Fwd: Today 4/4/15: Pidgen and Daren have been temp banned for safer spaces policy violations
7 Apr
2015
7 Apr
'15
3:39 a.m.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 3:29 AM
Subject: Re: [sudo-discuss] Today 4/4/15: Pidgen and Daren have been temp
banned for safer spaces policy violations
To: Hol Gaskill <hol(a)gaskill.com>
Cc: Rachel Wolfsohn <rawjnana(a)gmail.com>om>, "mediation(a)omnicommons.org"
<
mediation(a)omnicommons.org>gt;, cdc(a)lists.omnicommons.org
"* If you don't believe people can change, you don't believe in RJ or
TJ, **and
I would LOVE to hear your alternative**to my eyes the only other options
are punishment or annihilation, like the state does,** if you're really
radical, you'll seek alternative forms of resolution** besides exile,
punishment and "training" people, *
*whenever possible. I do believe people can change but sometimes you need
to draw a line and make sure that the mediation process isn't being abused
by the perpetrator. Comparing my forms of dealing with accountability to
the State and it's prison/jail industrial complex is gravely offensive to
me. I have been to jail before for being homeless - ( 3 charges of
tresspassing) - stopping cops from beating people up or using a car to
crash into a crowd -( 2 charges obstructing a peace officer)- getting
crashed into by a cop - (assault on an officer- charges dropped) stopping
the earth from being destroyed and otherwise homeless peoples camps by
blockade ( 2 charges obstruction of a roadway) Every time was arrested I
endured beatings as well as mental and once extreme physical torture.
Comparing my process to such a brutal process as the state's is really
fucked up.*
NOT ONCE have I seen you actually pursue mediation. No one has asked me to
attend a meeting or anything but when ever people have wanted to talk to me
I have stopped what I was doing to talk about accountability issues. This
is pursuing mediation. I also took the ban proposals to the sudo meetings
and have an informal mediation with FNB Joe.
*IN FACT WildCAt is currently refusing to participate in more than one
mediation, **and while in some cases i actually agree with that other
person being banned, and see the issues clear** my problem wtih this is not
about that person being banned,** I often think WildCat is right,*
* but it's about THE PROCESS AND RESPECTING IT Not wanting to engage with
people I do not feel safe around is not failing to mediate. Like I have
said no one asked me to go to a follow up meeeting.*
*You Still Have To Go To Mediation **In Some Case In Your Life, Why would
i be talking on this list if i wasnt interested in mediation*
*If You Recognize The Process At All - * Rachel I followed process by
emailing y'all and I followed the steps of the Safer Spaces policy:
"These are some examples of unacceptable behavior. This list is by no means
exhaustive. Harassment includes but is not limited to:
- *Deliberate intimidation - Babs and I *
- *Deliberate misgendering or use of ‘dead’ or rejected names - Calling
me a dude and man with aggressive and accentuaded tone implying it was
intentional misgendering*
- *Threats of violence - Telling me that we should walk a couple of
blocks to settle it like adults implying he wanted to fight.*
- *Gratuitous or off-topic sexual images or behaviour in spaces where
they’re not appropriate - Telling me he liked phone sex the yelling at me
about how I needed to get off of my phone in sudo room. rather than asking
me calmly,*
4. Consequences of Unacceptable Behavior
Unacceptable behavior from anyone at the Omni, including
sponsors and those with decision-making authority, will not
be tolerated.
Anyone asked to stop unacceptable behavior is expected to
comply immediately. If someone engages in unacceptable
behavior,* anyone* at the Omni should feel empowered to take action to
address the situation (i.e., talk to the person involved, point out violent
or threatening behavior, *ask them to leave the space*, etc.). In cases
where someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may be put in place
until the Omni's conflict resolution process can be followed to resolution.
5. If You Witness or Are Subject to Unacceptable Behavior
This section needs to be fleshed out more - please see it as a draft in
progress.
- *Everyone should feel empowered to confront aggressive individuals,
but we recommend that you do not approach a potentially violent conflict
without another community member, preferably a core organizer, co-present.*
_______________________________
*If You're Willing To Work On It " - I am working my ass off on it.*
*BTW I talked to people who lived at Hellarity (susie and enola) whom
confirmed that Darin was asked to leave multiple times for sexually
innapripriate behaivor but keeped showing up. *
*Also he was banned from the G-spot Squat immediately after for sexually
grinding on/groping a person during a party which Susie Q and I were at.
(more that I have not talked to) *
On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 2:56 AM, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I think Rachel is\ blowing my proposals out of
proportion by saying
"*What would you do with them? *
*Put them all in one country? *
*Kind of like a concentration of them?*
* Like a camp? Kill them all off? **All bad ideas." *
I am not saying he is banned I am discussing proposals for a ban and a
constructive resolution. I as a non-member can still call on the safer
space policy to have someone temp banned from the space to establish
safety. No one has asked that I go to a mediation meeting I just said that
I didn't want to talk to any of these people directly.
"* If you don't believe people can change, you don't believe in RJ or
TJ, *
*and I would LOVE to hear your alternative*
*to my eyes the only other options are punishment or annihilation, like
the state does,*
* if you're really radical, you'll seek alternative forms of resolution*
* besides exile, punishment and "training" people, *
*whenever possible. *
*NOT ONCE have I seen you actually pursue mediation. *
*IN FACT WildCAt is currently refusing to participate in more than one
mediation, *
*and while in some cases i actually agree with that other person being
banned, and see the issues clear*
* my problem wtih this is not about that person being banned,*
* I often think WildCat is right,*
* but it's about THE PROCESS AND RESPECTING IT*
*You Still Have To Go To Mediation *
*In Some Case In Your Life, *
*If You Recognize The Process At All*
*If You're Willing To Work On It, "*
Rachel I followed process by emailing y'all and I followed the steps of
the Safer Spaces policy:
"These are some examples of unacceptable behavior. This list is by no
means exhaustive. Harassment includes but is not limited to:
- *Deliberate intimidation - Babs and I *
- *Deliberate misgendering or use of ‘dead’ or rejected names -
Calling me a dude and man with aggressive and accentuaded tone implying it
was intentional misgendering*
- *Threats of violence - Telling me that we should walk a couple of
blocks to settle it like adults implying he wanted to fight.*
- *Gratuitous or off-topic sexual images or behaviour in spaces where
they’re not appropriate - Telling me he liked phone sex the yelling at me
about how I needed to get off of my phone in sudo room. rather than asking
me calmly,*
4. Consequences of Unacceptable Behavior
Unacceptable behavior from anyone at the Omni, including
sponsors and those with decision-making authority, will not
be tolerated.
Anyone asked to stop unacceptable behavior is expected to
comply immediately. If someone engages in unacceptable
behavior,* anyone* at the Omni should feel empowered to take action
to address the situation (i.e., talk to the person involved, point out
violent or threatening behavior, *ask them to leave the space*, etc.). In
cases where someone's safety is at risk, a temporary ban may be put in
place until the Omni's conflict resolution process can be followed to
resolution.
5. If You Witness or Are Subject to Unacceptable Behavior
This section needs to be fleshed out more - please see it as a draft in
progress.
- *Everyone should feel empowered to confront aggressive individuals,
but we recommend that you do not approach a potentially violent conflict
without another community member, preferably a core organizer, co-present.*
_________________________________________________________________________________
On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 3:25 PM, <hol(a)gaskill.com> wrote:
friendly reminder - our conflict resolution
process was born out of a
desire to keep conflicts from consuming the time and energy of the whole
community, especially those that are not involved in the conflict and do
not have bandwidth to help mediate as an impartial party - this includes
general meetings and discussion forums
On 2015-04-06 14:02, Rachel Wolfsohn wrote:
I'm sorry, Torrie, I really am....sudoconsensus may be needed?
On Mon, Apr 06, 2015 at 1:27 PM, Torrie Fischer
<
tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net> wrote:
This is very not important to me because I don't want to read this on
Links:
------
[1] https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
_______________________________________________
sudo-discuss mailing list
sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
sudo
discuss so I'm unsubscribing from sudo discuss for a while because
everyone
keeps including sudo-discuss as if it somehow makes everything better.
On Monday, April 06, 2015 11:59:40 AM Rachel Wolfsohn wrote:
> This is very important to me, because I said I wouldn't keep including
> sudo
> discuss, and now i'm going back on that
> but WildCat does keep including sudo-discuss,
> so I feel like I can't leave it at some long email to one side bias,
> whether mine or not
> so I'm responding to sudo discuss
> to be heard by the group who is already hearing this
>
> sigh, i'm sorry, but I'm upset now....
>
> *People NEED to be given a chance to change. *
> *Just because you knew someone for a long time and saw problematic
> behavior
> before doesn't mean they can't come to a new place, *
> *and a reformed community, *
> *where they can try to learn and grow. *
>
> *If people are not given a chance to grow what would you do with them?*
>
> * If you don't believe people can change, you don't believe in RJ or
> TJ, *
> *and I would LOVE to hear your alternative*
> *to my eyes the only other options are punishment or annihilation,
> like the
> state does,*
> * if you're really radical, you'll seek alternative forms of
> resolution*
> * besides exile, punishment and "training" people, *
> *whenever possible. *
>
> *NOT ONCE have I seen you actually pursue mediation. *
>
> *IN FACT WildCAt is currently refusing to participate in more than one
> mediation, *
> *and while in some cases i actually agree with that other person being
> banned, and see the issues clear*
> * my problem wtih this is not about that person being banned,*
> * I often think WildCat is right,*
> * but it's about THE PROCESS AND RESPECTING IT*
>
> *You Still Have To Go To Mediation *
> *In Some Case In Your Life, *
> *If You Recognize The Process At All*
>
> *If You're Willing To Work On It, *
>
> *The Refusal Of Mediation Is There To Keep People Safe*
> * In Dire Circumstances *
> *Not In Any Case You Want*
> * And Every Case All The Time*
> * Because You Feel Like It And It's Your Privilege*
>
> *I don't feel like you're respecting that process....*
>
> PERSONALLY I feel:
> Exile is not a real option for the world. If someone is continuously
> exiled
> and not educated and transforming, they will have no where else to go.
> This
> is part of the world, you can't just close yourself off from it and
> ignore
> people
>
> *If you want it to get better, really get better, judging people and
> pushing them out is not the way to actually help it*
>
> *What would you do with them? *
> *Put them all in one country? *
> *Kind of like a concentration of them?*
> * Like a camp? Kill them all off? **All bad ideas. *
>
> *We need to help people grow, and *
> *if you consider yourself an organizer *
> *or a helper of the world*
> * it IS your job to help people grow a*
> *nd give people another chance, *
> *provided they seek new conditions that will faciiltate growth*
>
> *It has to come from them. Yes.*
> *And it is coming from Darin, *
> *however slowly he's learning*
>
> Btw "WildCat" You are not yet a member of sudo yet.
> And you're scaring people,
> with all your bans in a row all of a sudden,
>
> now that you think you have power
>
> *i'm not quitting, but this email put me back over, i'm taking another
> break.*
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Cere Misc <cere.misc(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> PLEASE TAKE THIS OFF THE SUDO-DISCUSS LIST!
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:32 AM, WIld Cat <
>> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Also with that one month ban I feel that from then on there would
>>> need to
>>> be zero tolerance for any of these behaviors to continue. Last time
>>> I saw
>>> him he challenged me to a fight by saying " do you want to walk a
>>> couple
>>> of
>>> blocks away and handle this like an adult" and my response was to
>>> walk
>>> away.. someone brought up to me that I was causing drama by drawing
>>> the
>>> line with these people but what folks need to understand is that
>>> each of
>>> these people have been going through conflict mediation in this
>>> space so
>>> the drama is theirs not mine. I should not be the one to blame for
>>> the
>>> taking a stance against the problems these people are causing.
>>> Though to
>>> be
>>> accountable in dealing with peoples issues I will gather more
>>> members of
>>> the space to address them.
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 6, 2015, WIld Cat <wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So I have known Darin for years and he has been called out for all
>>>> of
>>>> this behavior before and still hasn't learned. In terms of him
>>>> misgendering
>>>> me it seemed malicious because he accentuated " man" there
were
>>>> several
>>>> witnesses to his extremely aggressive behavior that was a defensive
>>>> response to me calmly asking why he was yelling at Babs. sexual
>>>> harassment
>>>> is not OK. I don't think you can speak for the other people who have
>>>> called
>>>> him out for inappropriate flirting. I had the conflict mediated by
>>>> Joe
>>>> but
>>>> but still just acts the same to different people. I would propose a
>>>> month
>>>> ban at least so he gets that its not being accountable will have
>>>> serious
>>>> consequences.
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, April 5, 2015, Rachel Wolfsohn <rawjnana(a)gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is the last email I will include sudodisxuss on for this
>>>>> thread...
>>>>>
>>>>> Darin is currently undergoing mediation, and should be given the
>>>>> chance
>>>>> to do so before a ban goes through.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a blocking concern for such a ban on darin....
>>>>>
>>>>> My belief that darin can change enough, however slowly, is
>>>>> justified
>>>>> and potent.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have seen he already has. In front of me at least, he no longer
>>>>> misgenders anyone, including those ppl he previously had, after we
>>>>> discussed it one night. Even if he's pissed at them. An
immediate
>>>>> improvement from the heart and higher self layered under psychic
>>>>> shit
>>>>> like
>>>>> we all have to deal with just like him, is what I see...He is
>>>>> actively
>>>>> working, works hard in general and physically protects ppl from
>>>>> harassment
>>>>> daily.
>>>>>
>>>>> Misgendering:
>>>>> I too have been editing "he" for "them" with you
Wildcat, because
>>>>> your
>>>>> gender pronoun is recent news to me as well as to many others.
>>>>> I strive to use They, bc of respect for trans identity in general,
>>>>> and
>>>>> ALSO camaraderie with you.
>>>>> But it takes a little time, and it is in good faith with continuous
>>>>> editing on my part, as it is for others.
>>>>> I'm really sorry you are hurt by misgendering and will do my
best
>>>>> to
>>>>> correct the instances I witness. As I'm sure Darin will too, now
>>>>> that
>>>>> this
>>>>> information is available
>>>>>
>>>>> Sexual Language:
>>>>> Darin is working on this too. I have twice hung out with darin and
>>>>> neded to comment on his comments, asking him to hold his tongue,
>>>>> bc it
>>>>> was
>>>>> TMI about his sexual thoughts.
>>>>> It was not safe space language, and I asked him to.hold his
>>>>> tongue, but
>>>>> not an implication of action either, more like expression.
>>>>> Without FAIL he immediately apologizes and aims to hold back such
>>>>> comments. He is actively learning what to reserve to his private
>>>>> thoughts
>>>>> and I appreciate it from the bottom of my heart...
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus, I have a blocking.concern for this ban suggested for Darin
>>>>>
>>>>> Love, seriously, love,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Apr 05, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Torrie Fischer <
>>>>> tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Theres community issues, then theres "issues that involve the
>>>>> hundreds
>>>>> of
>>>>> people subscribed to sudo-discuss".
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not one of those issues. I have no involvement with this. I
>>>>> don't want
>>>>> to get involved with this. I'd honestly rather not hear about
who
>>>>> is
>>>>> fighting
>>>>> who, or see people tearing down each other in public. I'd rather
>>>>> just
>>>>> hack a
>>>>> thing and assume that Sudo Room is a happy cheery place that has
>>>>> their
>>>>> shit
>>>>> together and everyone gets along.
>>>>>
>>>>> My Ƀ0.02.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, April 04, 2015 03:37:39 PM WIld Cat wrote:
>>>>> > These are community issues not personal issues.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Tracy Jacobs <
>>>>> kinetical(a)comcast.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > > Sudoers,
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Respectfully can I suggest that you find another way to
address
>>>>>
>>>>> issues of
>>>>>
>>>>> > > a personal nature and character assassinations or public
>>>>> shaming
>>>>>
>>>>> other
>>>>>
>>>>> > > than
>>>>> > > this public mailing list? Why anyone would want to go to
Sudo
>>>>> room
>>>>>
>>>>> after
>>>>>
>>>>> > > reading this mailing list is beyond my comprehension. And
it
>>>>>
>>>>> really is a
>>>>>
>>>>> > > great place. Can anyone think of another venue for these
types
>>>>> of
>>>>> > > discussions?
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Tracy
>>>>> > > On Apr 4, 2015, at 2:41 PM, WIld Cat <
>>>>> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > > Daren returned to the space about 20 mins after trying to
>>>>> re-enter
>>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> > > said to me " Do you want to go a couplwe blocks away
from here
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> handle
>>>>>
>>>>> > > this like an adult."
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Pidgen is claiming that I threatened her and I did tell
her
>>>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>> "you need
>>>>>
>>>>> > > to chill out or some shit is going to happen" but I
also
>>>>> clarified
>>>>>
>>>>> by
>>>>>
>>>>> > > saying "I am not threatening you with any form of
violence."
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Darin is claiming that Babs sexually assaulted someone but
>>>>> Darin
>>>>>
>>>>> did not
>>>>>
>>>>> > > give any details of what happened.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 2:00 PM, WIld Cat <
>>>>>
>>>>> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> > > wrote:
>>>>> > >> Today Pidgen was asked to leave in violation of the
safer
>>>>> spaces
>>>>>
>>>>> policy
>>>>>
>>>>> > >> on an admitted account of sexual assault in the past as
well
>>>>> as
>>>>>
>>>>> recent
>>>>>
>>>>> > >> behaviors of harassment. Daren was asked to leave in
>>>>> violation of
>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>> > >> safer
>>>>> > >> spaces policy by aggressive behavior (aggressive
swearing,
>>>>>
>>>>> intentional
>>>>>
>>>>> > >> misgendering, inappropriate sexual comments (Told me in
an
>>>>>
>>>>> aggressive way
>>>>>
>>>>> > >> that he liked phone sex, than began to yell at me.) He
has
>>>>> had a
>>>>>
>>>>> history
>>>>>
>>>>> > >> of
>>>>> > >> being banned from spaces for similar behaviors of
sexual
>>>>>
>>>>> harassment and
>>>>>
>>>>> > >> inappropriate behavior.
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> I would like to begin a mediation process for Daren and
I do
>>>>> not
>>>>>
>>>>> feel
>>>>>
>>>>> > >> safe with him being in the space during such process.
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> To my knowledge there is an ongoing mediation between
Pidgen
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> Centi.
>>>>>
>>>>> > >> that Pidgen has allegedly violated due to harassing
behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pidgen has
>>>>>
>>>>> > >> been banned from several other radical spaces for
entitlement
>>>>>
>>>>> problems -
>>>>>
>>>>> > >> theft - aggressive behaivor - accountability issues.
>>>>> > >> I do not feel safe in the presences of Pidgen and would
call
>>>>> on
>>>>> > >> the
>>>>> > >> community to permanently ban Pidgen.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > > sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> > > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> > > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sudo-discuss mailing list
>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org
>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss
>>>
>>
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