[sudo-discuss] Fwd: Today 4/4/15: Pidgen and Daren have been temp banned for safer spaces policy violations

sudo discuss so I'm unsubscribing from sudo discuss for a while because everyone keeps including sudo-discuss as if it somehow makes everything better. On Monday, April 06, 2015 11:59:40 AM Rachel Wolfsohn wrote: > This is very important to me, because I said I wouldn't keep including > sudo > discuss, and now i'm going back on that > but WildCat does keep including sudo-discuss, > so I feel like I can't leave it at some long email to one side bias, > whether mine or not > so I'm responding to sudo discuss > to be heard by the group who is already hearing this > > sigh, i'm sorry, but I'm upset now.... > > *People NEED to be given a chance to change. * > *Just because you knew someone for a long time and saw problematic > behavior > before doesn't mean they can't come to a new place, * > *and a reformed community, * > *where they can try to learn and grow. * > > *If people are not given a chance to grow what would you do with them?* > > * If you don't believe people can change, you don't believe in RJ or > TJ, * > *and I would LOVE to hear your alternative* > *to my eyes the only other options are punishment or annihilation, > like the > state does,* > * if you're really radical, you'll seek alternative forms of > resolution* > * besides exile, punishment and "training" people, * > *whenever possible. * > > *NOT ONCE have I seen you actually pursue mediation. * > > *IN FACT WildCAt is currently refusing to participate in more than one > mediation, * > *and while in some cases i actually agree with that other person being > banned, and see the issues clear* > * my problem wtih this is not about that person being banned,* > * I often think WildCat is right,* > * but it's about THE PROCESS AND RESPECTING IT* > > *You Still Have To Go To Mediation * > *In Some Case In Your Life, * > *If You Recognize The Process At All* > > *If You're Willing To Work On It, * > > *The Refusal Of Mediation Is There To Keep People Safe* > * In Dire Circumstances * > *Not In Any Case You Want* > * And Every Case All The Time* > * Because You Feel Like It And It's Your Privilege* > > *I don't feel like you're respecting that process....* > > PERSONALLY I feel: > Exile is not a real option for the world. If someone is continuously > exiled > and not educated and transforming, they will have no where else to go. > This > is part of the world, you can't just close yourself off from it and > ignore > people > > *If you want it to get better, really get better, judging people and > pushing them out is not the way to actually help it* > > *What would you do with them? * > *Put them all in one country? * > *Kind of like a concentration of them?* > * Like a camp? Kill them all off? **All bad ideas. * > > *We need to help people grow, and * > *if you consider yourself an organizer * > *or a helper of the world* > * it IS your job to help people grow a* > *nd give people another chance, * > *provided they seek new conditions that will faciiltate growth* > > *It has to come from them. Yes.* > *And it is coming from Darin, * > *however slowly he's learning* > > Btw "WildCat" You are not yet a member of sudo yet. > And you're scaring people, > with all your bans in a row all of a sudden, > > now that you think you have power > > *i'm not quitting, but this email put me back over, i'm taking another > break.* > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Cere Misc &lt;cere.misc(a)gmail.com&gt; > wrote: > >> PLEASE TAKE THIS OFF THE SUDO-DISCUSS LIST! >> >> On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 11:32 AM, WIld Cat < >> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com&gt; >> >> wrote: >> >>> Also with that one month ban I feel that from then on there would >>> need to >>> be zero tolerance for any of these behaviors to continue. Last time >>> I saw >>> him he challenged me to a fight by saying " do you want to walk a >>> couple >>> of >>> blocks away and handle this like an adult" and my response was to >>> walk >>> away.. someone brought up to me that I was causing drama by drawing >>> the >>> line with these people but what folks need to understand is that >>> each of >>> these people have been going through conflict mediation in this >>> space so >>> the drama is theirs not mine. I should not be the one to blame for >>> the >>> taking a stance against the problems these people are causing. >>> Though to >>> be >>> accountable in dealing with peoples issues I will gather more >>> members of >>> the space to address them. >>> >>> On Monday, April 6, 2015, WIld Cat &lt;wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com&gt; >>> wrote: >>> >>>> So I have known Darin for years and he has been called out for all >>>> of >>>> this behavior before and still hasn't learned. In terms of him >>>> misgendering >>>> me it seemed malicious because he accentuated " man" there were >>>> several >>>> witnesses to his extremely aggressive behavior that was a defensive >>>> response to me calmly asking why he was yelling at Babs. sexual >>>> harassment >>>> is not OK. I don't think you can speak for the other people who have >>>> called >>>> him out for inappropriate flirting. I had the conflict mediated by >>>> Joe >>>> but >>>> but still just acts the same to different people. I would propose a >>>> month >>>> ban at least so he gets that its not being accountable will have >>>> serious >>>> consequences. >>>> >>>> On Sunday, April 5, 2015, Rachel Wolfsohn &lt;rawjnana(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> This is the last email I will include sudodisxuss on for this >>>>> thread... >>>>> >>>>> Darin is currently undergoing mediation, and should be given the >>>>> chance >>>>> to do so before a ban goes through. >>>>> >>>>> I have a blocking concern for such a ban on darin.... >>>>> >>>>> My belief that darin can change enough, however slowly, is >>>>> justified >>>>> and potent. >>>>> >>>>> I have seen he already has. In front of me at least, he no longer >>>>> misgenders anyone, including those ppl he previously had, after we >>>>> discussed it one night. Even if he's pissed at them. An immediate >>>>> improvement from the heart and higher self layered under psychic >>>>> shit >>>>> like >>>>> we all have to deal with just like him, is what I see...He is >>>>> actively >>>>> working, works hard in general and physically protects ppl from >>>>> harassment >>>>> daily. >>>>> >>>>> Misgendering: >>>>> I too have been editing "he" for "them" with you Wildcat, because >>>>> your >>>>> gender pronoun is recent news to me as well as to many others. >>>>> I strive to use They, bc of respect for trans identity in general, >>>>> and >>>>> ALSO camaraderie with you. >>>>> But it takes a little time, and it is in good faith with continuous >>>>> editing on my part, as it is for others. >>>>> I'm really sorry you are hurt by misgendering and will do my best >>>>> to >>>>> correct the instances I witness. As I'm sure Darin will too, now >>>>> that >>>>> this >>>>> information is available >>>>> >>>>> Sexual Language: >>>>> Darin is working on this too. I have twice hung out with darin and >>>>> neded to comment on his comments, asking him to hold his tongue, >>>>> bc it >>>>> was >>>>> TMI about his sexual thoughts. >>>>> It was not safe space language, and I asked him to.hold his >>>>> tongue, but >>>>> not an implication of action either, more like expression. >>>>> Without FAIL he immediately apologizes and aims to hold back such >>>>> comments. He is actively learning what to reserve to his private >>>>> thoughts >>>>> and I appreciate it from the bottom of my heart... >>>>> >>>>> Thus, I have a blocking.concern for this ban suggested for Darin >>>>> >>>>> Love, seriously, love, >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Apr 05, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Torrie Fischer < >>>>> tdfischer(a)hackerbots.net&gt; wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Theres community issues, then theres "issues that involve the >>>>> hundreds >>>>> of >>>>> people subscribed to sudo-discuss". >>>>> >>>>> This is not one of those issues. I have no involvement with this. I >>>>> don't want >>>>> to get involved with this. I'd honestly rather not hear about who >>>>> is >>>>> fighting >>>>> who, or see people tearing down each other in public. I'd rather >>>>> just >>>>> hack a >>>>> thing and assume that Sudo Room is a happy cheery place that has >>>>> their >>>>> shit >>>>> together and everyone gets along. >>>>> >>>>> My Ƀ0.02. >>>>> >>>>> On Saturday, April 04, 2015 03:37:39 PM WIld Cat wrote: >>>>> > These are community issues not personal issues. >>>>> > >>>>> > On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 2:53 PM, Tracy Jacobs < >>>>> kinetical(a)comcast.net&gt; >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > > Sudoers, >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Respectfully can I suggest that you find another way to address >>>>> >>>>> issues of >>>>> >>>>> > > a personal nature and character assassinations or public >>>>> shaming >>>>> >>>>> other >>>>> >>>>> > > than >>>>> > > this public mailing list? Why anyone would want to go to Sudo >>>>> room >>>>> >>>>> after >>>>> >>>>> > > reading this mailing list is beyond my comprehension. And it >>>>> >>>>> really is a >>>>> >>>>> > > great place. Can anyone think of another venue for these types >>>>> of >>>>> > > discussions? >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Tracy >>>>> > > On Apr 4, 2015, at 2:41 PM, WIld Cat < >>>>> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > > Daren returned to the space about 20 mins after trying to >>>>> re-enter >>>>> >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> > > said to me " Do you want to go a couplwe blocks away from here >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> handle >>>>> >>>>> > > this like an adult." >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Pidgen is claiming that I threatened her and I did tell her >>>>> that >>>>> >>>>> "you need >>>>> >>>>> > > to chill out or some shit is going to happen" but I also >>>>> clarified >>>>> >>>>> by >>>>> >>>>> > > saying "I am not threatening you with any form of violence." >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Darin is claiming that Babs sexually assaulted someone but >>>>> Darin >>>>> >>>>> did not >>>>> >>>>> > > give any details of what happened. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > On Sat, Apr 4, 2015 at 2:00 PM, WIld Cat < >>>>> >>>>> wildcatofthewoods(a)gmail.com&gt; >>>>> >>>>> > > wrote: >>>>> > >> Today Pidgen was asked to leave in violation of the safer >>>>> spaces >>>>> >>>>> policy >>>>> >>>>> > >> on an admitted account of sexual assault in the past as well >>>>> as >>>>> >>>>> recent >>>>> >>>>> > >> behaviors of harassment. Daren was asked to leave in >>>>> violation of >>>>> >>>>> the >>>>> >>>>> > >> safer >>>>> > >> spaces policy by aggressive behavior (aggressive swearing, >>>>> >>>>> intentional >>>>> >>>>> > >> misgendering, inappropriate sexual comments (Told me in an >>>>> >>>>> aggressive way >>>>> >>>>> > >> that he liked phone sex, than began to yell at me.) He has >>>>> had a >>>>> >>>>> history >>>>> >>>>> > >> of >>>>> > >> being banned from spaces for similar behaviors of sexual >>>>> >>>>> harassment and >>>>> >>>>> > >> inappropriate behavior. >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> I would like to begin a mediation process for Daren and I do >>>>> not >>>>> >>>>> feel >>>>> >>>>> > >> safe with him being in the space during such process. >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> To my knowledge there is an ongoing mediation between Pidgen >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> Centi. >>>>> >>>>> > >> that Pidgen has allegedly violated due to harassing behavior. >>>>> >>>>> Pidgen has >>>>> >>>>> > >> been banned from several other radical spaces for entitlement >>>>> >>>>> problems - >>>>> >>>>> > >> theft - aggressive behaivor - accountability issues. >>>>> > >> I do not feel safe in the presences of Pidgen and would call >>>>> on >>>>> > >> the >>>>> > >> community to permanently ban Pidgen. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > > sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>> > > sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>> > > https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>>>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>>>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> sudo-discuss mailing list >>> sudo-discuss(a)lists.sudoroom.org >>> https://lists.sudoroom.org/listinfo/sudo-discuss >>> >>