49 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
--
Tony Barreca
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybarreca
Skype: tonybarreca
Twitter: tbarreca
Mobile: (510) 710-5864
A point person, on the other hand, is the person
you have to go to in
order to get involved at all. How do I get involved? *points
at person*
Actually, I think "point man" presumably comes from military terminology:
it's the soldier who is "on point" in a patrol, and who gets to scout out
the best route, but who also gets shot at first if things go wrong.
Perhaps not the best imagery we want to adopt...
Patrik
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Stephen Novotny <
novotny.stephen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> To add to discussion: I believe one of the reason some of us began to
discuss changing "bottom-liner" is because it promotes arresting a single
person with all of the responsibility, rather than collectivizing
responsibility toward building community.
>
> Meh - I think "point person" conveys exactly the same meaning to me. I
had never heard of the term "bottom-liner" before, so to my ear this
just
seems like a pointless exercise in semantics.
>
> In the end, the mechanism is still that we appoint an individual to
carry
somewhat more responsibility for an event, because otherwise things
will inevitably fall through the cracks. You can call them a bottom-liner,
a facilitator, a coordinator, a point person or whatever you want. Does it
suggest an unequal division of labor? Sure it does, but that just reflects
reality. We can strive for a more equal distribution, but in my opinion
just changing the name is not going to change the fact that some people put
in more effort than others, or that in some cases it is actually more
efficient for one person to take charge of certain details.
>
> What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would
smell
as sweet...
>
> Patrik
>
>
>
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2015 10:38 AM, "lee worden" <wonder(a)riseup.net>
wrote:
>>>
>>> "point person"?
>>>
>>> On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
>>>> joe
>>>> On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that
we replace the word bottom-liner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt
to replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one
another if and when we slip up?
>>>>>
>>>>> As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a
lot of us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely
take a
bit of time before it collectively takes root.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be great if those who take particular issue with this
phrase could put forth their suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the
real world.
>>>
>>> Here are some suggestions of mine:
>>>
>>> * steward
>>> * curator
>>> * representative
>>>
>>> Love,
>>>
>>> N
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
6:09 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
This is not relevant to this particular conversation, IMHO. Not to mention
that to even jokingly suggest "point-man" as a potential candidate exhibits
a real insensitivity / obtuseness to some of the very issues that were
raised in requesting an alternative to "bottom-liner" and exhibits behavior
associated with systems that we, as a community, are working to confront
and dismantle.
I realize that for some people, language "doesn't matter" but, regardless
of whether it's important to you or not to care about such things, I'd like
to ask you to please be mindful of the fact that for some people, certain
words choices represent oppressive systems.
So perhaps, if I could make a gentle suggestion, take a moment to consider
those that may be on this mailing list and in this community and who might
not enjoy the same level of privilege that you do. Using certain language
or dismissing the importance of caring about language can be construed as
oppressive, insensitive and can be incredibly hurtful and alienating.
Niki
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 5:41 PM, Tony Barreca <tony.barreca(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Actually, if the opposing forces are reasonably
well-trained, the point
man is usually not the first guy to get shot.
A well-trained opponent will typically let him (or her, perhaps, nowadays)
get safely past so they have a much higher probability of killing all who
follow.
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 11, 2015 1:49 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
--
Tony Barreca
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybarreca
Skype: tonybarreca
Twitter: tbarreca
Mobile: (510) 710-5864
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
A point person, on the other hand, is the person
you have to go to in
order to get involved at all. How do I get involved? *points
at person*
Actually, I think "point man" presumably comes from military
terminology: it's the soldier who is "on point" in a patrol, and who gets
to scout out the best route, but who also gets shot at first if things go
wrong. Perhaps not the best imagery we want to adopt...
Patrik
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Stephen Novotny <
novotny.stephen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> To add to discussion: I believe one of the reason some of us began to
discuss changing "bottom-liner" is because it promotes arresting a single
person with all of the responsibility, rather than collectivizing
responsibility toward building community.
>
> Meh - I think "point person" conveys exactly the same meaning to me. I
had never heard of the term "bottom-liner" before, so to my ear this
just
seems like a pointless exercise in semantics.
>
> In the end, the mechanism is still that we appoint an individual to
carry
somewhat more responsibility for an event, because otherwise things
will inevitably fall through the cracks. You can call them a bottom-liner,
a facilitator, a coordinator, a point person or whatever you want. Does it
suggest an unequal division of labor? Sure it does, but that just reflects
reality. We can strive for a more equal distribution, but in my opinion
just changing the name is not going to change the fact that some people put
in more effort than others, or that in some cases it is actually more
efficient for one person to take charge of certain details.
>
> What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would
smell
as sweet...
>
> Patrik
>
>
>
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2015 10:38 AM, "lee worden" <wonder(a)riseup.net>
wrote:
>>>
>>> "point person"?
>>>
>>> On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
>>>> joe
>>>> On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that
we replace the word bottom-liner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to
attempt to replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct
one another if and when we slip up?
>>>>>
>>>>> As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a
lot of us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely
take a
bit of time before it collectively takes root.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be great if those who take particular issue with this
phrase could put forth their suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the
real world.
>>>>
>>>> Here are some suggestions of mine:
>>>>
>>>> * steward
>>>> * curator
>>>> * representative
>>>>
>>>> Love,
>>>>
>>>> N
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list
>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
7:05 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
Sorry, but I most definitely did not suggest "point-man" as a potential
candidate! I just wanted to point out that the use of the word "point
person" harks back to military jargon, and that we might want to avoid it
for that reason alone.
And yes, I do care about language, which is why I'd much rather use a
made-up word like "bottom liner" than a military term.
Anyway - if "bottom liner" seems to have the wrong connotations for some
people, how about "coordinator"? Rather like using the term
"facilitator"
for discussions: it's not the person who leads or is in charge of an event
/ a discussion, but rather the person who enables others to participate and
keeps an eye out to make sure nothing falls between the cracks.
Patrik
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 6:09 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This is not relevant to this particular conversation,
IMHO. Not to
mention that to even jokingly suggest "point-man" as a potential candidate
exhibits a real insensitivity / obtuseness to some of the very issues that
were raised in requesting an alternative to "bottom-liner" and exhibits
behavior associated with systems that we, as a community, are working to
confront and dismantle.
I realize that for some people, language "doesn't matter" but, regardless
of whether it's important to you or not to care about such things, I'd like
to ask you to please be mindful of the fact that for some people, certain
words choices represent oppressive systems.
So perhaps, if I could make a gentle suggestion, take a moment to consider
those that may be on this mailing list and in this community and who might
not enjoy the same level of privilege that you do. Using certain language
or dismissing the importance of caring about language can be construed as
oppressive, insensitive and can be incredibly hurtful and alienating.
Niki
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 5:41 PM, Tony Barreca <tony.barreca(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Actually, if the opposing forces are reasonably
well-trained, the point
man is usually not the first guy to get shot.
A well-trained opponent will typically let him (or her, perhaps,
nowadays) get safely past so they have a much higher probability of killing
all who follow.
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 11, 2015 1:49 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
Tony Barreca
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybarreca
Skype: tonybarreca
Twitter: tbarreca
Mobile: (510) 710-5864
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
A point person, on the other hand, is the person
you have to go to in
order to get involved at all. How do I get involved? *points
at person*
Actually, I think "point man" presumably comes from military
terminology: it's the soldier who is "on point" in a patrol, and who gets
to scout out the best route, but who also gets shot at first if things go
wrong. Perhaps not the best imagery we want to adopt...
Patrik
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Stephen Novotny <
novotny.stephen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> To add to discussion: I believe one of the reason some of us began
to
discuss changing "bottom-liner" is because it promotes arresting a
single person with all of the responsibility, rather than collectivizing
responsibility toward building community.
>
> Meh - I think "point person" conveys exactly the same meaning to me.
I had never heard of the term "bottom-liner" before, so to my ear this just
seems like a pointless exercise in semantics.
>
> In the end, the mechanism is still that we appoint an individual to
carry
somewhat more responsibility for an event, because otherwise things
will inevitably fall through the cracks. You can call them a bottom-liner,
a facilitator, a coordinator, a point person or whatever you want. Does it
suggest an unequal division of labor? Sure it does, but that just reflects
reality. We can strive for a more equal distribution, but in my opinion
just changing the name is not going to change the fact that some people put
in more effort than others, or that in some cases it is actually more
efficient for one person to take charge of certain details.
>
> What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would
smell
as sweet...
>
> Patrik
>
>
>
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2015 10:38 AM, "lee worden" <wonder(a)riseup.net>
wrote:
>>>
>>> "point person"?
>>>
>>> On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
>>>> joe
>>>> On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that
we replace the word bottom-liner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to
attempt to replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct
one another if and when we slip up?
>>>>>
>>>>> As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for
a lot of us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely
take
a bit of time before it collectively takes root.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be great if those who take particular issue with this
phrase could put forth their suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the
real world.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are some suggestions of mine:
>>>>>
>>>>> * steward
>>>>> * curator
>>>>> * representative
>>>>>
>>>>> Love,
>>>>>
>>>>> N
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
10:17 p.m.
New subject: [BAPS-Organizing] Re: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
I'm not sure if I'm seeing subsequent emails following Niki's given access
or lack thereof to the other lists, so forgive any redundancy. I concur
with Niki that the question of naming is not nothing, in part because of
the ways that names, obviously, carry unconscious connotations that can
shape our approaches to the things they name. I don't really have a problem
with the term bottom-liner, as to me it hasn't implied an anti-collective
approach, but as I said, we're not just talking about the conscious things
a name brings up.
Concerns about the name, though, seem to be one manifestation of larger
concerns about the nature of event/program support at the Omni. I know on
the BAPS side of things there's been on-and-off problems with finding
enough people to bottom-line classes, and that often the duties of
bottom-lining have unevenly fallen on a few key people, so that even if the
name bottom-liner hasn't struck me as a problem, the organizing practice
has at times felt built on shaky ground. What in theory is a non-coercive,
equal, from-each-to-each kind of horizontalism becomes not so much that in
practice, with responsibility (and power) concentrating/burdening a small
number of folks. (Obviously, I know I don't have to explain this dynamic to
any of you.)
So I feel like lurking under concerns about the name are questions of
organization, of how to ensure a horizontalism not just in name but also in
reality, and so it seems like any discussion of renaming the bottom-liner
task is also going to have to take a real look at our practices as
collectives. Maybe I'm getting a little far afield here, but it seems like
pulling on the thread of what to call what we're calling a bottom-liner
pulls a lot of other issues with it.
MN
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 6:09 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This is not relevant to this particular conversation,
IMHO. Not to
mention that to even jokingly suggest "point-man" as a potential candidate
exhibits a real insensitivity / obtuseness to some of the very issues that
were raised in requesting an alternative to "bottom-liner" and exhibits
behavior associated with systems that we, as a community, are working to
confront and dismantle.
I realize that for some people, language "doesn't matter" but, regardless
of whether it's important to you or not to care about such things, I'd like
to ask you to please be mindful of the fact that for some people, certain
words choices represent oppressive systems.
So perhaps, if I could make a gentle suggestion, take a moment to consider
those that may be on this mailing list and in this community and who might
not enjoy the same level of privilege that you do. Using certain language
or dismissing the importance of caring about language can be construed as
oppressive, insensitive and can be incredibly hurtful and alienating.
Niki
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 5:41 PM, Tony Barreca <tony.barreca(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Actually, if the opposing forces are reasonably
well-trained, the point
man is usually not the first guy to get shot.
A well-trained opponent will typically let him (or her, perhaps,
nowadays) get safely past so they have a much higher probability of killing
all who follow.
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 11, 2015 1:49 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
Tony Barreca
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybarreca
Skype: tonybarreca
Twitter: tbarreca
Mobile: (510) 710-5864
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
A point person, on the other hand, is the person
you have to go to in
order to get involved at all. How do I get involved? *points
at person*
Actually, I think "point man" presumably comes from military
terminology: it's the soldier who is "on point" in a patrol, and who gets
to scout out the best route, but who also gets shot at first if things go
wrong. Perhaps not the best imagery we want to adopt...
Patrik
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Stephen Novotny <
novotny.stephen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> To add to discussion: I believe one of the reason some of us began
to
discuss changing "bottom-liner" is because it promotes arresting a
single person with all of the responsibility, rather than collectivizing
responsibility toward building community.
>
> Meh - I think "point person" conveys exactly the same meaning to me.
I had never heard of the term "bottom-liner" before, so to my ear this just
seems like a pointless exercise in semantics.
>
> In the end, the mechanism is still that we appoint an individual to
carry
somewhat more responsibility for an event, because otherwise things
will inevitably fall through the cracks. You can call them a bottom-liner,
a facilitator, a coordinator, a point person or whatever you want. Does it
suggest an unequal division of labor? Sure it does, but that just reflects
reality. We can strive for a more equal distribution, but in my opinion
just changing the name is not going to change the fact that some people put
in more effort than others, or that in some cases it is actually more
efficient for one person to take charge of certain details.
>
> What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would
smell
as sweet...
>
> Patrik
>
>
>
>>
>> On Jan 11, 2015 10:38 AM, "lee worden" <wonder(a)riseup.net>
wrote:
>>>
>>> "point person"?
>>>
>>> On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
>>>>
>>>> overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
>>>> joe
>>>> On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that
we replace the word bottom-liner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to
attempt to replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct
one another if and when we slip up?
>>>>>
>>>>> As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for
a lot of us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely
take
a bit of time before it collectively takes root.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be great if those who take particular issue with this
phrase could put forth their suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the
real world.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are some suggestions of mine:
>>>>>
>>>>> * steward
>>>>> * curator
>>>>> * representative
>>>>>
>>>>> Love,
>>>>>
>>>>> N
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> discuss mailing list
>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
12 Jan
12 Jan
9:19 a.m.
New subject: [BAPS-Organizing] Re: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
Michael,
Are you *sure* you don't wanna be on the Omni discuss list? Your insights
are so welcome - I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on all of the
various issues that arise. That said, I'll take whatever I can get from
you!
Thank you SO MUCH for these thoughts.
I agree with you %100 percent (and think this touches on something that
Scott was talking about in the CDC meeting yesterday).
We have set up a basic organizational structure in order to just cover
basic needs but we really need to be reexamining these systems. I believe a
group began to talk about having some kind of visioning / strategic
planning session at the Gather last night for this very purpose. Matt S
mentioned trying to schedule a more formal discussion soon.
Love y'all.
N
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:17 PM, Michael Nicoloff <
michael.nicoloff(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I'm not sure if I'm seeing subsequent emails
following Niki's given access
or lack thereof to the other lists, so forgive any redundancy. I concur
with Niki that the question of naming is not nothing, in part because of
the ways that names, obviously, carry unconscious connotations that can
shape our approaches to the things they name. I don't really have a problem
with the term bottom-liner, as to me it hasn't implied an anti-collective
approach, but as I said, we're not just talking about the conscious things
a name brings up.
Concerns about the name, though, seem to be one manifestation of larger
concerns about the nature of event/program support at the Omni. I know on
the BAPS side of things there's been on-and-off problems with finding
enough people to bottom-line classes, and that often the duties of
bottom-lining have unevenly fallen on a few key people, so that even if the
name bottom-liner hasn't struck me as a problem, the organizing practice
has at times felt built on shaky ground. What in theory is a non-coercive,
equal, from-each-to-each kind of horizontalism becomes not so much that in
practice, with responsibility (and power) concentrating/burdening a small
number of folks. (Obviously, I know I don't have to explain this dynamic to
any of you.)
So I feel like lurking under concerns about the name are questions of
organization, of how to ensure a horizontalism not just in name but also in
reality, and so it seems like any discussion of renaming the bottom-liner
task is also going to have to take a real look at our practices as
collectives. Maybe I'm getting a little far afield here, but it seems like
pulling on the thread of what to call what we're calling a bottom-liner
pulls a lot of other issues with it.
MN
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 6:09 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
This is not relevant to this particular
conversation, IMHO. Not to
mention that to even jokingly suggest "point-man" as a potential candidate
exhibits a real insensitivity / obtuseness to some of the very issues that
were raised in requesting an alternative to "bottom-liner" and exhibits
behavior associated with systems that we, as a community, are working to
confront and dismantle.
I realize that for some people, language "doesn't matter" but, regardless
of whether it's important to you or not to care about such things, I'd like
to ask you to please be mindful of the fact that for some people, certain
words choices represent oppressive systems.
So perhaps, if I could make a gentle suggestion, take a moment to
consider those that may be on this mailing list and in this community and
who might not enjoy the same level of privilege that you do. Using certain
language or dismissing the importance of caring about language can be
construed as oppressive, insensitive and can be incredibly hurtful and
alienating.
Niki
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 5:41 PM, Tony Barreca <tony.barreca(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Actually, if the opposing forces are reasonably
well-trained, the point
man is usually not the first guy to get shot.
A well-trained opponent will typically let him (or her, perhaps,
nowadays) get safely past so they have a much higher probability of killing
all who follow.
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 5:26 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
On Jan 11, 2015 1:49 PM, "Ryan" <yandoryn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> A point person, on the other hand, is the person you have to go to in
order to get involved at all. How do I get involved? *points at person*
Actually, I think "point man" presumably comes from military
terminology: it's the soldier who is "on point" in a patrol, and who gets
to scout out the best route, but who also gets shot at first if things go
wrong. Perhaps not the best imagery we want to adopt...
Patrik
>
> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <
patrikd(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:40 AM, Stephen Novotny <
novotny.stephen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> To add to discussion: I believe one of the reason some of us began
to discuss changing "bottom-liner" is because it promotes arresting a
single person with all of the responsibility, rather than collectivizing
responsibility toward building community.
>>
>> Meh - I think "point person" conveys exactly the same meaning to me.
I had never heard of the term "bottom-liner" before, so to my ear this just
seems like a pointless exercise in semantics.
>>
>> In the end, the mechanism is still that we appoint an individual to
carry somewhat more responsibility for an event, because otherwise things
will inevitably fall through the cracks. You can call them a bottom-liner,
a facilitator, a coordinator, a point person or whatever you want. Does it
suggest an unequal division of labor? Sure it does, but that just reflects
reality. We can strive for a more equal distribution, but in my opinion
just changing the name is not going to change the fact that some people put
in more effort than others, or that in some cases it is actually more
efficient for one person to take charge of certain details.
>>
>> What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would
smell as sweet...
>>
>> Patrik
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 11, 2015 10:38 AM, "lee worden" <wonder(a)riseup.net>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "point person"?
>>>>
>>>> On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
>>>>> joe
>>>>> On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to honor the request from some Omni community members
that we replace the word bottom-liner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to
attempt to replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct
one another if and when we slip up?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift
for
a lot of us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take
a bit of time before it collectively takes root.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be great if those who take particular issue with this
phrase could put forth their suggestions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in
the real world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here are some suggestions of mine:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * steward
>>>>>> * curator
>>>>>> * representative
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Love,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> N
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> discuss mailing list
>>>> discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
>>>> https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>
>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
--
Tony Barreca
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/tonybarreca
Skype: tonybarreca
Twitter: tbarreca
Mobile: (510) 710-5864
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
11:06 p.m.
New subject: [BAPS-Organizing] Re: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
On 01/11/2015 10:17 PM, Michael Nicoloff wrote:
I know on the BAPS side of things there's been
on-and-off problems
with finding enough people to bottom-line classes, and that often the
duties of bottom-lining have unevenly fallen on a few key people, so
that even if the name bottom-liner hasn't struck me as a problem, the
organizing practice has at times felt built on shaky ground. What in
theory is a non-coercive, equal, from-each-to-each kind of
horizontalism becomes not so much that in practice, with
responsibility (and power) concentrating/burdening a small number of
folks.
-- This always happens. Democracy is a great ideal, & it wd be even
greater if our fundamental equality as human beans translated into
equality of work output. It doesn't for a lot of reasons. This is the
toughest part of the whole process.
The only way to reduce this problem is for more people to step up.
This is very tough, because pretty much all of us are overextended
anyway, but it's still crucial. We all grow up in a society where just
about everything happens because someone gets paid to bottomline it. If
we want to create an alternative we need to deprogram ourselves &
realize that there ain't no-one else to do it. Many of us are also
programmed to feel that we aren't good enough and can't be 'leaders.'
This is what we have to transform if sudo room or omni is gonna survive.
Unfortunately I can't offer a whole lot myself, but I'll think of
something. One thing I've learned is that little things add up.
We need to know ea. other & trust ea. other if we're really going to
work together. And we need to believe that our efforts will actually pay
off -- that they'll be well received & help create some great experience.
So I feel like lurking under concerns about the name are questions of
organization, of how to ensure a horizontalism not just in name but
also in reality, and so it seems like any discussion of renaming the
bottom-liner task is also going to have to take a real look at our
practices as collectives. Maybe I'm getting a little far afield here,
but it seems like pulling on the thread of what to call what we're
calling a bottom-liner pulls a lot of other issues with it.
-- Me 2. The term
"bottom-liner" has gotten pretty traditional, & I
can't think of any great alternatives. "Project Manager?" Gack. We can
change the name if we like, but IMO it's more important to talk about
what the bottlenecks are & how we can be creative working together so
more people feel like getting involved. I'm a newb here so I don't know
the issues/specifics, but I've been an activist long enough to know the
pattern. We need to hack our mindsets so that we all see a little bit of
organizing/bottomlining here & there as part of a fun life.
Cheers,
Ed Rippy
14 Jan
14 Jan
11:06 a.m.
New subject: [BAPS-Organizing] Re: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
I don't know who you are, Ed Rippy, but I can't wait to meet you IRL!
Love these thoughts and hope we can expand on them / work to develop
actionable solutions / experiments.
<3
Niki
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 11:06 PM, Ed Rippy <ed.rippy(a)mindspring.com> wrote:
On 01/11/2015 10:17 PM, Michael Nicoloff wrote:
I know on the BAPS side of things there's
been on-and-off problems with
finding enough people to bottom-line classes, and that often the duties of
bottom-lining have unevenly fallen on a few key people, so that even if the
name bottom-liner hasn't struck me as a problem, the organizing practice
has at times felt built on shaky ground. What in theory is a non-coercive,
equal, from-each-to-each kind of horizontalism becomes not so much that in
practice, with responsibility (and power) concentrating/burdening a small
number of folks.
-- This always happens. Democracy is a great ideal, & it wd be even
greater if our fundamental equality as human beans translated into equality
of work output. It doesn't for a lot of reasons. This is the toughest part
of the whole process.
The only way to reduce this problem is for more people to step up. This
is very tough, because pretty much all of us are overextended anyway, but
it's still crucial. We all grow up in a society where just about everything
happens because someone gets paid to bottomline it. If we want to create an
alternative we need to deprogram ourselves & realize that there ain't
no-one else to do it. Many of us are also programmed to feel that we aren't
good enough and can't be 'leaders.' This is what we have to transform if
sudo room or omni is gonna survive. Unfortunately I can't offer a whole lot
myself, but I'll think of something. One thing I've learned is that little
things add up.
We need to know ea. other & trust ea. other if we're really going to
work together. And we need to believe that our efforts will actually pay
off -- that they'll be well received & help create some great experience.
So I feel like lurking under concerns about the
name are questions of
organization, of how to ensure a horizontalism not just in name but also in
reality, and so it seems like any discussion of renaming the bottom-liner
task is also going to have to take a real look at our practices as
collectives. Maybe I'm getting a little far afield here, but it seems like
pulling on the thread of what to call what we're calling a bottom-liner
pulls a lot of other issues with it.
-- Me 2. The term "bottom-liner" has gotten pretty traditional, & I
can't
think of any great alternatives. "Project Manager?" Gack. We can change the
name if we like, but IMO it's more important to talk about what the
bottlenecks are & how we can be creative working together so more people
feel like getting involved. I'm a newb here so I don't know the
issues/specifics, but I've been an activist long enough to know the
pattern. We need to hack our mindsets so that we all see a little bit of
organizing/bottomlining here & there as part of a fun life.
Cheers,
Ed Rippy
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
15 Jan
15 Jan
5:32 p.m.
New subject: [BAPS-Organizing] Re: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
some more hopefully-less-hierarchical-terms:
* responsibili-buddy
* point-of-contact
* liaison
* ambassador
* confidant
* advocate
* messenger
* intermediary
* connection
* fixer
* agent
* emissary
* promoter
* producer
Perhaps "producer" is subtly honest, "responsibili-buddy" is most fun
to
pronounce, and "coordinator" is the closest practical analog to the current
"bottom-liner"?
// Matt
p.s. "Advocate" goes in a totally different direction, maybe worth some
consideration...
On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:06 AM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know who you are, Ed Rippy, but I
can't wait to meet you IRL!
Love these thoughts and hope we can expand on them / work to develop
actionable solutions / experiments.
<3
Niki
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 11:06 PM, Ed Rippy <ed.rippy(a)mindspring.com>
wrote:
On 01/11/2015 10:17 PM, Michael Nicoloff wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
I know on the BAPS side of things there's
been on-and-off problems with
finding enough people to bottom-line classes, and that often the duties of
bottom-lining have unevenly fallen on a few key people, so that even if the
name bottom-liner hasn't struck me as a problem, the organizing practice
has at times felt built on shaky ground. What in theory is a non-coercive,
equal, from-each-to-each kind of horizontalism becomes not so much that in
practice, with responsibility (and power) concentrating/burdening a small
number of folks.
-- This always happens. Democracy is a great ideal, & it wd be even
greater if our fundamental equality as human beans translated into equality
of work output. It doesn't for a lot of reasons. This is the toughest part
of the whole process.
The only way to reduce this problem is for more people to step up.
This is very tough, because pretty much all of us are overextended anyway,
but it's still crucial. We all grow up in a society where just about
everything happens because someone gets paid to bottomline it. If we want
to create an alternative we need to deprogram ourselves & realize that
there ain't no-one else to do it. Many of us are also programmed to feel
that we aren't good enough and can't be 'leaders.' This is what we have
to
transform if sudo room or omni is gonna survive. Unfortunately I can't
offer a whole lot myself, but I'll think of something. One thing I've
learned is that little things add up.
We need to know ea. other & trust ea. other if we're really going to
work together. And we need to believe that our efforts will actually pay
off -- that they'll be well received & help create some great experience.
So I feel like lurking under concerns about the
name are questions of
organization, of how to ensure a horizontalism not just in name but also in
reality, and so it seems like any discussion of renaming the bottom-liner
task is also going to have to take a real look at our practices as
collectives. Maybe I'm getting a little far afield here, but it seems like
pulling on the thread of what to call what we're calling a bottom-liner
pulls a lot of other issues with it.
-- Me 2. The term "bottom-liner" has gotten pretty traditional, & I
can't
think of any great alternatives. "Project Manager?" Gack. We can change the
name if we like, but IMO it's more important to talk about what the
bottlenecks are & how we can be creative working together so more people
feel like getting involved. I'm a newb here so I don't know the
issues/specifics, but I've been an activist long enough to know the
pattern. We need to hack our mindsets so that we all see a little bit of
organizing/bottomlining here & there as part of a fun life.
Cheers,
Ed Rippy
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
5:40 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] [BAPS-Organizing] Re: Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
Response enabler
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 15, 2015, at 5:32 PM, Matthew Senate
<mattsenate(a)gmail.com> wrote:
some more hopefully-less-hierarchical-terms:
* responsibili-buddy
* point-of-contact
* liaison
* ambassador
* confidant
* advocate
* messenger
* intermediary
* connection
* fixer
* agent
* emissary
* promoter
* producer
Perhaps "producer" is subtly honest, "responsibili-buddy" is most fun
to pronounce, and "coordinator" is the closest practical analog to the current
"bottom-liner"?
// Matt
p.s. "Advocate" goes in a totally different direction, maybe worth some
consideration...
On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:06 AM, niki
<niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know who you are, Ed Rippy, but I can't wait to meet you IRL!
Love these thoughts and hope we can expand on them / work to develop actionable solutions
/ experiments.
<3
Niki
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 11:06 PM, Ed Rippy
<ed.rippy(a)mindspring.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss On 01/11/2015 10:17 PM, Michael Nicoloff wrote:
I know on the BAPS side of things there's been on-and-off problems with finding
enough people to bottom-line classes, and that often the duties of bottom-lining have
unevenly fallen on a few key people, so that even if the name bottom-liner hasn't
struck me as a problem, the organizing practice has at times felt built on shaky ground.
What in theory is a non-coercive, equal, from-each-to-each kind of horizontalism becomes
not so much that in practice, with responsibility (and power) concentrating/burdening a
small number of folks.
-- This always happens. Democracy is a great ideal, & it wd be even greater if our
fundamental equality as human beans translated into equality of work output. It
doesn't for a lot of reasons. This is the toughest part of the whole process.
The only way to reduce this problem is for more people to step up. This is very tough,
because pretty much all of us are overextended anyway, but it's still crucial. We all
grow up in a society where just about everything happens because someone gets paid to
bottomline it. If we want to create an alternative we need to deprogram ourselves &
realize that there ain't no-one else to do it. Many of us are also programmed to feel
that we aren't good enough and can't be 'leaders.' This is what we have to
transform if sudo room or omni is gonna survive. Unfortunately I can't offer a whole
lot myself, but I'll think of something. One thing I've learned is that little
things add up.
We need to know ea. other & trust ea. other if we're really going to work
together. And we need to believe that our efforts will actually pay off -- that
they'll be well received & help create some great experience.
So I feel like lurking under concerns about the name are questions of organization, of
how to ensure a horizontalism not just in name but also in reality, and so it seems like
any discussion of renaming the bottom-liner task is also going to have to take a real look
at our practices as collectives. Maybe I'm getting a little far afield here, but it
seems like pulling on the thread of what to call what we're calling a bottom-liner
pulls a lot of other issues with it.
-- Me 2. The term "bottom-liner" has
gotten pretty traditional, & I can't think of any great alternatives.
"Project Manager?" Gack. We can change the name if we like, but IMO it's
more important to talk about what the bottlenecks are & how we can be creative working
together so more people feel like getting involved. I'm a newb here so I don't
know the issues/specifics, but I've been an activist long enough to know the pattern.
We need to hack our mindsets so that we all see a little bit of organizing/bottomlining
here & there as part of a fun life.
Cheers,
Ed Rippy
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss 
5:54 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] [BAPS-Organizing] Re: Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
I'm ok with almost anything so long as the responsibilities such a title
denotes are actually clear those volunteering to take on said role.
As someone else noted, bottomliner implies the one who does not let to-do's
and responsibilities fall through the cracks, an 'if all else fails' sort
of position, which does not seem like overly elevated language to me.
'Point person' seems less preferable for the reasons also provided.
But I am somewhat agnostic, so long as the responsibilities are clear to
all.
David
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Margaretha <
margaretha.anne.haughwout(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Response enabler
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 15, 2015, at 5:32 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com> wrote:
some more hopefully-less-hierarchical-terms:
* responsibili-buddy
* point-of-contact
* liaison
* ambassador
* confidant
* advocate
* messenger
* intermediary
* connection
* fixer
* agent
* emissary
* promoter
* producer
Perhaps "producer" is subtly honest, "responsibili-buddy" is most fun
to
pronounce, and "coordinator" is the closest practical analog to the current
"bottom-liner"?
// Matt
p.s. "Advocate" goes in a totally different direction, maybe worth some
consideration...
On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:06 AM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know who you are, Ed Rippy, but I
can't wait to meet you IRL!
Love these thoughts and hope we can expand on them / work to develop
actionable solutions / experiments.
<3
Niki
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 11:06 PM, Ed Rippy <ed.rippy(a)mindspring.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
On 01/11/2015 10:17 PM, Michael Nicoloff wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
I know on the BAPS side of things there's
been on-and-off problems with
finding enough people to bottom-line classes, and that often the duties of
bottom-lining have unevenly fallen on a few key people, so that even if the
name bottom-liner hasn't struck me as a problem, the organizing practice
has at times felt built on shaky ground. What in theory is a non-coercive,
equal, from-each-to-each kind of horizontalism becomes not so much that in
practice, with responsibility (and power) concentrating/burdening a small
number of folks.
-- This always happens. Democracy is a great ideal, & it wd be even
greater if our fundamental equality as human beans translated into equality
of work output. It doesn't for a lot of reasons. This is the toughest part
of the whole process.
The only way to reduce this problem is for more people to step up.
This is very tough, because pretty much all of us are overextended anyway,
but it's still crucial. We all grow up in a society where just about
everything happens because someone gets paid to bottomline it. If we want
to create an alternative we need to deprogram ourselves & realize that
there ain't no-one else to do it. Many of us are also programmed to feel
that we aren't good enough and can't be 'leaders.' This is what we have
to
transform if sudo room or omni is gonna survive. Unfortunately I can't
offer a whole lot myself, but I'll think of something. One thing I've
learned is that little things add up.
We need to know ea. other & trust ea. other if we're really going to
work together. And we need to believe that our efforts will actually pay
off -- that they'll be well received & help create some great experience.
So I feel like lurking under concerns about the
name are questions of
organization, of how to ensure a horizontalism not just in name but also in
reality, and so it seems like any discussion of renaming the bottom-liner
task is also going to have to take a real look at our practices as
collectives. Maybe I'm getting a little far afield here, but it seems like
pulling on the thread of what to call what we're calling a bottom-liner
pulls a lot of other issues with it.
-- Me 2. The term "bottom-liner" has gotten pretty traditional, & I
can't think of any great alternatives. "Project Manager?" Gack. We can
change the name if we like, but IMO it's more important to talk about what
the bottlenecks are & how we can be creative working together so more
people feel like getting involved. I'm a newb here so I don't know the
issues/specifics, but I've been an activist long enough to know the
pattern. We need to hack our mindsets so that we all see a little bit of
organizing/bottomlining here & there as part of a fun life.
Cheers,
Ed Rippy
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
6:22 p.m.
New subject: [BAPS-Organizing] Re: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
Is there a specific list of tasks/responsibilities that the "bottom-liner"
has to do?
Matt's list of terms suggest a number of different, specific
responsibilities that a person with that title might have. Semantics are
important here.
Here's a (partial) list of many of the things that are done as part of an
event. I like to split them along content-oriented tasks, and
organizational tasks.
*Content Tasks:*
* Come up with an event name, descriptive text, pictures for putting on the
website and on social media
* Create workshop, or presentation, or performance for the event
* Facilitate / teach / perform at the event
*Organizational/Administrative/Marketing/Financial Tasks:*
* Make sure the event doesn't conflict with other events in the space at
that time
* Post the event on the website
* Create event registration webpage if needed
* Post the event on social media sites. Promote the event.
* Secure sponsorships for events
* Create flyers and collateral for promoting the event
* Keep a list of contact information for all people participating in the
event
* Keep people informed of ongoing changes or things they need to do to get
ready
* Confirm that the event is still happening X days before the event (so we
can clear out the calendar if not)
* Buy / provide food and drink for event
* Make sure the space is ready at the right time, including unlocking doors
if needed
* Make sure all needed equipment is available and in working order
* Direct people to the event in the space
* Help set up for the event
* Clean up after the event. Lock up the space if necessary.
* Collect payment or donations for use of the space
* Send payments to performers or event partners
What are some of the other things?
If people don't feel comfortable with the explicit or implicit list of
responsibilities associated with being a bottom-liner, we can re-define
them. As well as the term.
Cheers,
Anca.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
some more hopefully-less-hierarchical-terms:
* responsibili-buddy
* point-of-contact
* liaison
* ambassador
* confidant
* advocate
* messenger
* intermediary
* connection
* fixer
* agent
* emissary
* promoter
* producer
Perhaps "producer" is subtly honest, "responsibili-buddy" is most fun
to
pronounce, and "coordinator" is the closest practical analog to the current
"bottom-liner"?
// Matt
p.s. "Advocate" goes in a totally different direction, maybe worth some
consideration...
On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:06 AM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
-=-=-=-
Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal
anca(a)techliminal.com
M: (510) 220-6660
http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal
I don't know who you are, Ed Rippy, but I
can't wait to meet you IRL!
Love these thoughts and hope we can expand on them / work to develop
actionable solutions / experiments.
<3
Niki
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 11:06 PM, Ed Rippy <ed.rippy(a)mindspring.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
On 01/11/2015 10:17 PM, Michael Nicoloff wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
I know on the BAPS side of things there's
been on-and-off problems with
finding enough people to bottom-line classes, and that often the duties of
bottom-lining have unevenly fallen on a few key people, so that even if the
name bottom-liner hasn't struck me as a problem, the organizing practice
has at times felt built on shaky ground. What in theory is a non-coercive,
equal, from-each-to-each kind of horizontalism becomes not so much that in
practice, with responsibility (and power) concentrating/burdening a small
number of folks.
-- This always happens. Democracy is a great ideal, & it wd be even
greater if our fundamental equality as human beans translated into equality
of work output. It doesn't for a lot of reasons. This is the toughest part
of the whole process.
The only way to reduce this problem is for more people to step up.
This is very tough, because pretty much all of us are overextended anyway,
but it's still crucial. We all grow up in a society where just about
everything happens because someone gets paid to bottomline it. If we want
to create an alternative we need to deprogram ourselves & realize that
there ain't no-one else to do it. Many of us are also programmed to feel
that we aren't good enough and can't be 'leaders.' This is what we have
to
transform if sudo room or omni is gonna survive. Unfortunately I can't
offer a whole lot myself, but I'll think of something. One thing I've
learned is that little things add up.
We need to know ea. other & trust ea. other if we're really going to
work together. And we need to believe that our efforts will actually pay
off -- that they'll be well received & help create some great experience.
So I feel like lurking under concerns about the
name are questions of
organization, of how to ensure a horizontalism not just in name but also in
reality, and so it seems like any discussion of renaming the bottom-liner
task is also going to have to take a real look at our practices as
collectives. Maybe I'm getting a little far afield here, but it seems like
pulling on the thread of what to call what we're calling a bottom-liner
pulls a lot of other issues with it.
-- Me 2. The term "bottom-liner" has gotten pretty traditional, & I
can't think of any great alternatives. "Project Manager?" Gack. We can
change the name if we like, but IMO it's more important to talk about what
the bottlenecks are & how we can be creative working together so more
people feel like getting involved. I'm a newb here so I don't know the
issues/specifics, but I've been an activist long enough to know the
pattern. We need to hack our mindsets so that we all see a little bit of
organizing/bottomlining here & there as part of a fun life.
Cheers,
Ed Rippy
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
16 Jan
16 Jan
1:54 p.m.
New subject: [BAPS-Organizing] Re: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
Anca,
Thanks for putting together that list. I agree it would be *wonderful if
the work of organizing / facilitating / administering events was shared
among several people rather than the responsibility of just one person.
Unfortunately, there are only a couple of people who are currently doing
this work for the multiple event requests that come in daily. So it's
actually about 4 or 5 people doing all of that work for literally dozens of
events weekly.
We could certainly use more help with this - whether it's taking on the
organizing work for an event or two to revising the process for how we
distribute this work / encourage people to participate in it.
<3
N
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Anca Mosoiu <anca(a)techliminal.com> wrote:
Is there a specific list of tasks/responsibilities
that the "bottom-liner"
has to do?
Matt's list of terms suggest a number of different, specific
responsibilities that a person with that title might have. Semantics are
important here.
Here's a (partial) list of many of the things that are done as part of an
event. I like to split them along content-oriented tasks, and
organizational tasks.
*Content Tasks:*
* Come up with an event name, descriptive text, pictures for putting on
the website and on social media
* Create workshop, or presentation, or performance for the event
* Facilitate / teach / perform at the event
*Organizational/Administrative/Marketing/Financial Tasks:*
* Make sure the event doesn't conflict with other events in the space at
that time
* Post the event on the website
* Create event registration webpage if needed
* Post the event on social media sites. Promote the event.
* Secure sponsorships for events
* Create flyers and collateral for promoting the event
* Keep a list of contact information for all people participating in the
event
* Keep people informed of ongoing changes or things they need to do to get
ready
* Confirm that the event is still happening X days before the event (so we
can clear out the calendar if not)
* Buy / provide food and drink for event
* Make sure the space is ready at the right time, including unlocking
doors if needed
* Make sure all needed equipment is available and in working order
* Direct people to the event in the space
* Help set up for the event
* Clean up after the event. Lock up the space if necessary.
* Collect payment or donations for use of the space
* Send payments to performers or event partners
What are some of the other things?
If people don't feel comfortable with the explicit or implicit list of
responsibilities associated with being a bottom-liner, we can re-define
them. As well as the term.
Cheers,
Anca.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
some more hopefully-less-hierarchical-terms:
* responsibili-buddy
* point-of-contact
* liaison
* ambassador
* confidant
* advocate
* messenger
* intermediary
* connection
* fixer
* agent
* emissary
* promoter
* producer
Perhaps "producer" is subtly honest, "responsibili-buddy" is most fun
to
pronounce, and "coordinator" is the closest practical analog to the current
"bottom-liner"?
// Matt
p.s. "Advocate" goes in a totally different direction, maybe worth some
consideration...
On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:06 AM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
-=-=-=-
Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal
anca(a)techliminal.com
M: (510) 220-6660
http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
I don't know who you are, Ed Rippy, but I
can't wait to meet you IRL!
Love these thoughts and hope we can expand on them / work to develop
actionable solutions / experiments.
<3
Niki
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 11:06 PM, Ed Rippy <ed.rippy(a)mindspring.com>
wrote:
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
On 01/11/2015 10:17 PM, Michael Nicoloff wrote:
> I know on the BAPS side of things there's been on-and-off problems
> with finding enough people to bottom-line classes, and that often the
> duties of bottom-lining have unevenly fallen on a few key people, so that
> even if the name bottom-liner hasn't struck me as a problem, the organizing
> practice has at times felt built on shaky ground. What in theory is a
> non-coercive, equal, from-each-to-each kind of horizontalism becomes not so
> much that in practice, with responsibility (and power)
> concentrating/burdening a small number of folks.
>
-- This always happens. Democracy is a great ideal, & it wd be even
greater if our fundamental equality as human beans translated into equality
of work output. It doesn't for a lot of reasons. This is the toughest part
of the whole process.
The only way to reduce this problem is for more people to step up.
This is very tough, because pretty much all of us are overextended anyway,
but it's still crucial. We all grow up in a society where just about
everything happens because someone gets paid to bottomline it. If we want
to create an alternative we need to deprogram ourselves & realize that
there ain't no-one else to do it. Many of us are also programmed to feel
that we aren't good enough and can't be 'leaders.' This is what we have
to
transform if sudo room or omni is gonna survive. Unfortunately I can't
offer a whole lot myself, but I'll think of something. One thing I've
learned is that little things add up.
We need to know ea. other & trust ea. other if we're really going to
work together. And we need to believe that our efforts will actually pay
off -- that they'll be well received & help create some great experience.
> So I feel like lurking under concerns about the name are questions of
> organization, of how to ensure a horizontalism not just in name but also in
> reality, and so it seems like any discussion of renaming the bottom-liner
> task is also going to have to take a real look at our practices as
> collectives. Maybe I'm getting a little far afield here, but it seems like
> pulling on the thread of what to call what we're calling a bottom-liner
> pulls a lot of other issues with it.
>
-- Me 2. The term "bottom-liner" has gotten pretty traditional, & I
can't think of any great alternatives. "Project Manager?" Gack. We can
change the name if we like, but IMO it's more important to talk about what
the bottlenecks are & how we can be creative working together so more
people feel like getting involved. I'm a newb here so I don't know the
issues/specifics, but I've been an activist long enough to know the
pattern. We need to hack our mindsets so that we all see a little bit of
organizing/bottomlining here & there as part of a fun life.
Cheers,
Ed Rippy
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
1:59 p.m.
New subject: [BAPS-Organizing] Re: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
Oh, I also wanted to share the list of responsibilities for those
stewarding events that we put together awhile ago. Y'all should feel free
to add things you think are missing:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fsm4dn4NHRl8D9mYYKDQAhF-IHMsOjRM-MVnnH_…
xo
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:54 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Anca,
Thanks for putting together that list. I agree it would be *wonderful if
the work of organizing / facilitating / administering events was shared
among several people rather than the responsibility of just one person.
Unfortunately, there are only a couple of people who are currently doing
this work for the multiple event requests that come in daily. So it's
actually about 4 or 5 people doing all of that work for literally dozens of
events weekly.
We could certainly use more help with this - whether it's taking on the
organizing work for an event or two to revising the process for how we
distribute this work / encourage people to participate in it.
<3
N
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Anca Mosoiu <anca(a)techliminal.com> wrote:
Is there a specific list of
tasks/responsibilities that the
"bottom-liner" has to do?
Matt's list of terms suggest a number of different, specific
responsibilities that a person with that title might have. Semantics are
important here.
Here's a (partial) list of many of the things that are done as part of an
event. I like to split them along content-oriented tasks, and
organizational tasks.
*Content Tasks:*
* Come up with an event name, descriptive text, pictures for putting on
the website and on social media
* Create workshop, or presentation, or performance for the event
* Facilitate / teach / perform at the event
*Organizational/Administrative/Marketing/Financial Tasks:*
* Make sure the event doesn't conflict with other events in the space at
that time
* Post the event on the website
* Create event registration webpage if needed
* Post the event on social media sites. Promote the event.
* Secure sponsorships for events
* Create flyers and collateral for promoting the event
* Keep a list of contact information for all people participating in the
event
* Keep people informed of ongoing changes or things they need to do to
get ready
* Confirm that the event is still happening X days before the event (so
we can clear out the calendar if not)
* Buy / provide food and drink for event
* Make sure the space is ready at the right time, including unlocking
doors if needed
* Make sure all needed equipment is available and in working order
* Direct people to the event in the space
* Help set up for the event
* Clean up after the event. Lock up the space if necessary.
* Collect payment or donations for use of the space
* Send payments to performers or event partners
What are some of the other things?
If people don't feel comfortable with the explicit or implicit list of
responsibilities associated with being a bottom-liner, we can re-define
them. As well as the term.
Cheers,
Anca.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
some more hopefully-less-hierarchical-terms:
* responsibili-buddy
* point-of-contact
* liaison
* ambassador
* confidant
* advocate
* messenger
* intermediary
* connection
* fixer
* agent
* emissary
* promoter
* producer
Perhaps "producer" is subtly honest, "responsibili-buddy" is most fun
to
pronounce, and "coordinator" is the closest practical analog to the current
"bottom-liner"?
// Matt
p.s. "Advocate" goes in a totally different direction, maybe worth some
consideration...
On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:06 AM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
-=-=-=-
Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal
anca(a)techliminal.com
M: (510) 220-6660
http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
I don't know who you are, Ed Rippy, but I
can't wait to meet you IRL!
Love these thoughts and hope we can expand on them / work to develop
actionable solutions / experiments.
<3
Niki
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 11:06 PM, Ed Rippy <ed.rippy(a)mindspring.com>
wrote:
>
> On 01/11/2015 10:17 PM, Michael Nicoloff wrote:
>
>> I know on the BAPS side of things there's been on-and-off problems
>> with finding enough people to bottom-line classes, and that often the
>> duties of bottom-lining have unevenly fallen on a few key people, so that
>> even if the name bottom-liner hasn't struck me as a problem, the organizing
>> practice has at times felt built on shaky ground. What in theory is a
>> non-coercive, equal, from-each-to-each kind of horizontalism becomes not so
>> much that in practice, with responsibility (and power)
>> concentrating/burdening a small number of folks.
>>
>
> -- This always happens. Democracy is a great ideal, & it wd be even
> greater if our fundamental equality as human beans translated into equality
> of work output. It doesn't for a lot of reasons. This is the toughest part
> of the whole process.
>
> The only way to reduce this problem is for more people to step up.
> This is very tough, because pretty much all of us are overextended anyway,
> but it's still crucial. We all grow up in a society where just about
> everything happens because someone gets paid to bottomline it. If we want
> to create an alternative we need to deprogram ourselves & realize that
> there ain't no-one else to do it. Many of us are also programmed to feel
> that we aren't good enough and can't be 'leaders.' This is what we
have to
> transform if sudo room or omni is gonna survive. Unfortunately I can't
> offer a whole lot myself, but I'll think of something. One thing I've
> learned is that little things add up.
>
> We need to know ea. other & trust ea. other if we're really going
> to work together. And we need to believe that our efforts will actually pay
> off -- that they'll be well received & help create some great experience.
>
>
>> So I feel like lurking under concerns about the name are questions of
>> organization, of how to ensure a horizontalism not just in name but also in
>> reality, and so it seems like any discussion of renaming the bottom-liner
>> task is also going to have to take a real look at our practices as
>> collectives. Maybe I'm getting a little far afield here, but it seems like
>> pulling on the thread of what to call what we're calling a bottom-liner
>> pulls a lot of other issues with it.
>>
> -- Me 2. The term "bottom-liner" has gotten pretty traditional, & I
> can't think of any great alternatives. "Project Manager?" Gack. We can
> change the name if we like, but IMO it's more important to talk about what
> the bottlenecks are & how we can be creative working together so more
> people feel like getting involved. I'm a newb here so I don't know the
> issues/specifics, but I've been an activist long enough to know the
> pattern. We need to hack our mindsets so that we all see a little bit of
> organizing/bottomlining here & there as part of a fun life.
>
> Cheers,
> Ed Rippy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
17 Jan
17 Jan
3:13 p.m.
New subject: [BAPS-Organizing] Re: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
If the number of people coordinating the events is too small to handle the
number of events people want to have, then it might be helpful to set up an
earlier step in the process to flush events that aren't a good fit, such
that 4-5 people will not be overwhelmed.
For example, moving the event scheduling step to after the person has
accepted the contract and the pricing structure is agreed on, might save on
some of the coordination time with people who aren't serious enough about
their events to grok the process and guidelines.
What are some of the specific complaints that bottom-liners have, in
regards to the work they have to do?
Cheers,
Anca.
On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:54 PM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Anca,
Thanks for putting together that list. I agree it would be *wonderful if
the work of organizing / facilitating / administering events was shared
among several people rather than the responsibility of just one person.
Unfortunately, there are only a couple of people who are currently doing
this work for the multiple event requests that come in daily. So it's
actually about 4 or 5 people doing all of that work for literally dozens of
events weekly.
We could certainly use more help with this - whether it's taking on the
organizing work for an event or two to revising the process for how we
distribute this work / encourage people to participate in it.
<3
N
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:22 PM, Anca Mosoiu <anca(a)techliminal.com> wrote:
--
-=-=-=-
Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal
anca(a)techliminal.com
M: (510) 220-6660
http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal
Is there a specific list of
tasks/responsibilities that the
"bottom-liner" has to do?
Matt's list of terms suggest a number of different, specific
responsibilities that a person with that title might have. Semantics are
important here.
Here's a (partial) list of many of the things that are done as part of an
event. I like to split them along content-oriented tasks, and
organizational tasks.
*Content Tasks:*
* Come up with an event name, descriptive text, pictures for putting on
the website and on social media
* Create workshop, or presentation, or performance for the event
* Facilitate / teach / perform at the event
*Organizational/Administrative/Marketing/Financial Tasks:*
* Make sure the event doesn't conflict with other events in the space at
that time
* Post the event on the website
* Create event registration webpage if needed
* Post the event on social media sites. Promote the event.
* Secure sponsorships for events
* Create flyers and collateral for promoting the event
* Keep a list of contact information for all people participating in the
event
* Keep people informed of ongoing changes or things they need to do to
get ready
* Confirm that the event is still happening X days before the event (so
we can clear out the calendar if not)
* Buy / provide food and drink for event
* Make sure the space is ready at the right time, including unlocking
doors if needed
* Make sure all needed equipment is available and in working order
* Direct people to the event in the space
* Help set up for the event
* Clean up after the event. Lock up the space if necessary.
* Collect payment or donations for use of the space
* Send payments to performers or event partners
What are some of the other things?
If people don't feel comfortable with the explicit or implicit list of
responsibilities associated with being a bottom-liner, we can re-define
them. As well as the term.
Cheers,
Anca.
On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
some more hopefully-less-hierarchical-terms:
* responsibili-buddy
* point-of-contact
* liaison
* ambassador
* confidant
* advocate
* messenger
* intermediary
* connection
* fixer
* agent
* emissary
* promoter
* producer
Perhaps "producer" is subtly honest, "responsibili-buddy" is most fun
to
pronounce, and "coordinator" is the closest practical analog to the current
"bottom-liner"?
// Matt
p.s. "Advocate" goes in a totally different direction, maybe worth some
consideration...
On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 11:06 AM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
--
-=-=-=-
Anca Mosoiu | Tech Liminal
anca(a)techliminal.com
M: (510) 220-6660
http://techliminal.com | T: @techliminal | F: facebook.com/techliminal
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
I don't know who you are, Ed Rippy, but I
can't wait to meet you IRL!
Love these thoughts and hope we can expand on them / work to develop
actionable solutions / experiments.
<3
Niki
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 11:06 PM, Ed Rippy <ed.rippy(a)mindspring.com>
wrote:
>
> On 01/11/2015 10:17 PM, Michael Nicoloff wrote:
>
>> I know on the BAPS side of things there's been on-and-off problems
>> with finding enough people to bottom-line classes, and that often the
>> duties of bottom-lining have unevenly fallen on a few key people, so that
>> even if the name bottom-liner hasn't struck me as a problem, the organizing
>> practice has at times felt built on shaky ground. What in theory is a
>> non-coercive, equal, from-each-to-each kind of horizontalism becomes not so
>> much that in practice, with responsibility (and power)
>> concentrating/burdening a small number of folks.
>>
>
> -- This always happens. Democracy is a great ideal, & it wd be even
> greater if our fundamental equality as human beans translated into equality
> of work output. It doesn't for a lot of reasons. This is the toughest part
> of the whole process.
>
> The only way to reduce this problem is for more people to step up.
> This is very tough, because pretty much all of us are overextended anyway,
> but it's still crucial. We all grow up in a society where just about
> everything happens because someone gets paid to bottomline it. If we want
> to create an alternative we need to deprogram ourselves & realize that
> there ain't no-one else to do it. Many of us are also programmed to feel
> that we aren't good enough and can't be 'leaders.' This is what we
have to
> transform if sudo room or omni is gonna survive. Unfortunately I can't
> offer a whole lot myself, but I'll think of something. One thing I've
> learned is that little things add up.
>
> We need to know ea. other & trust ea. other if we're really going
> to work together. And we need to believe that our efforts will actually pay
> off -- that they'll be well received & help create some great experience.
>
>
>> So I feel like lurking under concerns about the name are questions of
>> organization, of how to ensure a horizontalism not just in name but also in
>> reality, and so it seems like any discussion of renaming the bottom-liner
>> task is also going to have to take a real look at our practices as
>> collectives. Maybe I'm getting a little far afield here, but it seems like
>> pulling on the thread of what to call what we're calling a bottom-liner
>> pulls a lot of other issues with it.
>>
> -- Me 2. The term "bottom-liner" has gotten pretty traditional, & I
> can't think of any great alternatives. "Project Manager?" Gack. We can
> change the name if we like, but IMO it's more important to talk about what
> the bottlenecks are & how we can be creative working together so more
> people feel like getting involved. I'm a newb here so I don't know the
> issues/specifics, but I've been an activist long enough to know the
> pattern. We need to hack our mindsets so that we all see a little bit of
> organizing/bottomlining here & there as part of a fun life.
>
> Cheers,
> Ed Rippy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sudo-discuss mailing list
> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
11 Jan
11 Jan
1:49 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
Yes. Thank you.
In the end, the mechanism is still that we appoint an
individual to carry
somewhat more responsibility for an event, because otherwise things will
inevitably fall through the cracks. You can call them a bottom-liner, a
facilitator, a coordinator, a point person or whatever you want. Does it
suggest an unequal division of labor? Sure it does, but that just reflects
reality. We can strive for a more equal distribution, but in my opinion
just changing the name is not going to change the fact that some people put
in more effort than others, or that in some cases it is actually more
efficient for one person to take charge of certain details.
What's in a name? that which we call a rose by any other name would smell
as sweet...
Patrik
On Jan 11, 2015 10:38 AM, "lee worden"
<wonder(a)riseup.net> wrote:
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
"point person"?
On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
joe
On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
Hey all,
I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we
replace the word bottom-liner.
Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt to
replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one another
if and when we slip up?
As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a lot
of us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take a bit
of time before it collectively takes root.
It would be great if those who take particular issue with this phrase
could put forth their suggestions.
I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the real
world.
Here are some suggestions of mine:
* steward
* curator
* representative
Love,
N
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing
listsudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.orghttps://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
10:42 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
I believe the issue was that bottom liner metaphorically suggests some kind
of hierarchy or unequal distribution of power / labor.
That said, I am going to include bottom-liner in the poll because I do feel
an argument could be made that it simply suggests someone who is
participating in the foundation building of this project - I just want to
give the community a chance to weigh in / address this issue so that we can
move forward as it's come up again recently.
Love,
Niki
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:38 AM, lee worden <wonder(a)riseup.net> wrote:
"point person"?
On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
joe
On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
Hey all,
I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we
replace the word bottom-liner.
Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt to
replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one another
if and when we slip up?
As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a lot
of us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take a bit
of time before it collectively takes root.
It would be great if those who take particular issue with this phrase
could put forth their suggestions.
I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the real
world.
Here are some suggestions of mine:
* steward
* curator
* representative
Love,
N
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing
listsudo-discuss@lists.sudoroom.orghttps://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
11 a.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
I like point person
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:42 AM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I believe the issue was that bottom liner
metaphorically suggests some kind
of hierarchy or unequal distribution of power / labor.
That said, I am going to include bottom-liner in the poll because I do feel
an argument could be made that it simply suggests someone who is
participating in the foundation building of this project - I just want to
give the community a chance to weigh in / address this issue so that we can
move forward as it's come up again recently.
Love,
Niki
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:38 AM, lee worden <wonder(a)riseup.net> wrote:
--
Karissa McKelvey
@karissamck
github.com/karissa
karissamck.com
"point person"?
On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
joe
On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
Hey all,
I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we
replace the word bottom-liner.
Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt to
replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one another if
and when we slip up?
As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a lot of
us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take a bit of
time before it collectively takes root.
It would be great if those who take particular issue with this phrase
could put forth their suggestions.
I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the real
world.
Here are some suggestions of mine:
* steward
* curator
* representative
Love,
N
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
1:18 p.m.
New subject: [omni-discuss] Replacing the term "bottom-liner" with..?
For what it's worth, "point person" is the phrase used on the event booking
form : )
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Karissa McKelvey
<karissa.mckelvey(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I like point person
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:42 AM, niki <niki.shelley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I believe the issue was that bottom liner
metaphorically suggests some kind
of hierarchy or unequal distribution of power / labor.
That said, I am going to include bottom-liner in the poll because I do feel
an argument could be made that it simply suggests someone who is
participating in the foundation building of this project - I just want to
give the community a chance to weigh in / address this issue so that we can
move forward as it's come up again recently.
Love,
Niki
On Sun, Jan 11, 2015 at 10:38 AM, lee worden <wonder(a)riseup.net> wrote:
--
Karissa McKelvey
@karissamck
github.com/karissa
karissamck.com
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
"point person"?
On 01/11/2015 10:27 AM, joseph liesner wrote:
overseer; host; ITGT (if Then go To)
joe
On Jan 11, 2015, at 10:13 AM, niki wrote:
Hey all,
I want to honor the request from some Omni community members that we
replace the word bottom-liner.
Can we collect a list of alternatives and mutually agree to attempt to
replace this phrase / to lovingly and compassionately correct one another if
and when we slip up?
As little as it may seem, this will require a cultural shift for a lot of
us that I'm sure we're all willing to make, but it'll likely take a bit of
time before it collectively takes root.
It would be great if those who take particular issue with this phrase
could put forth their suggestions.
I will collect suggestions and make a poll both online and in the real
world.
Here are some suggestions of mine:
* steward
* curator
* representative
Love,
N
_______________________________________________
discuss mailing list
discuss(a)lists.omnicommons.org
https://omnicommons.org/lists/listinfo/discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
3438
days inactive
3444
days old
28 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
Amgo Go -
Anca Mosoiu -
Cere Misc -
Danny Spitzberg -
David Keenan -
Ed Rippy -
joseph liesner -
Karissa McKelvey -
lee worden -
Margaretha -
Matthew Senate -
Michael Nicoloff -
niki -
Patrik D'haeseleer -
Ryan -
Stephen Novotny -
Tony Barreca